Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 389

New Brisavoine · #**7761** Posted **Mar 31, 2024, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

Not officially, no. However there were a significant number of French speaking Huguenots that moved to South Africa under Dutch Colonial rule in the late 1600s. At the time the Cape Colony population was strictly regulated to maintain it as a more of a replenishment point for shipping than a true settlement. Most were involved in agriculture as lands around Franschhoek (French Corner) and Stellenbosch were opening up, and in particular with the wine-making industry (the Dutch were never great at it).

However the use of French was only really tolerated by the Dutch and all schooling etc. had to be conducted in Dutch / later Afrikaans. A lot of familiar Afrikaans surnames have their history in French such as De Klerk (Le Clercq) and Du Preez (Du Pre) while others remain as is (du Plessis, du Toit). Most became fully integrated with Afrikaner society and made up at least some of the settlers leaving the Cape Colony during the Great Trek, while others remained in the Western Cape under British rule. There's a monument in the Johannesburg Botanical Gardens close to where I lived commemorating the Hugenuot Trekkers.

I know. There was even a popular TV series in France about that.

• Video Link

But what the authors of that diatribe were clumsily trying to evoke was Rwanda, not South Africa.

Acajack · #**7762** Posted **Apr 1, 2024, 7:03 PM**

Been wondering if ROCer kids in school today have cut out paper fish they secretly stick on their classmates' backs as a joke?

New Brisavoine · #**7763** Posted **Apr 1, 2024, 7:41 PM**

Not a holiday today in Canada?

In very Republican, secular France, lundi de Pâques is a holiday. All schools closed (except the Jewish school next to my place).

Acajack · #**7764** Posted **Apr 1, 2024, 10:17 PM**

Demographic predictions are still calling for the number of francophones in the world to double from around 350 million to over 700 million by the 2060s.

Québec only needs one hundredth of 1% of them to move here annually to sustain itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You fail to understand the role of English in India and how similar it was to French in Africa. Especially in southern India where Hindi is about as foreign to them as any European language. If the argument is that English is going to disappear because Indians are going to be assertive with their local languages (something I disputed because of what I have observed with my own relatives), then the same logic should hold with French in Africa. Your logic flip flops based on whatever suits your argument. That's why I said you're full of it.

The big difference between India and Africa? Indians aren't actively hostile against the Brits today, the way that Africans are turning on the French. Use of English is much less of a political issue in India than French in Africa. India has no backlash like this:

• Video Link

And let's be honest the use of French is highly tied to economic connections. The end of the CFA system may well mean the end of French on Africa. No different than French in Vietnam. By contrast, English in India has persisted largely because it's valuable economically in the post-colonial era.

Truenorth00 · #**7765** Posted **Apr 2, 2024, 12:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Demographic predictions are still calling for the number of francophones in the world to double from around 350 million to over 700 million by the 2060s.

Québec only needs one hundredth of 1% of them to move here annually to sustain itself.

I suspect those projections kind of rely heavily on French Africa continuing with the status quo. Would they hold if we see cultural changes with the geopolitical changes we're seeing?

Broadly, it's not the numbers I worry about. Zero doubt there's enough Developing World francophones to populate the immigration pipeline for at least a few decades. It's quality that I wonder about, if numbers start to be more limited. See the quality of immigration in English Canada recently as we've expanded immigration for an example of what happens when selectivity is lower.

Acajack · #**7766** Posted **Apr 2, 2024, 12:37 AM**

Good point about quality immigrants but I think our slippage is more about us fast tracking and cutting corners than about the quality of people looking to change countries.

Education levels are increasing in just about every developing country, so the future prospects are still good on that front.

And I definitely was thinking that even if francophone Africa doesn't boom as predicted, it's still a tiny fraction that we need anyway. You'd be surprised at the range of countries from all over that send people to Quebec already knowing French.

It's still the second most taught second language in the world after English. Ahead of Spanish.

Acajack · #**7767** Posted **Apr 2, 2024, 12:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Not a holiday today in Canada?

In very Republican, secular France, lundi de Pâques is a holiday. All schools closed (except the Jewish school next to my place).

The Easter holidays (Good Friday and Easter Monday) vary a lot from province to province and sector to sector, so I've lost track.

In a lot cases both days are holidays, but in others it's only one of the two.

New Brisavoine · #**7768** Posted **Apr 2, 2024, 8:33 PM**

Justin Trudeau on French TV tonight! Someone should inform him that "fumer du 'pot' dans un parc" is not how you're supposed to say it in France (I'm not even sure it's supposed to be used in "proper" French in Québec). "Fumer un joint dans un parc" is the way to say it.

Is it me or does he dye his hair black?

(I've always found old men dying their hair a bit gross...)

Acajack · #**7769** Posted **Apr 2, 2024, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Justin Trudeau on French TV tonight! Someone should inform him that "fumer du 'pot' dans un parc" is not how you're supposed to say it in France (I'm not even sure it's supposed to be used in "proper" French in Québec). "Fumer un joint dans un parc" is the way to say it.

Is it me or does he dye his hair black?

(I've always found old men dying their hair a bit gross...)

He might say that here and everyone would understand but even for us it wouldn't be considered very prime ministerial. Though some politicians (including him) might do it on occasion to show that they're on the same level as the common man.

kwoldtimer · #**7770** Posted **Apr 2, 2024, 9:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Justin Trudeau on French TV tonight! Someone should inform him that "fumer du 'pot' dans un parc" is not how you're supposed to say it in France (I'm not even sure it's supposed to be used in "proper" French in Québec). "Fumer un joint dans un parc" is the way to say it.

Is it me or does he dye his hair black?

(I've always found old men dying their hair a bit gross...)

I think he does - his beard is quite salt and pepper.

Truenorth00 · #**7771** Posted **Apr 2, 2024, 10:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Easter holidays (Good Friday and Easter Monday) vary a lot from province to province and sector to sector, so I've lost track.

In a lot cases both days are holidays, but in others it's only one of the two.

Quebec is the exception to making it a choice between Good Friday and Easter Monday. Rest of the country has Good Friday as a stat and Easter Monday as a federal and school holiday.

Loco101 · #**7772** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 4:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

He might say that here and everyone would understand but even for us it wouldn't be considered very prime ministerial. Though some politicians (including him) might do it on occasion to show that they're on the same level as the common man.

He's also the first PM when describing an awful situation by saying "it sucks."

I would love for him to say "tabarnak" or "câlice" when speaking in French.

Acajack · #**7773** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 1:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Quebec is the exception to making it a choice between Good Friday and Easter Monday. Rest of the country has Good Friday as a stat and Easter Monday as a federal and school holiday.

What is the difference between a stat and a federal & school holiday?

Acajack · #**7774** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 3:06 PM**

Quebec sucking again...

Self-assessment of personal financial situation

https://twitter.com/gobeillades/status/1775155010835202431/photo/1

Zeej · #**7775** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 3:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec sucking again...

Self-assessment of personal financial situation

https://twitter.com/gobeillades/status/1775155010835202431/photo/1

Uh oh equalization payments....

Acajack · #**7776** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 3:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeej

Uh oh equalization payments....

Must be it...

Acajack · #**7777** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 6:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

He's also the first PM when describing an awful situation by saying "it sucks."

I would love for him to say "tabarnak" or "câlice" when speaking in French.

For some reason it can come across as unnatural when Justin Trudeau uses Québécois slang.

It worked for Jack Layton with a heavy anglo accent, and for someone like Brian Mulroney who had no anglo accent in French.

But oddly enough JT has a bit of trouble pulling it off.

New Brisavoine · #**7778** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 9:27 PM**

Your article-in-the-French-media du jour (or du soir rather here).

Quote:

Face à la «menace» de l’anglais, le Québec défend ardemment la langue française

Le Figaro

ENTRETIEN - Benoît Dubreuil, le commissaire à la langue française du Québec, revient sur la situation linguistique de la province canadienne, et ses nombreux défis.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/langue-francaise...d-ardemment-la-langue-francaise-20240320

New Brisavoine · #**7779** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

But oddly enough JT has a bit of trouble pulling it off.

His socks also tend to distract from the message. In that interview on French TV, he kept touching his odd socks (one ankle over the other leg, and casually touching those oddly patterned socks). Not the first time I notice he wears some weird socks. Here that wouldn't be considered serious.

Acajack · #**7780** Posted **Apr 3, 2024, 9:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

His socks also tend to distract from the message. In that interview on French TV, he kept touching his odd socks (one ankle over the other leg, and casually touching those oddly patterned socks). Not the first time I notice he wears some weird socks. Here that wouldn't be considered serious.

What network was he on?