Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Echoes]

To be fair, SaskTel Centre serves more of a purpose than just hosting our WHL team.

To my earlier point, Saskatoon's arena is the primary indoor facility for concerts, entertainment, and indoor events for Saskatchewan. The facility is well-used and profitable. It's also approaching 40 years old, which is not ancient by any stretch, but it is coming to the age where a decision needs to be made about its future. The concourses, bathrooms, and concession facilities are inadequate. The height of the ceiling is putting it at a disadvantage for touring acts and their rigging needs. The suburban location does not produce spinoff benefits for urban vibrancy, bar and restaurant patronization, etc. If a new arena is, say, 10 years from doors opening then our current facility will be approaching 50 years old.

Saskatoon could renovate SaskTel Centre, but that would double down on its awful location in an industrial area past the airport, and wouldn't leverage tax lift from downtown development to help pay for it. Securing partner funding for an un-sexy renovation is also tougher.

The city's convention facilities are also showing their age and inadequacy for current needs.

Thus, the arena/convention centre/downtown revitalization scheme. I'm not saying it's not a total moonshot, because it is. But there's been a lot more thinking that's gone into this around Saskatoon's, and Saskatchewan's, needs for these facilities than merely jumping on a sports and conventions bandwagon.

It's also not putting all our eggs in one basket. Saskatoon has recently made other strategic investments in quality of life with the art gallery, central library, bus rapid transit system. The Meewasin river valley is up for national urban park status. Saskatoon is thinking seriously about its future, and there's ambition here, even if our reach may be exceeding our grasp in places.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Echoes

To be fair, SaskTel Centre serves more of a purpose than just hosting our WHL team.

To my earlier point, Saskatoon's arena is the primary indoor facility for concerts, entertainment, and indoor events for Saskatchewan. The facility is well-used and profitable. It's also approaching 40 years old, which is not ancient by any stretch, but it is coming to the age where a decision needs to be made about its future. The concourses, bathrooms, and concession facilities are inadequate. The height of the ceiling is putting it at a disadvantage for touring acts and their rigging needs. The suburban location does not produce spinoff benefits for urban vibrancy, bar and restaurant patronization, etc. If a new arena is, say, 10 years from doors opening then our current facility will be approaching 50 years old.

Saskatoon could renovate SaskTel Centre, but that would double down on its awful location in an industrial area past the airport, and wouldn't leverage tax lift from downtown development to help pay for it. Securing partner funding for an un-sexy renovation is also tougher.

The city's convention facilities are also showing their age and inadequacy for current needs.

Thus, the arena/convention centre/downtown revitalization scheme. I'm not saying it's not a total moonshot, because it is. But there's been a lot more thinking that's gone into this around Saskatoon's, and Saskatchewan's, needs for these facilities than merely jumping on a sports and conventions bandwagon.

It's also not putting all our eggs in one basket. Saskatoon has recently made other strategic investments in quality of life with the art gallery, central library, bus rapid transit system. The Meewasin river valley is up for national urban park status. Saskatoon is thinking seriously about its future, and there's ambition here, even if our reach may be exceeding our grasp in places.

Oh that's for sure... I saw Arcade Fire, Feist, and Kanye West at the SaskTel Centre back in the day, and it's a great facility, but it still seems insane for them to build another NHL calibre arena when there's still no NHL team in sight for Saskatoon. Though, maybe the difference between a 10,000 capacity arena and 15,000 capacity arena isn't that much and it's not that crazy.

I do get the benefit of going with a downtown facility, especially if it's accompanied with ambitious mixed use developments. Bad location or not, I just don't like the idea of demolishing what I still see as a perfectly fine arena, but I guess I haven't been inside of the SaskTel Centre since like 2011 or something.

Nothing wrong with a moonshot, but still, for $1 billion, I think Saskatoon could get a lot more bang for their buck in terms of mixed use developments downtown... try to limit the renovations of the SaskTel Centre to under $100 million or something? Maybe renovating SaskTel Centre could help them lure an AHL team to Saskatoon, which could become the Oiler's new farm team.

I also think it's ridiculous that the province of Quebec built an NHL calibre arena in Quebec City for a team that might not ever come back, but refused to fund a new ballpark for an MLB team that never would have left in the first place had they funded the plans to build a new ballpark.

_____

...and going back to the CFL for a moment, and the prospect for CFL expansion into the Maritimes. I really do find the Saint John vs Moncton rivalry to be similar to the Regina vs Saskatoon rivalry, and think a New Brunswick branded CFL team in Moncton could be well supported across the province... probably not as rabidly supported as the Riders, but NB has Fredericton too, and many other smaller cities and towns, much like Sask has.

Saskatoon and Regina have a rivalry, but people from Saskatoon still come out to support the Riders, and not just in Regina, but all over Canada... they buy the merch, they follow the team closely, and they are rabid supporters, despite their city's rivalry with Regina.

If there was no Saskatchewan Roughriders, I very much doubt many people in Saskatchewan would travel all the way to Calgary, Winnipeg, or Edmonton to see a game if there was a team called the Prairie Thunder lol. I guess I just think a CFL expansion to the maritimes that only puts a team in Halifax called the Atlantic Schooners is a really bad idea, since if there was actually a CFL team in Winnipeg called the Prairie Thunder, almost no one from Saskatchewan would ever consider driving to Winnipeg to see a CFL football game, and very few Saskatchewanians would have any sort of affinity for the team or follow it simply because it was a CFL team for "the prairies".

So, I totally get Saskatoon wanting to build a new, state of the art hockey hockey arena, I just hope they don't tear down the SaskTel Centre once a new downtown arena does finally get built. Rename it the Gordie Howe Arena and try and keep it in use for a long as possible. In most cities it would be ridiculous to have two major hockey arenas, but not Saskatoon. Regina could follow suit too, though I'm not sure the Brand Centre is worth saving.

[Dalreg]

Renovating in Saskatoon is not a long term solution. Lipstick on the pig is still a pig and in this instance the pig is in the wrong location.

Lots of negatives from people outside of Saskatoon and Saskatchewan are against this arena. Not sure why.

[Djeffery]

I don't know what the arena portion of that billion is, but maybe they should look at a renovation of SaskTel for the big events and building a proper WHL size arena downtown as part of this project? Probably do that for a lot less than the cost of an NHL scale arena downtown, depending of course on how crazy they want to go on each project. Or do the NHL size arena downtown, I don't really care, not my money lol.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I don't know what the arena portion of that billion is, but maybe they should look at a renovation of SaskTel for the big events and building a proper WHL size arena downtown as part of this project? Probably do that for a lot less than the cost of an NHL scale arena downtown, depending of course on how crazy they want to go on each project. Or do the NHL size arena downtown, I don't really care, not my money lol.

I think a big unstated part of why many in Saskatoon want a fancy, new downtown arena is to keep up with Regina and their world class football stadium for the Riders, even though the Brandt Centre, home of the WHL's Regina Pats, is a dump compared to the SaskTel Centre.

Having the bigger, better hockey arena has long been something Saskatoon has had over Regina, and if they play their cards right, Saskatoon could end up having two bigger and better arenas than Regina's Brandt Centre (aka the Agridome).

I just think it would be a terrible waste to see an arena as nice as the SaskTel Centre demolished in a city as hockey crazy as Saskatoon. Gordie Howe's ashes are buried outside the SaskTel Centre and Saskatoon was his hometown, and maybe the arena could be renamed one final time in honour of Gordie Howe.

I think it's a completely reasonable suggestion to build a 10-12k capacity downtown arena and also renovate the SaskTel Centre.



The Ralph Engelstad Arena at the University of North Dakota (pictured above, capacity 11,640) has been described by many as one of the finest hockey arenas in the world, and the not so great one himself even went as far to describe it as, "one of the most beautiful buildings we have in North America."

I guess it was built at a cost of around $100 million in 2001, and utilized some very high end finishes not typically seen in even NHL arenas... so maybe Saskatoon could build something with a comparable design with less high end finishes and still have a budget leftover for renovating and maintaining the Sasktel Centre. I could see the SaskTel Centre remaining as profitable venue for larger concerts, hockey tournaments, basketball, lacrosse, or the return of SJHL hockey to Saskatoon, which is one the best junior hockey leagues in the world outside of the CHL.

The hometown of Gordie Howe deserves a modern, world class arena downtown, I just really hope they don't demolish the SaskTel Centre in the process.



A full house watched the Regina Pats face the Saskatoon Blades at SaskTel Centre on March 19, 2023. (Steve Hiscock/Saskatoon Blades)



The interior of SaskTel Centre prior to a Saskatchewan Rush game.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I don't know what the arena portion of that billion is, but maybe they should look at a renovation of SaskTel for the big events and building a proper WHL size arena downtown as part of this project? Probably do that for a lot less than the cost of an NHL scale arena downtown, depending of course on how crazy they want to go on each project. Or do the NHL size arena downtown, I don't really care, not my money lol.

Lets set the record straight. Sasktel was the last of the generic cookie cutter arenas built in Canada. It will not be renovated short of blowing it up and starting from scratch. I have been to many different sporting events and concerts in that arena over the year. Way to cramped for capacity crowds.

It will be replaced by a NHL sized arena downtown, that's a good thing. My taxes will help pay for that, that's a good thing.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Lets set the record straight. Sasktel was the last of the generic cookie cutter arenas built in Canada. It will not be renovated short of blowing it up and starting from scratch. I have been to many different sporting events and concerts in that arena over the year. Way to cramped for capacity crowds.

It will be replaced by a NHL sized arena downtown, that's a good thing. My taxes will help pay for that, that's a good thing.

Is an NHL sized facility not a waste of money though? Saskatoon is never getting an NHL team - at least not until the metro gets near to a million.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Is an NHL sized facility not a waste of money though? Saskatoon is never getting an NHL team - at least not until the metro gets near to a million.

An arena has other uses than hockey. Sasktel Centre being the size it is has its benefits. It helps convince tours and other shows to have a Saskatchewan stop rather than be a fly over province. It allows Saskatoon to feasibly host larger events that otherwise only go to NHL markets. The city has proven that an arena this size suits its needs well.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Lets set the record straight. Sasktel was the last of the generic cookie cutter arenas built in Canada. It will not be renovated short of blowing it up and starting from scratch. I have been to many different sporting events and concerts in that arena over the year. Way to cramped for capacity crowds.

It will be replaced by a NHL sized arena downtown, that's a good thing. My taxes will help pay for that, that's a good thing.

I really think maintaining Sasktel Centre (and maybe renaming it the Gordie Howe Arena) while also investing in a more reasonably sized downtown arena is a better plan.

Like, Saskatoon isn't going to grow into an NHL market by the time this new, downtown arena reaches its expiry date either, so it just seems excessive to spend a huge amount more on a 16,000+ seat hockey rink, when they could build something really nice with around 10,000 seats for a lot less, without demolishing Sasktel Centre.

Personally, I think an NHL team could actually work in Saskatoon (if they called them the Saskatchewan Roughriders) because Sask is that crazy for the Riders and Sask probably is the most hockey crazy province in all of Canada... but the NHL doesn't think that way.

Regina's stadium for the Riders being largely funded by taxpayers was incredibly divisive and many people were against the idea from the get go, even some very big Rider fans. Maybe I'm overestimating how much less it is to build a 10,000 or so arena is compared to an NHL scale 16,000+ arena, but I'm sure it would be quite a lot less.

Still think it's outrageous that Regina built the nicest football stadium in the country and couldn't even get a single World Cup match out of it. Yes, I've heard all the "not enough hotels" argument, but I counter that with there's more than enough Rider Fans across the province to fill up their stadium for a few football matches in the world's biggest sporting event.

Canadians was let down by Toronto and Vancouver getting all the matches, but I get that's mostly due to FIFA and their excessive requirements for host cities.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Maybe I'm overestimating how much less it is to build a 10,000 or so arena is compared to an NHL scale 16,000+ arena, but I'm sure it would be quite a lot less.

If you listen to Ottawa, it's apparently $100 million more to go from 6000 to 8000 seats lol. Back when London built what is now Canada Life Place, it was something like $40 million 25 years ago for the 9000 seats we got. The question was asked about making it larger and they said something along the lines of 50% more seats was more than double the cost. Something I think many wished today they had decided to do. As it was, the London Knights already thought 9000 was way too many seats (coming from their tiny 5000 seat arena out in the sticks) although I think they too in hindsight wish they had that 50% more.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I really think maintaining Sasktel Centre (and maybe renaming it the Gordie Howe Arena) while also investing in a more reasonably sized downtown arena is a better plan.

Like, Saskatoon isn't going to grow into an NHL market by the time this new, downtown arena reaches its expiry date either, so it just seems excessive to spend a huge amount more on a 16,000+ seat hockey rink, when they could build something really nice with around 10,000 seats for a lot less, without demolishing Sasktel Centre.

Personally, I think an NHL team could actually work in Saskatoon (if they called them the Saskatchewan Roughriders) because Sask is that crazy for the Riders and Sask probably is the most hockey crazy province in all of Canada... but the NHL doesn't think that way.

Regina's stadium for the Riders being largely funded by taxpayers was incredibly divisive and many people were against the idea from the get go, even some very big Rider fans. Maybe I'm overestimating how much less it is to build a 10,000 or so arena is compared to an NHL scale 16,000+ arena, but I'm sure it would be quite a lot less.

Still think it's outrageous that Regina built the nicest football stadium in the country and couldn't even get a single World Cup match out of it. Yes, I've heard all the "not enough hotels" argument, but I counter that with there's more than enough Rider Fans across the province to fill up their stadium for a few football matches in the world's biggest sporting event.

Canadians was let down by Toronto and Vancouver getting all the matches, but I get that's mostly due to FIFA and their excessive requirements for host cities.

A World Cup game in Regina; seriously? The city is too small; as is the stadium; plus no suitable hotel and not enough hotel rooms. Winnipeg doesn't even have a suitable hotel for visiting NHL teams.

[trolledbypro]

Harley Finkelstein, President of Shopify and (former?) member of the Montreal Baseball Group, states that a baseball stadium location "is already pre-approved". The location is close to downtown.
https://x.com/harleyf/status/1985030411664162863
Unclear what his present involvement is with efforts to bring baseball back.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by trolledbypro

Harley Finkelstein, President of Shopify and (former?) member of the Montreal Baseball Group, states that a baseball stadium location "is already pre-approved". The location is close to downtown.
https://x.com/harleyf/status/1985030411664162863
Unclear what his present involvement is with efforts to bring baseball back.

After the craziness of what has happened during this Post Season/World Series in terms of fan support and viewership numbers, I am 100% confident now that the MLB is going to be looking into Montreal more seriously. The prospect of having another team with giant corporate and media conglomerate backing like the Blue Jays, with potential for nationwide support (especially if an Expos revival were to be in the NL) and 2 potential opportunities per season to have this sort of frenzy instead of 1, is just too good of a prospect to pass up. You simply would not be able to get a team with marketability like this in Nashville, Portland, Charlotte, Raleigh, Orlando, or SLC.

The same all applies to Vancouver too IMO.

[trolledbypro]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

After the craziness of what has happened during this Post Season/World Series in terms of fan support and viewership numbers, I am 100% confident now that the MLB is going to be looking into Montreal more seriously. The prospect of having another team with giant corporate and media conglomerate backing like the Blue Jays, with potential for nationwide support (especially if an Expos revival were to be in the NL) and 2 potential opportunities per season to have this sort of frenzy instead of 1, is just too good of a prospect to pass up. You simply would not be able to get a team with marketability like this in Nashville, Portland, Charlotte, Raleigh, Orlando, or SLC.

The same all applies to Vancouver too IMO.

https://x.com/harleyf/status/1985128...5PPfotb4g&s=19
Harley corrected himself saying they don't have the land anymore, although he would be onboard with pursuing a team if (when) the opportunity next presents itself.
There is also still no ownership group, which is why nobody is talking about Montreal as an expansion candidate. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aR08dXhO1Mg

[trolledbypro]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

After the craziness of what has happened during this Post Season/World Series in terms of fan support and viewership numbers, I am 100% confident now that the MLB is going to be looking into Montreal more seriously. The prospect of having another team with giant corporate and media conglomerate backing like the Blue Jays, with potential for nationwide support (especially if an Expos revival were to be in the NL) and 2 potential opportunities per season to have this sort of frenzy instead of 1, is just too good of a prospect to pass up. You simply would not be able to get a team with marketability like this in Nashville, Portland, Charlotte, Raleigh, Orlando, or SLC.

The same all applies to Vancouver too IMO.

Do you think the arrival of the new mayor Soraya Martinez Ferrada will change anything? Still have zero stadium sites since the Peel Basin will be redeveloped.

[Coldrsx]

^^

Edmonton continues to face challenges bidding/hosting major events due to a lack of 4*+ hotel rooms and is one of the (many) reasons our WC 'bid' failed.

Even the long awaited All-Star game/Draft won't come here partially due to a need for one more upper-end hotel.

It's a REAL THING.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I really don't get why there's such a need for thousands of hotel rooms and 4+ star hotels to host a few soccer matches, when there's more than enough fans in Saskatchewan to fill up their stadium for one or two world cup matches at exorbitant prices, with seats reserved for fans from around the world equivalent to how ever many hotel rooms there are in Regina or something like that.


For the teams. They could have built a luxury high rise with 4+ star hotel amenities, which could be converted to mostly residential housing post World Cup.

I just think lack of hotel rooms is a really lame reason to exclude the best football stadium in the country from hosting even a single match of the world's biggest sporting event, the World Cup of Football.

Not only is Mosaic Stadium the best football stadium in the country, Rider fans provide the best atmosphere, and they would be the majority of the fans in the stadium. I get Regina is a smaller city, but we're talking about one or two soccer matches here, not Regina hosting an entire World Cup lol.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I really don't get why there's such a need for thousands of hotel rooms and 4+ star hotels to host a few soccer matches, when there's more than enough fans in Saskatchewan to fill up their stadium for one or two world cup matches at exorbitant prices, with seats reserved for fans from around the world equivalent to how ever many hotel rooms there are in Regina or something like that.


For the teams. They could have built a luxury high rise with 4+ star hotel amenities, which could be converted to mostly residential housing post World Cup.

I just think lack of hotel rooms is a really lame reason to exclude the best football stadium in the country from hosting even a single match of the world's biggest sporting event, the World Cup of Football.

Not only is Mosaic Stadium the best football stadium in the country, Rider fans provide the best atmosphere, and they would be the majority of the fans in the stadium. I get Regina is a smaller city, but we're talking about one or two soccer matches here, not Regina hosting an entire World Cup lol.

This cost benefit for 1 or 2 games does not make sense. 1) these would need to bring capacity to 45,000. 2) add a grass field and 3) the CFL configuration for the stands is 150 yards where, soccer needs 120ish yards so the end zones, which are some of the best seats, would be 20ish yards from the nets. 4) the media / press box is not large enough 5) there are not enough private suites. The amount of money to spend on that and then to have FIFA all approve that is not going to happen. Mosiac is a great stadium and has great fans but your argument makes no sense what-so-ever

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Not only is Mosaic Stadium the best football stadium in the country, Rider fans provide the best atmosphere, and they would be the majority of the fans in the stadium. I get Regina is a smaller city, but we're talking about one or two soccer matches here, not Regina hosting an entire World Cup lol.

Regina and Winnipeg have the best Football stadiums in the country, Montreal has my favourite just for its location.

[Calgarian]

What is the nicest hotel in Regina and how many hotel rooms are in the city? I'm sure they could sell a ton of tickets locally, but thee are a ton of people who will travel very far to watch their country play. I imagine airport connections are also a factor...