Oakridge Park | 13 Towers | 154m | 52fl | 5M sqft | U/C

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by rofina

Regardless if you agree or like what Ian has been able to turn Westbank into, its beyond doubt he has his finger on the pulse.

Their success in moving luxury units at astronomical prices is second to none.

Its obvious he knows who his clients are and what the likelihood of units selling is at a given price point.

Some other posters might be as old as me, and actually remember the Eighties. Japan Inc. was eating the West's lunch, biting into US manufacturing and buying up real estate everywhere.

Until one day they weren't.

Their stock market tanked and Japanese real estate crashed. Nobody really saw it coming, everyone assumed it would go on forever. Gillespie has done a great job at shilling real estate in China, but assuming the next 5 years will be exactly like the last is foolish.

[Metro-One]

The very eastern end of Alberni still has a few residuals left from this era. The Kobe Beef restaurant being one of them. If memory serves me correctly much of that area was once owned by Japanese interests.

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Some other posters might be as old as me, and actually remember the Eighties. Japan Inc. was eating the West's lunch, biting into US manufacturing and buying up real estate everywhere.

Until one day they weren't.

Their stock market tanked and Japanese real estate crashed. Nobody really saw it coming, everyone assumed it would go on forever. Gillespie has done a great job at shilling real estate in China, but assuming the next 5 years will be exactly like the last is foolish.

Exactly.

I know some people who purchased a presale at 220 Central Park South in New York early on at around mid 6k psf USD. The latest price amendments is at 10k+ psf USD.

They won't be able to complete as they're having difficult moving capital out and there's no assignments allowed with the developer even though there's lots of money to be made and long term, it's a winning proposition as it's the new "it" building on Billionaire's Row. They will forfeit their deposit to the tune of a nice house in Shaughnessy.


Westbank markets their projects in Asia as "make 100% roi on your deposit easily" and puts lots of emphasis on assignments and flipping as well as how one does not need to wait until completion to make money while exiting their contract (even though they are on the hook if the assignee doesn't complete).

The owners at Peterson have already expressed their concerns previously with regards to Chinese buyers moving capital out as well as local purchasers getting traditional financing. Notice how after Alberni by Kuma, you don't really see many Westbank and Peterson partnerships anymore.

[giallo]

A 650sqft apartment on the 27th floor could potentially cost me two million dollars? In Oakridge?

I really don't know what to say anymore. These prices are absolutely insane for a AA economy like Vancouver. A rich person's playground indeed.

[Tetsuo]

Isn't the site co-owned by Westbank and the RE arm of a BC public sector pension group?

At least the crazy prices might (indirectly) help some BCers, lol

[Homeowner]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

A one bedroom condo unit, especially outside of the downtown core, should be no more than 500,000.

Recent presales for 2 buildings (618 Carnarvon & Ovation), both near the pier/downtown New West & close to skytrain are selling numerous one beds for under $450k-500k range. No bridge to cross and seems pretty good value.

[Homeowner]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Westbank knows where to find a lot of corrupt money. It's their thing. They should be investigated.

No, it's just that Westbank's projects are overpriced. Remember "Joyce" project? Van east near Kingsway right beside skytrain.. They were asking $750,000 for a one bedroom.

[VanK]

Yes the actual prices in the price list are extremely high but lets not get over excited about someone posting that their one realtor told them $2,800 psf. Most of the rumors I have heard are in the overall $2,500 psf. (yes still high I know) but if you are comparing this vs Butterfly which was supposedly $3,300 psf, then that's a 25% discount to that building. Not everyone loves being downtown. Oakridge will be the primo development in the Westside of Vancouver on Canada Line. I get the cache. Maybe not $2,500 psf cache but I get the hype and why those with money will want to buy here.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The very eastern end of Alberni still has a few residuals left from this era. The Kobe Beef restaurant being one of them. If memory serves me correctly much of that area was once owned by Japanese interests.

There was a time in the 80s and early 90s when the Japanese were buying up everything in North America. Vancouver was also one of the hottest tourist destinations for them.

Along Alberni Street, the Carlyle used to house the Duty Free Store (DFS) owned by the Japanese. The current Michael's location also housed another duty free shop (Alders, Swiss-owned). Beside the Kobe Steak House there was the OK Gift Shop that's owned by the Japanese as well. This shop had since relocated to an obscure part of Pender Street. Back in the 90s coach-loads of older Japanese tourists would come by Alberni Street buying the luxury brands. Brand-name watches were one of the favourites. How times have changed.

Now most of the retail is targetting the Chinese, and I'm sure, the new Oakridge mall as well.

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by VanK

Yes the actual prices in the price list are extremely high but lets not get over excited about someone posting that their one realtor told them $2,800 psf. Most of the rumors I have heard are in the overall $2,500 psf. (yes still high I know) but if you are comparing this vs Butterfly which was supposedly $3,300 psf, then that's a 25% discount to that building. Not everyone loves being downtown. Oakridge will be the primo development in the Westside of Vancouver on Canada Line. I get the cache. Maybe not $2,500 psf cache but I get the hype and why those with money will want to buy here.

1.97m for 525 internal SF is over $3750 psf

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by bb1510

Exactly.

I know some people who purchased a presale at 220 Central Park South in New York early on at around mid 6k psf USD. The latest price amendments is at 10k+ psf USD.

They won't be able to complete as they're having difficult moving capital out and there's no assignments allowed with the developer. They will forfeit their deposit.


Westbank markets their projects in Asia as "make 100% roi on your deposit easily" and puts lots of emphasis assignments and flipping and how one does not need to wait until completion to make money and exit their contract (even though they are on the hook if the assignee doesn't complete).

The owners at Peterson have already expressed their concerns previously with regards to Chinese buyers moving capital out as well as local purchasers getting traditional financing. Notice how after Alberni by Kuma, you don't really see many Westbank and Peterson partnerships anymore.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, for sure.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by bb1510

Brace yourselves

What happened to the price list?

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by phesto

What happened to the price list?

I didn't do anything; probably the hosting server

I'll type it out instead since the resolution wasnt great in the first place

[bb1510]

Oakridge x Sergio Castiglia:

One Bedroom:__________Total Area (Int+Ext):__________From:________________To:
______________________From:________To:__________________________________________

FL 7 to 15______________629__________728___________.899,800______________1,399,800
FL 16 to 25_____________629__________677__________1,219,800______________1,809,800
FL 26 to 31_____________647__________663__________1,699,800______________1,989,800



Two Bedroom:__________Total Area (Int+Ext):__________From:________________To:
______________________From:________To:__________________________________________

FL 7 to 15______________1029_________1448_________1,429,800______________2,669,800
FL 16 to 25_____________1028_________1427_________2,259,800______________3,279,800
FL 26 to 31_____________1028_________1427_________2,699,800______________3,579,800



Three Bedroom:_________Total Area (Int+Ext):__________From:________________To:
______________________From:________To:__________________________________________

FL 18 to 25_____________1961_________1961_________3,719,800______________4,339,800
FL 26 to 31_____________1961_________1961_________4,409,800______________4,799,800




Oakridge x Piero Lissoni:

One Bedroom:__________Total Area (Int+Ext):__________From:________________To:
______________________From:________To:__________________________________________

FL 7 to 15______________618__________1068_________1,360,000______________1,640,000
FL 16 to 25_____________614__________849__________1,310,000______________1,850,000
FL 26 to 33_____________625__________733__________1,520,000______________1,980,000
FL 34 to 41_____________625__________868__________1,970,000______________2,070,000



Two Bedroom:__________Total Area (Int+Ext):__________From:________________To:
______________________From:________To:__________________________________________

FL 7 to 15______________925__________2208_________2,050,000______________4,320,000
FL 16 to 22_____________927__________1427_________2,430,000______________4,000,000
FL 23 to 30_____________944__________1462_________2,650,000______________3,700,000
FL 31 to 41_____________942__________1389_________2,650,000______________4,100,000



Three Bedroom:_________Total Area (Int+Ext):__________From:________________To:
______________________From:________To:__________________________________________

FL 7 to 16______________2101_________3187_________3,000,000______________5,019,800
FL 26 to 31_____________1802_________1848_________4,409,800______________4,379,800
FL 32 to 41_____________1780_________2237_________4,370,000______________5,770,000

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

quite the cost these places have. i don't know why anyone would want to pay those prices. doesn't matter if you can afford it, out of pride/spite people shouldn't buy these. jeez.

[bb1510]

Some more insights into Westbank x Peterson.

If you look at Peterson's current development portfolio and partnerships, it's all with up and coming/smaller scale developers as well as more accessible/mass market projects.

Peterson has been in the industry for two generations and many decades, developing some of the most valuable properties in Asia as well (39 Conduit Road in HK, the building notorious for skipping from 39 to 63, 66, 68, then 88A and 88B) while partnering with some of the largest developers in the world (Henderson Land Development).

The owners themselves have mentioned how the luxury market is not sustainable at the current rates and development isn't like what it's like in the past. It's all about accessibility in terms of pricing and lending now. While it is nice to develop and see high end products built and complete, there is a point when it's not sustainable and too risky and I trust their expertise given their experience.

While I applaud how Westbank has shaped the Vancouver skyline with their forward thinking ethos in terms of real estate development and how far they've come from the 90s, when you're actually relying on sales in Asia to bolster sale numbers (Alberni by Kuma and The Butterfly actually had many local buyers and I'm including local foreigners - landed immigrants who make money offshore) I'm not sure how well it'll end - and this is from numerous anecdotes from industry professionals, extremely wealthy investors, and large local developers alike.

While in cities like New York it may seem extremely expensive, at least the units' rental proformas and incomes somewhat align. The typical new, luxury developments there can yield 4-7% PA on rental income. Even those units on Billionaires Row where the PSF is above 6k USD can yield 3-3.5%.

When you start seeing 1.5-2.2% yields on what's not even consider the 'highest-end' development in the city, shouldn't it start raising red flags?

[VanK]

Originally Posted by bb1510

1.97m for 525 internal SF is over $3750 psf

Okay... Thats one unit. According to the price list, Floor 7, 1 bed, 629 sq.ft is $899,800 . = $1430 per square foot (including balcony). or a floor 7 2 bed 1,029 s.ft is starting at $1,429,800 which is $1,390 p/sft (including balcony).

We are however comparing overall building averages. but thanks for typing out the price list. Doing a rough weighted averages of all the sizes and prices in the price list, the building looks like its averaging $2,250 per square foot ( I know this is not an exact science) and also these include balconies and will increase the proper per square footages. Does anyone know what the rough balcony size is?

and again no I am not justifying the pricing just analyzing. It makes more sense to buy a single family detached home with land!!

[Vin]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

No no, you are the apologist idiot full of red herring arguments. I have just lost track of the number of times you are proven wrong about the realities of money laundering among other realities of living in this city.

You are officially #2 on my ignore list as you always go back to the beginning of all arguments on this forum and refuse to learn.

Bye Felicia.

Sweeping statement of me being proven wrong that I don't anything of. List them please.

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Westbank knows where to find a lot of corrupt money. It's their thing. They should be investigated.

So how do you know its corrupt money? Where are your sources? Making sweeping statements: that's your thing.

Originally Posted by Krissy

Please don't ignore Vin, he makes this forum that much more entertaining!

Glad I'm of good entertainment value to you, but please, don't waste your posts OK?

Originally Posted by bb1510

Exactly.

I know some people who purchased a presale at 220 Central Park South in New York early on at around mid 6k psf USD. The latest price amendments is at 10k+ psf USD.

They won't be able to complete as they're having difficult moving capital out and there's no assignments allowed with the developer even though there's lots of money to be made and long term, it's a winning proposition as it's the new "it" building on Billionaire's Row. They will forfeit their deposit to the tune of a nice house in Shaughnessy.


Westbank markets their projects in Asia as "make 100% roi on your deposit easily" and puts lots of emphasis on assignments and flipping as well as how one does not need to wait until completion to make money while exiting their contract (even though they are on the hook if the assignee doesn't complete).

The owners at Peterson have already expressed their concerns previously with regards to Chinese buyers moving capital out as well as local purchasers getting traditional financing. Notice how after Alberni by Kuma, you don't really see many Westbank and Peterson partnerships anymore.

Are you saying that all the investors from Asia are using laundered and corrupt money to invest in these Westbank properties as claimed by retro_orange?

Read the following. Seems to be a greedy but legal way to make money that angers Canadians, but nothing here mentions "corrupt and laundered money" coming in:
https://thetyee.ca/News/2018/06/15/Housing-Advocates-Developer-Westbank-Chinese-Website/

[seastar]

[QUOTE=VanK;8386291]Okay... Thats one unit. According to the price list, Floor 7, 1 bed, 629 sq.ft is $899,800 . = $1430 per square foot (including balcony). or a floor 7 2 bed 1,029 s.ft is starting at $1,429,800 which is $1,390 p/sft (including balcony).

Don't bother referencing to the 7th floor units and lowest price ones, these are all gone already. The cheapest one bedroom we were quoted on was 1.3 million and up.

S

[Vin]

[QUOTE=seastar;8386805]

Originally Posted by VanK

Okay... Thats one unit. According to the price list, Floor 7, 1 bed, 629 sq.ft is $899,800 . = $1430 per square foot (including balcony). or a floor 7 2 bed 1,029 s.ft is starting at $1,429,800 which is $1,390 p/sft (including balcony).

Don't bother referencing to the 7th floor units and lowest price ones, these are all gone already. The cheapest one bedroom we were quoted on was 1.3 million and up.

S

Originally Posted by bb1510

1.97m for 525 internal SF is over $3750 psf

I see huge discrepancies in pricing here. Just don't buy the expensive ones and they will lower the price. If there are foreign suckers buying it, then let them, cuz ultimately they need to sell at lower prices if they want to get rid of them.