TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

A8 (Australia) connects 2 cities with 726 km in between. Between them, the highway mostly only has 2 lanes. There isn't much other than mini farming towns (except some cities the size of Kenora and of Dryden), so I thought I would have been able to draw some analogy there.

As for the east side of Australia, the project to widen their Pacific Highway between Brisbane and Sydney is massive and covers hundreds of kilometers. Lol how does the country even have the political will to do it?

Then, between Sydney and Melbourne, there's a 4 lane divided freeway that spans 876 km, without much in between and with unfriendly terrain.

Overall, I was thinking, if Australia can do it, why can't Canada?

(This is in response to people saying that Australia and the Scandivanian countries don't have a pan-national 4 lane divided freeway either. Again, in the Scandivadian countries, we don't have much towards the north, whereas 17 is unique in that it links 2 sides of Canada together despite low usage. Perhaps this is where induced demand may work, although only a little bit.)

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

A8 (Australia) connects 2 cities with 726 km in between. Between them, the highway mostly only has 2 lanes. There isn't much other than mini farming towns (except some cities the size of Kenora and of Dryden), so I thought I would have been able to draw some analogy there.

As for the east side of Australia, the project to widen their Pacific Highway between Brisbane and Sydney is massive and covers hundreds of kilometers. Lol how does the country even have the political will to do it?

Then, between Sydney and Melbourne, there's a 4 lane divided freeway that spans 876 km, without much in between and with unfriendly terrain.

Overall, I was thinking, if Australia can do it, why can't Canada?

(This is in response to people saying that Australia and the Scandivanian countries don't have a pan-national 4 lane divided freeway either. Again, in the Scandivadian countries, we don't have much towards the north, whereas 17 is unique in that it links 2 sides of Canada together despite low usage. Perhaps this is where induced demand may work, although only a little bit.)

While Australia does have long freeways, they're connecting bigger cities. Sydney is ~5.1m and Brisbane is ~2.4m and they're separated by ~900km. What Australia has on their east coast is not unlike what we have in Eastern Canada - larger cities (Toronto, Montreal, Quebec City and Halifax) linked via an almost complete freeway.

What you keep on proposing is akin to putting a freeway across the Nullarbor plain, but somewhat shorter and worse terrain. Sure, that section of Canada has a few more towns and small cities than Australia, but there's not the traffic between them to justify such an expenditure, especially since there's a more convenient route from the populated eastern and western parts of the country to the south via the US, or by air.

Canada could do it. There's just no political will to do it, because it would be an extraordinary poor value for money. Aside from yourself and a few others, it's just not on the national (or provincial) agendas.

The central problem of government is how to allocate scarce resources - should we spend billions on a freeway in the middle of nowhere that isn't really needed, or rapid transit lines millions of passengers use across the country daily?

[Dengler Avenue]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=151987&page=49 #966
So what we heard from Wynne this May 3 was nothing new.
(Yes, I’m trying to read through all 60 pages of that thread.)

[roger1818]

I know this is slig off topic but IMHO, more important than building a freeway is to build a second highway west of Nipigon. It is disgraceful that there is a 180 km stretch where there is only highway in Canada that connects eastern and western Canada. If that highway has to close for some reason, the only detour is south of Lake Superior (only the world's largest freshwater lake by surface area).

[Dengler Avenue]

I wonder how feasible (in terms of engineering) it is to extend Highway 72 from Sioux Lookout along Via Rail and the north shore of Lake Nipigon, and join it with Highway 11 between Beardmore (funny name) and Jellicoe. There’s already a private log road between Armstrong and there.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I wonder how feasible (in terms of engineering) it is to extend Highway 72 from Sioux Lookout along Via Rail and the north shore of Lake Nipigon, and join it with Highway 11 between Beardmore (funny name) and Jellicoe. There’s already a private log road between Armstrong and there.

Interesting idea. By "Via Rail" I assume you mean CN's Allanwater and Kowkash Subdivisions. I had been looking at a way to join the eastern and western legs of Hwy 11, other than via 17 of course, but maybe that isn't necessary.

One advantage of your idea is that it will serve a bunch of small communities that currently are currently only accessible by rail. With a highway, VIA could probably reroute the Canadian to use the original (and more scenic) southern route along Lake Superior via Thunder Bay.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Interesting idea. By "Via Rail" I assume you mean CN's Allanwater and Kowkash Subdivisions. I had been looking at a way to join the eastern and western legs of Hwy 11, other than via 17 of course, but maybe that isn't necessary.

One advantage of your idea is that it will serve a bunch of small communities that currently are currently only accessible by rail. With a highway, VIA could probably reroute the Canadian to use the original (and more scenic) southern route along Lake Superior via Thunder Bay.

Like restoring passenger service in places like Nipigon, White River? That will be welcomed.

Obviously, with the government always neglecting the north, everything is but pure fantasy...

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Like restoring passenger service in places like Nipigon, White River? That will be welcomed.

White River does still limited passenger service to Sudbury, but you are right and the southern route would go through Nipigon. The current route between Sudbury and Winnipeg is dreadful. It was picked when service was cut for 2 reasons:

1. CN was a crown corporation at the time, so it was easier to get access to the track. This is no longer the case.
2. The communities don't have road access so need the rail as a lifeline. A new highway could fix this.

Obviously, with the government always neglecting the north, everything is but pure fantasy...

Agreed. I do think it is an issue of national security though only having a single pinch point connecting the east with the west. The other benefits are bonus.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I do think it is an issue of national security though only having a single pinch point connecting the east with the west.

Tell me about it...

CFB Borden and CFB Trenton are close enough to major freeways in case they're needed in GTA or Kingston, respectively. CFB Petawawa? What a joke, especially now that the rail tracks are gone. Hopefully with the military vehicles jamming up the highway these few days, the federal government will somehow come to senses and help out in extending 417.

As for the bottleneck in NWO, I wonder whether service roads next to a four-lane divided freeway (in the future, that is) would cut it.

Ps: After all, people are too used to peaceful time, eh? Then again, what would the WWI and WWII veterans think and how would they feel if WWIII breaks out in their life time...

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

A8 (Australia) connects 2 cities with 726 km in between. Between them, the highway mostly only has 2 lanes. There isn't much other than mini farming towns (except some cities the size of Kenora and of Dryden), so I thought I would have been able to draw some analogy there.

As for the east side of Australia, the project to widen their Pacific Highway between Brisbane and Sydney is massive and covers hundreds of kilometers. Lol how does the country even have the political will to do it?

Then, between Sydney and Melbourne, there's a 4 lane divided freeway that spans 876 km, without much in between and with unfriendly terrain.

Overall, I was thinking, if Australia can do it, why can't Canada?

(This is in response to people saying that Australia and the Scandivanian countries don't have a pan-national 4 lane divided freeway either. Again, in the Scandivadian countries, we don't have much towards the north, whereas 17 is unique in that it links 2 sides of Canada together despite low usage. Perhaps this is where induced demand may work, although only a little bit.)

Australia is a wealthier country. Australians also tend to be ambitious.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Australia is a wealthier country. Australians also tend to be ambitious.

They also don't have a complete freeway between the 4 largest cities on their east/southeast coast (~2600km). We almost have a complete one between Halifax, NS and Windsor, ON. (~2150km).

Also, we have to mention divided highways between the provincial border of Manitoba and the provincial border of British Columbia. Once you get past Adelaide, there's not much akin to that until you get into the Perth region.

I don't see Australians clamouring to build a freeway through the desert that will see minimal use. Sounds like another prudent nation to me.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2501412516552655&id=486724914688102

I wonder how the seeming inaction on Yakabuski’s part will get him kicked out of office...

[sonysnob]

Yakabuski was reshuffled out of office a few weeks ago due to a conflict of interest with his sister being the president of the Ontario Road Builder's Association.

Yakabuski is now the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry.

Jeff Yurek from Southwestern Ontario is now the Minister of Transportation.

[Dengler Avenue]

That I’m aware of. I’m just wondering what people’s reaction is.

Plus, I’ve never heard of that association before.

[sonysnob]

^ I would suspect that most of the electorate would have enough common sense not to be impatient with the now former Minister of Transportation not building 30km of new four lane highway within the first six months of being in office.

[sonysnob]

The Ministry is currently seeking a design consultant to design a pavement structure for the new four lane highway between Scheel Drive and Renfrew:

https://www.raqsa.mto.gov.on.ca/LOGIN/ra...ILE/REF%204018-E-0009%20Part%20A_TOR.pdf

Foundation Engineering services are required to support the detailed design of the twinning of Highway 17 for 22.5 km along the existing Highway 17 corridor, from Scheel Drive westerly to 3.0 km west of Bruce Street near the Town of Renfrew. The highway will be expanded from a two-lane controlled access highway to a full freeway configuration by converting the existing two lane highway into either the new eastbound or westbound lanes, and constructing the corresponding new lanes next to the existing highway. This foundation scope forms part of the “Part 1” of this RFP assignment.

The Ministry completed a Preliminary Design/Environmental Assessment study for Highway 17 twinning from the Town of Arnprior to the Town of Renfrew. The results are contained in the Preliminary Design Report (WP 647-92-00 Preliminary Design Report) referenced in other sections of this RFP. The PDR addressed two phases of the Highway 17 twinning assignment, Phase 1 (from County Road 29 to 3 km west of Bruce Street) and Phase 2 (from 3 km West of Bruce Street to Scheel Drive). This project scope is for detail design of Phase 2.

In addition, the Ministry also advanced/completed individual operations at few sites within the project limits and their reports are referenced in the RFP Reference Sections. All the existing reports/drawings shall be reviewed and utilized, as applicable, for this assignment. Phase 2 scope of the Highway 17 twinning requires foundation engineering services for the following foundation elements within the Township of McNab-Braeside and Horton:
a) Full Interchanges Construction/Reconstruction (including structures, ramps and associated service roads).
b) Grade Separated Crossings.
c) Waterway Crossings.
d) Culverts.
e) High Fills and Deep Cuts.
f) New Service Roads.
g) Stormwater Management Facilities.
h) Other Services.

The purpose of this assignment is to obtain sufficient foundation subsurface information and provide a detail design level foundation investigation and design recommendation to support the project requirements. Foundations Engineering Consultant Services required shall include the following tasks:
• compile and review existing subsurface information and site reconnaissance;
• conduct additional foundation field investigations and laboratory testing as specified;
• prepare Foundation Investigation and Design Reports and/or Technical Memoranda as specified;
• attend project meetings as specified;
• design support liaison; and
• develop and review contract package.

The minimum requirements for Foundation Engineering are outlined in Section 7.7.1.2 Technical Services Required (Terms of Reference ‘General’). Project-specific requirements are detailed in Section 7.7.1.3 Deliverables (Terms of Reference ‘Project Specific’) and shall govern where any conflict exists with Section 7.7.1.2 Technical Services Required. Further details pertaining to structure and roadway design as related to Foundations Engineering are found elsewhere in this Request for Proposal.

In order to ensure consistency and accountability, the MTO Designated Contact from the Foundations Engineering Geotechnical (Structures and Embankments) specialty must be identified as the lead person and the liaison for the Foundations Engineering services. The WO/WP/GWP number shall be included on the subject line of all correspondence with MTO

This pavement design project is supposed to be commenced in March of 2019.

[Dengler Avenue]

Thanks for sharing

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.kenorada...line-for-highway-17-twinning-emerges/amp

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.kenorada...line-for-highway-17-twinning-emerges/amp

Good to see progress on this.

[Dengler Avenue]

I was surprised that FN’s would “let this slip” since Freedom Road is technically still not done yet.