Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

It blows me away that anyone in Alberta who doesn't draw their paycheque directly from the Flames organization would actually support the Danielle Smith arena deal.

[craner]

^ Yes, probably.
^^ Sorry man, but I really want a new arena and related district upgrades.

I’m willing to pay more personally but this isn’t a political discussion thread so I don’t want to elaborate here.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by craner

Well I can only speak for myself as one Calgarian but the UCP funding announcement has won my vote. I have to hold my nose because Danielle Smith is a complete nut case who I never would have voted for without this commitment.
I would never vote NDP either as I don’t agree with what they stand for.
I was considering voting Liberal or for an independent, or not voting at all. But now I don’t want to lose this arena deal or take the chance of the NDP tearing it up.

Originally Posted by craner

^ Yes, probably.
^^ Sorry man, but I really want a new arena and related district upgrades.

I’m willing to pay more personally but this isn’t a political discussion thread so I don’t want to elaborate here.

What if the NDP promises not to kill the deal? Talking about the arena, so still on topic!

[O-tacular]

Tempe AZ using us as an example of what not to do:

[MalcolmTucker]

That is a very generous view of Tempe’s deal. Over time it is 100% tax funded.

[J.OT13]

So what is the funding formula for Tempe?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So what is the funding formula for Tempe?

Free prime land, allow lots of development and rebate the taxes on all of it. Govt also pays for infrastructure but that's almost a given.

[thurmas]

lots of obstacles to Tempe arena deal getting done especially with the May 16th vote by residents if they want it. If it passes that the deal could still be in limbo as Phoenix is suing Tempe on the deal

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...g/70177818007/

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Free prime land, allow lots of development and rebate the taxes on all of it. Govt also pays for infrastructure but that's almost a given.

Plus a tax capture of all tax revenue (sales and property) for an entire 'district' to fund the arena proper. Low cost subsidized municipal bonds.

[J.OT13]

I understand now. It's arguably a worse deal than Calgary. Is there a time limit on this, where the City starts getting revenue again, or is it in perpetuity? Usually, it's something like "25 year tax break" or "100 year dollar land lease".

[thewave46]

I'm just shocked that Tempe is even bothering, given the fiasco of Glendale in the same metro.

At least the Calgary proposal is naked in its awfulness. Tempe's is not, but it's just about as awful. The Coyotes are a shit business, and the arena's just a cover for a private redevelopment scheme that gets future tax dollars funneled to a private developer.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Tempe AZ using us as an example of what not to do:

[IMG]https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/forum/...99-png.473966/[/IM]

[IMG]https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/forum/attachments/1683136155366-png.473967/[/IMG

Apparently not.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I understand now. It's arguably a worse deal than Calgary. Is there a time limit on this, where the City starts getting revenue again, or is it in perpetuity? Usually, it's something like "25 year tax break" or "100 year dollar land lease".

The district can be perpetual under Arizona law. No public information has been released regarding the term. The term is more likely dependent on generating revenue required to repay the bond issue. Depending on the deal, more bonds could be issued later for arena and area upgrades, extending the district life.

It is definitely a your mileage may vary situation. And one where Canadian transparency around public finance would make a deal look incredibly different even if it was the same.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'm just shocked that Tempe is even bothering, given the fiasco of Glendale in the same metro.

This is the aspect of the deal I truly don't understand. I get Tempe wanting to build its own arena, but why in their right mind would they partner with the Coyotes to do it given their history of being a terrible dance partner? Even if it's all wrapped up in their owner's gambling business, how do they not see Glendale's empty arena and reconsider?

I say this as a fan of the Coyotes. Nothing about the organization or their 20 year desperate attempts to stay in Arizona should appeal to potential business partners.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

This is the aspect of the deal I truly don't understand. I get Tempe wanting to build its own arena, but why in their right mind would they partner with the Coyotes to do it given their history of being a terrible dance partner? Even if it's all wrapped up in their owner's gambling business, how do they not see Glendale's empty arena and reconsider?

I say this as a fan of the Coyotes. Nothing about the organization or their 20 year desperate attempts to stay in Arizona should appeal to potential business partners.

It's a classic rug pull. This has been dressed up as a effort to "save the coyotes" its an opportunity to build billions of dollars of real estate and sell everything including the team to a sucker

[Berklon]

It's always a scam when taxpayers are left holding the bag. It was a scam with Edmonton, and is being attempted with Calgary and Arizona.

[itom 987]

We got 3 large skyscrapers out of the deal so far. I think that more than makes up for whatever taxpayers are having to deal with regarding Rogers Place itself. I can't say the same for Calgary and Arizona. I certainly don't want MY provincial taxpayer money going toward Calgary's arena. Calgarians should only be the ones paying for it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by itom 987

We got 3 large skyscrapers out of the deal so far. I think that more than makes up for whatever taxpayers are having to deal with regarding Rogers Place itself. I can't say the same for Calgary and Arizona. I certainly don't want MY provincial taxpayer money going toward Calgary's arena. Calgarians should only be the ones paying for it.

You didn't get any skyscrapers out of the deal. The Katz Group and its partners did.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by esquire

You didn't get any skyscrapers out of the deal. The Katz Group and its partners did.

Sssshhhh... people don't like to know they've been duped.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Sssshhhh... people don't like to know they've been duped.

In all fairness, Taxes from those structures plus the upcoming CWB Tower over 150+ years plus a 5 star hotel, 100's of downtown homes, casino,community rink,The jobs that come with all of those ect. I mean as far as modern arena deals go Edmonton got something out of the deal. Downtown was an empty and lowly part of the city and has been full of life since ice district phase 1. And the efforts to beautify downtown has reflected in that as well, well outside ice district, big example of that is jasper ave. Also if that investment kept Stantec in town, that alone was worth it as they are a huge employer and were weighing options for a new head quarters and not all of them involved Edmonton from what i understand.

Not saying i agree with public funds being poured into arenas especially at a provincial level. But IF it results in what has happened in Edmonton, it at the very least takes the sting away a bit as it was a partnership between the city and darryl katz to make it all happen and i can see the argument for the city to fund a large portion of it as it makes Edmonton a more livable and attractive city, brings Business, Tourism and Events to downtown. In the end it was a win and a slightly less but still substantial win for The oilers and the city.

And Let's not forget, phase 2 and 3 of Ice District is still coming, That's 12 additional towers. 2500 units planned so far

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/oilers-o...lace-1.5855030