London Roads

[ssiguy]

London is still quite built up but probably more importantly London doesn't have any big gaps within the city itself which plague US cities. Outside of parks or government owned lands, London is quite solid in it's development.

As far as LRT/BRT, London does, contrary to popular belief, have a strong downtown with quite a large office worker population. Far more than most cities London size save government towns. London's employment nodes are quite defined and not as spread out as many. This makes for far easier transit planning. Outside some industry in the east end and suburban retail, most employment in London is centred around downtown, UWO, Fanshawe, and London HSS at Well & Comm.

[Pimpmasterdac]

More roundabouts on the way for London. Civic Works Committee approved one at the intersection at Wonderland & Sunningdale. It'll cost ~$1 million to install, which is more than normal lights to install but has no operating cost and is cheaper in the long run. As well it will be expandable to 2 lanes whenever Sunningdale is widened. There's also plans to install another roundabout at Adelaide & Sunningdale.

Hopefully council installs more roundabouts at intersections more in-city. Lots of unusual/weird intersection of 2 or 3 streets in London that could use them!

Official Roundabout Plans: http://sire.london.ca/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=112306
CTV2 Report: http://london.ctvnews.ca/roundabout-coming-to-north-london-intersection-1.1447057

[MolsonExport]

^a welcome bit of good news.

[haljackey]

I don't always read the LFP, and when I do its rare for me to read the editorials, but this guy is sport on.

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London stuck in 1950s

I see that the resurfacing of Oxford St. is nearly complete. All we are waiting for now is the curb-protected bicycle lanes to encourage cyclists, the wider sidewalks to encourage street life, the on-street parking to support local business and the light- rail transit down the redundant left turn lanes.

Oh wait! Silly me. I live in London, Ont., not Copenhagen, not London, England, not even Toronto or Ottawa. No, I live in a city where road and traffic plans are marching resolutely into the 1950s.

Well, at least there are no large institutions on north Richmond St. or Oxford E. that could be served by sensible transit. Oh, wait . . .

Brian Kellow

London

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http://www.lfpress.com/2013/09/09/letters-to-the-editor-sept-10-2

[MolsonExport]

^great letter.

[ssiguy]

Roundabouts have become very common out here and even at freeway interchanges.

I think they are a great idea.........they slow speeding traffic yet keep all directions moving and can be made to be very attractive........even in the suburbs.

[K85]

Welp, looks like Wharncliffe is now under the construction mood as well.

[can00k]

Originally Posted by K85

Welp, looks like Wharncliffe is now under the construction mood as well.

Yeah, stay away from Wharncliffe between Commissioners and Horton during peak times for the next few weeks.

It's too bad there isn't space to widen Wharncliffe there to allow for a shared left turn lane. I hate when people try to turn left and back up traffic for blocks.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by can00k

Yeah, stay away from Wharncliffe between Commissioners and Horton during peak times for the next few weeks.

It's too bad there isn't space to widen Wharncliffe there to allow for a shared left turn lane. I hate when people try to turn left and back up traffic for blocks.

That's why it was rated as one of Ontario's worst roads: http://caaworstroads.com/home/index/9

I believe this resurfacing project wasn't scheduled until 2015, but was done this year after the road made the failing grade. This project will fix the road's poor shape but not it's overall efficiency. I wish it could have centre turn lane or a median all the way between Commissioners and Horton too.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by can00k

Yeah, stay away from Wharncliffe between Commissioners and Horton during peak times for the next few weeks.

It's too bad there isn't space to widen Wharncliffe there to allow for a shared left turn lane. I hate when people try to turn left and back up traffic for blocks.

There's quite a few intersections along Wharncliffe that I would say should not allow left turns at all.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Indeed Wharncliffe is quite bad between Baseline & Elmwood, the 4 lanes they have already are quite narrow and have way too many side streets to turn onto, much worse that Richmond north of Oxford. London's at least lucky, south of Baseline they have good 5 lane set up since the old London and Lake Erie Railway ran parallel to Wharncliffe. When it went under city got the land and nice wide 5 lane set up.

Not much can be done at this point, road is already on peoples front yards and doubtful city will expropriate few dozen houses for a turn lane.. Then the outdated CN underpass with 3 lane setup that forces Wharncliffe to bottleneck badly. If it was even 4 lanes continuous from start of Western rd would be a huge improvement!

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Indeed Wharncliffe is quite bad between Baseline & Elmwood, the 4 lanes they have already are quite narrow and have way too many side streets to turn onto, much worse that Richmond north of Oxford. London's at least lucky, south of Baseline they have good 5 lane set up since the old London and Lake Erie Railway ran parallel to Wharncliffe. When it went under city got the land and nice wide 5 lane set up.

That's interesting, I was unaware of the London and Lake Erie Railway until now. When did it go under? I've never seen it on any maps.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

That's interesting, I was unaware of the London and Lake Erie Railway until now. When did it go under? I've never seen it on any maps.

If I recall correctly it was abandoned about 100 years ago.

I would have thought that the wide ROW for Wharncliffe Road south of Base Line Road was because it was a provincial highway (Highways 2 & 4) for many years, and was rural up until the 1950s.

[Pimpmasterdac]

L&LE went under 1918, it was in operations for under 20 years. It was the first electric interurban railway company and it served only passengers unlike the L&PS. It had a very meandering route which was good for the 'suburbs' of 1900s London but poor for long distance, as it also ended in Port Stanley and served rural areas that L&PS had a more direct route.

It was never financially stable, went though different owners. Once L&PS electrified it was the death knell for L&LE. The city initially wanted the whole trackage and would've added it as a second route of the L&PS but owners wanted more money, L&PS balked at the price and instead the line was sold in a peace-meal fashion, with the city getting land in lieu of unpaid taxes.

Some parts of the trackage ROW are still visible, where Richmond crosses the Thames south branch by Labatt's, the L&LE had the ROW and predate the road bridge. The original abutments are still intact just east of the current bridge. Richmond/Belgrave jog exists because of the ROW change sides of the street. Baseline jogs and has extra southside parking west of Rideout on the old ROW and finally Wharncliffe south of Baseline had the ROW follow it into Lambeth.
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Here's a map of the Rail routes, L&LE in red, L&PS in Blue.

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

That's interesting, I was unaware of the London and Lake Erie Railway until now. When did it go under? I've never seen it on any maps.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

If I recall correctly it was abandoned about 100 years ago.

I would have thought that the wide ROW for Wharncliffe Road south of Base Line Road was because it was a provincial highway (Highways 2 & 4) for many years, and was rural up until the 1950s.

[ssiguy]

That's interesting, I had never heard of that rail line.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

L&LE went under 1918, it was in operations for under 20 years. It was the first electric interurban railway company and it served only passengers unlike the L&PS. It had a very meandering route which was good for the 'suburbs' of 1900s London but poor for long distance, as it also ended in Port Stanley and served rural areas that L&PS had a more direct route.

It was never financially stable, went though different owners. Once L&PS electrified it was the death knell for L&LE. The city initially wanted the whole trackage and would've added it as a second route of the L&PS but owners wanted more money, L&PS balked at the price and instead the line was sold in a peace-meal fashion, with the city getting land in lieu of unpaid taxes.

Some parts of the trackage ROW are still visible, where Richmond crosses the Thames south branch by Labatt's, the L&LE had the ROW and predate the road bridge. The original abutments are still intact just east of the current bridge. Richmond/Belgrave jog exists because of the ROW change sides of the street. Baseline jogs and has extra southside parking west of Rideout on the old ROW and finally Wharncliffe south of Baseline had the ROW follow it into Lambeth.
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Here's a map of the Rail routes, L&LE in red, L&PS in Blue.

Fascinating!

Thanks for filling me in on the London and Lake Erie Railway. Those maps really demonstrate how St. Thomas was a true railway city back in the day! The number of railway lines passing through the city is staggering. Makes me wonder why it didn't become a larger city though. Just imagine if St. Thomas was at least twice the size it is today, and Port Stanley was larger too. London would have a legitimate metro area all the way south to Lake Erie!

Anyways, sorry for getting the thread off topic.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Welcome!

One of those what if's that could've changed things dramatically. St. Thomas was the railway king, and now it's a pittance in the scheme of things. If L&PS had acquired all or a portion of L&LE route, it could've changed how modern south London and area was developed, as well as London's importance. L&PS might not have faded into the sunset in 1957, perhaps still been in operation when the St. Lawrence Seaway opened and given the railway a new market and additional revenues.

But in the end, all it amounted to was a nice parking lane are along Baseline and a widened Wharncliffe south of Baseline..

[haljackey]

Nice little piece of information. Thanks for sharing!

[haljackey]

By the way, the work on Warncliffe is just curb patch work. The resurfacing won't come until 2015. Looks like it might climb CAA's worst roads list over the next year or two.

One solution to the left turning issue is to add a centre median similar to Highway 24 in Cambridge. In order to turn left, you would have to turn right on a intersecting road with traffic lights and u-turn to turn left from there. (Highway 24 permits U-turns on the road itself.)
-Businesses will hate it, but it is one way of increasing capacity and efficiency.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

By the way, the work on Warncliffe is just curb patch work. The resurfacing won't come until 2015. Looks like it might climb CAA's worst roads list over the next year or two.

One solution to the left turning issue is to add a centre median similar to Highway 24 in Cambridge. In order to turn left, you would have to turn right on a intersecting road with traffic lights and u-turn to turn left from there. (Highway 24 permits U-turns on the road itself.)
-Businesses will hate it, but it is one way of increasing capacity and efficiency.

I think it's a good idea. I think businesses would be bothered more if it meant losses of on-street parking, which isn't the case here.

Another possibility is to have reversible lanes, based on time of day. During the morning rush, there would be three northbound lanes and one southbound, with the leftmost northbound lane allowing left turns. During afternoon rush, three southbound lanes and one northbound. At all other times, traffic flow as it is now.