The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[eemy]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Those streets in Kitchener are sure to be redeveloped with the LRT rolling down.

There has been and continues to be massive amounts of redevelopment in the transit corridor already.

[SkahHigh]

The AMT just ordered 24 new multi-level cars for it's commuter rail fleet, to be delivered in 2018.

[giallo]

Two new lines (line 12 and 13) opened right outside my apartment building in Shanghai yesterday. I now have 4 subway lines (1,10,12 and 13) all within a block of my place. Not many people seem to care in my social media circles, but I though you guys would appreciate it.

line 12 1 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 2 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 3 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 5 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 13 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 4 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr

[Nouvellecosse]

You mentioned that Shanghai basically uses its metro system to fill dual roles as both metro and a commuter rail service. How well does this seem to work? Unless it has local and express service, wouldn't it take a long time to get into town? I can see it working well in a smaller city that doesn't have huge distances, or in a lower density city where it can have large distances between stations. But in a city that's both very large and very dense I have to wonder.

[giallo]

It's not too bad. I used to work way up in the northern metro, and it would take me about 50 minutes with one line change. I'm sure it'd take longer than that if you're in the Minhang District or the furthest reaches of Pudong, and you have to travel in to central Shanghai.

The one thing these lines do (besides offer rapid transit to areas that have none) is break down connections, and therefore connection times between areas. It's almost to the point to where you can get to where you need to go with only one line change. For instance, almost half of Line 12's current stations are hubs that connect with other lines. Line 13 is like this too.

[Nouvellecosse]

It's true that while a lot of commuter rail has faster trips, it isn't always as big a time savings as it sounds. Not only because of transfers, but also because of lower service frequency. I think a big part of the reason that a two tiered system is so common is that rapid transit tends to be expensive, and there isn't always the need for such high levels of service out in distant areas where in many cities there's lower density.

That, and because metro systems tend to have fewer (and less comfortable) seats and more standing room, so it isn't very comfortable for anyone on it for very long periods of time.

[giallo]

There's no commuter rail in Central and Greater Shanghai. You have the metro, buses and taxis. That's it. If you factor in cities like Suzhou, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Wuxi, Jaxing etc. which, thanks to high speed rail, act as bedroom communities to Shanghai, then yes, you could consider those "commuter trains", even though there is no rapid transit alternative.

[Nouvellecosse]

Any idea why they decided to go that route? It seems so unusual such a huge city not to have any.

[giallo]

I don't think there's really a need at the moment.

Contrary to what people think, developed Shanghai doesn't encompass that much land. The borders of the greater area stretch far, but the main population base is all quite central. There aren't any mountains or large bodies of water (save the Huangpu River) to navigate or impede development, so it's just one slightly large, but quite dense city that is completely connected to each other. Pudong is the only outlier in this, but everyone that lives out there does so because they work out there. No one chooses to live in "PuJersey" by choice .

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Any idea why they decided to go that route? It seems so unusual such a huge city not to have any.

Originally Posted by giallo

I don't think there's really a need at the moment.

Contrary to what people think, developed Shanghai doesn't encompass that much land. The borders of the greater area stretch far, but the main population base is all quite central. There aren't any mountains or large bodies of water (save the Huangpu River) to navigate or impede development, so it's just one slightly large, but quite dense city that is completely connected to each other. Pudong is the only outlier in this, but everyone that lives out there does so because they work out there. No one chooses to live in "PuJersey" by choice .

There is also the whole lack of underused rail corridors to convert. Large cities that industrialized in the pre-transport truck era likely have a huge advantage in existing infrastructure. If you have to build a mostly grade separated line from scratch to begin with, are you really going to save more by going pure commuter rail route?

Now, you might balance your demand better by creating a reverse flow from the centre of your rapid network, and save money by being able to reduce capacity.

[Nouvellecosse]

You don't build an all new rail corridor for commuter rail; but sometimes you upgrade existing corridors with extra track, grade separation, or improved signalling. And occasionally an extra spur or something.

If Shanghai doesn't have any suitable mainline rail corridors, then I guess that would more or less answer the question.

[milomilo]

Man dies after C-Train collision, woman in critical condition


Calgary's NE transit line won't be very rapid tonight.

36th St NE is pretty much the worst possible way of building transit - high speed trains going down the median of a major road with huge, frequent at grade intersections. And not only is the line deadly because of this, the stations only serve sprawling parking lots and a few disconnected low density cul-de-sacs.

Yes, Calgary may have awesome transit stats, but large sections of it's LRT system are utterly shit.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by giallo

Two new lines (line 12 and 13) opened right outside my apartment building in Shanghai yesterday. I now have 4 subway lines (1,10,12 and 13) all within a block of my place. Not many people seem to care in my social media circles, but I though you guys would appreciate it.

Looks nice, pretty impressive to have access to 4 lines within a block.

Very much enjoyed the subway there, maybe more so than anywhere else.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by giallo

There's no commuter rail in Central and Greater Shanghai. You have the metro, buses and taxis. That's it. If you factor in cities like Suzhou, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Wuxi, Jaxing etc. which, thanks to high speed rail, act as bedroom communities to Shanghai, then yes, you could consider those "commuter trains", even though there is no rapid transit alternative.

Technically the Jinshan Railway (formerly referred to as Line 22) run out of Shanghai South Railway Station would qualify as commuter rail, I would think.

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

You don't build an all new rail corridor for commuter rail; but sometimes you upgrade existing corridors with extra track, grade separation, or improved signalling. And occasionally an extra spur or something.

If Shanghai doesn't have any suitable mainline rail corridors, then I guess that would more or less answer the question.

Considering most of Shanghai's system is either underground or elevated, having mainline rail corridors isn't particularly useful. The only section of the Shanghai Metro that parallels mainline rail that I am aware of is the section of Line 1 between Xinzhuang and Jinjiang Park (one of the oldest parts of the system, and the pretty much the only at-grade (but still entirely grade separated - all road crossings are accomplished by underpass) section of the entire system.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Man dies after C-Train collision, woman in critical condition


Calgary's NE transit line won't be very rapid tonight.

36th St NE is pretty much the worst possible way of building transit - high speed trains going down the median of a major road with huge, frequent at grade intersections. And not only is the line deadly because of this, the stations only serve sprawling parking lots and a few disconnected low density cul-de-sacs.

Yes, Calgary may have awesome transit stats, but large sections of it's LRT system are utterly shit.

You can't blame that on the transit system or technology. That incident is 110% the fault of the driver who tried to go around a functioning railway barrier. The guy either had a death wish or was pissed out of his mind.

That can happen on any at grade system whether it be bus, streetcar, or LRT. The system had all the proper safeguards in place and functioning but if someone tries a stunt like that there is little that can be done. To blame that on the CTrain system is like blaming a Metro for delays because someone decided to jump in front of the train.

[caltrane74]

New Union Station Renovations announced

[WhipperSnapper]

Render piano!!

[WhipperSnapper]

Shanghai looks like Berlin.

Isn't commuter rail a North American phenomenon?

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Shanghai looks like Berlin.

Isn't commuter rail a North American phenomenon?

Commuter rail as we know it is just called something else in Europe. Regional rail or "regional express", or stuff like that. Runs about once an hour or every half hour, pulled by a locomotive and doesn't make very frequent stops within the city itself.

Berlin: S-bahn on left, regional express on right.

[WhipperSnapper]

That's closer to intercity rail. Commuter rail is a rush hour service within a metro area.