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  #7661  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2018, 10:29 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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I agree, but it's still a dumb name.

I'm sure people will continue to call it UTA anyway (just like the Delta Center )
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  #7662  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2018, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC View Post
Having a crappy name is a small price to pay for getting what appears to be a new flood of cash for years to come.
My thoughts too. I wonder if we could come up with some sneaky compromise? Say that the TDU is the governing body that manages the Utah Transit Agency? People could still say UTA, and then we wouldn't have to repaint the buses and trains with new letters.
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  #7663  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 2:47 AM
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Stuff like this just pisses me off. First of all UTA is a better name then TDA. Sounds better, it’s easier to say, and it’s easier to remember... but besides that. I think that this is just a pointless move. So how much tax payer money are we going to waste on repainting all of the buses and trains? Why? 99% of the people out there could care less about any scandal.
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  #7664  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 6:43 PM
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Speaking of naming things, the Provo-Orem BRT line needs a name. Apparently UTA has narrowed down all the suggested names to these three final contenders:
  • TimpRunner
  • Utah Valley Express
  • TimpExpress

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/c...951eeae-28ec-55a6-9dc2-4e76ad435f11.html

Vote for your choice here:
http://www.rideuta.com/About-UTA/Active-...rtation-Improvement-Project/Name-the-BRT

I don't like the label 'Express' being part of a name, so I guess I have to vote for TimpRunner, even though I don't love that name either.

I dunno, I think that having a whole special name for this one line sets a bad precedent. If each new BRT line gets its own name, we're going to get a mess of bad and confusing names. What happens when the Utah Valley State Street BRT line is up and running, which will actually go closer to Timpanogos than the current BRT line? Will that one have to bear the name 'Utah Valley Express'?

I would think that if there's going to be a bunch of these BRT lines that you'd want to have them have some sort of naming system, like the 'MAX Universities' line, kind of like we say the TRAX Airport Line.

Oh well, I guess we'll have to learn this lesson the hard way.
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  #7665  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 8:29 PM
Always Sunny in SLC Always Sunny in SLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
Speaking of naming things, the Provo-Orem BRT line needs a name. Apparently UTA has narrowed down all the suggested names to these three final contenders:
  • TimpRunner
  • Utah Valley Express
  • TimpExpress

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/c...951eeae-28ec-55a6-9dc2-4e76ad435f11.html

Vote for your choice here:
http://www.rideuta.com/About-UTA/Active-...rtation-Improvement-Project/Name-the-BRT

I don't like the label 'Express' being part of a name, so I guess I have to vote for TimpRunner, even though I don't love that name either.

I dunno, I think that having a whole special name for this one line sets a bad precedent. If each new BRT line gets its own name, we're going to get a mess of bad and confusing names. What happens when the Utah Valley State Street BRT line is up and running, which will actually go closer to Timpanogos than the current BRT line? Will that one have to bear the name 'Utah Valley Express'?

I would think that if there's going to be a bunch of these BRT lines that you'd want to have them have some sort of naming system, like the 'MAX Universities' line, kind of like we say the TRAX Airport Line.

Oh well, I guess we'll have to learn this lesson the hard way.
I am doing a write in ballot as soon as I can narrow it down from my three choices-

Happy Valley Line
Mass Transit in Utah Valley? The End is Near Line
Dragging Them to Mass Transit Kicking and Screaming Line
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  #7666  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 8:41 PM
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I hate to keep complaining about ̶U̶T̶A̶ TDU branding, but those are all pretty terrible names for BRT.

I suppose TimpRunner is kind of catchy.
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  #7667  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 11:39 PM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
I hate to keep complaining about ̶U̶T̶A̶ TDU branding, but those are all pretty terrible names for BRT.

I suppose TimpRunner is kind of catchy.
My suggestion was better than all 3

PORT(Provo Orem Rapid Transit)
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  #7668  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2018, 12:32 AM
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This bill is being proposed by:

Representative Michael E. Noel


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Noel
https://house.utah.gov/rep/NOELME

Here's the bill:
https://le.utah.gov/~2018/bills/static/HB0481.html
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  #7669  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2018, 4:56 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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News on the Transit/Transportation reorganization bill.

It is 99% guaranteed to pass. There have been a few changes again. The main changes are:

Registration fee hikes are now gradual and will be at the top level by 2022.
Tax increases (sales or otherwise) included with the original and previous updated bills are now removed.
Sales tax increases (up to the 1.05%) are back to only needing County Council approval as opposed to direct voter approval.

So no new funding for transit and transportation projects in the new TU(r)D area included with this bill but the funding increases will be brought up next year. No one in the House felt comfortable voting to raise taxes in an election year for this.

Still no info on the Transit Fare bills. Hopefully they aren't shelved until next year but it is possible at this point in the session.

Potential $0.10 gas tax increase. This increase would be used to offset some funds from the General Fund to pay for Transportation and allow the equivalent funds be directed to Education. This, if passed, would place the increase on the ballot this November.

Also guaranteed to pass is the Transit assignment bill that directs UTA (TUD) to follow the wills of the County/City Councils that provide the transit funding as opposed to doing what they feel the people want.

This is in direct relation to Weber County wanting their Prop 1 taxes to go to a BRT line from the Ogden FrontRunner station to Weber State. UTA has instead spent the money on bus stops and minor (very minor) bus service enhancements. Unfortunately, Weber County isn't big enough in itself to support the $100+ Million for the BRT Line from the Prop 1 increase alone.

The County and Ogden City will need to assist with financing as well as possible Federal Grants (Tiger/Small & New Starts/etc.).

It is possible that while the financing is worked on, some small enhancements can be made along the BRT Line that could be paid for by UTA (TUD) and Ogden/Weber County to get the project started. This could be as small as getting a dedicated bus route going along the proposed route with stops as proposed.
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  #7670  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2018, 6:31 PM
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Agree, TimpRunner is catchy. I voted for it. Anything but UtahValley blahblah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
I hate to keep complaining about ̶U̶T̶A̶ TDU branding, but those are all pretty terrible names for BRT.

I suppose TimpRunner is kind of catchy.
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  #7671  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2018, 6:36 PM
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Thanks Makid. Your updates are fantastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makid View Post
So no new funding for transit and transportation projects in the new TU(r)D area included with this bill but the funding increases will be brought up next year. No one in the House felt comfortable voting to raise taxes in an election year for this.
So no new funding dedicated to transit, but how about Transit projects being able to compete with highway projects for funds? Is that still going to be changed this year? I have a feeling that transit projects will be surprisingly competitive and that this will be a much bigger deal than the dedicated funding sources.
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  #7672  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2018, 7:47 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
Thanks Makid. Your updates are fantastic.



So no new funding dedicated to transit, but how about Transit projects being able to compete with highway projects for funds? Is that still going to be changed this year? I have a feeling that transit projects will be surprisingly competitive and that this will be a much bigger deal than the dedicated funding sources.
The Transit projects competing with Highway projects is part of the UTA reform. That portion is still there. It wouldn't change any of the existing allotments for transportation (last years $1 Billion bond for transportation) but it will allow future allocations to have Transit projects be selected.

The criteria for transit projects being selected will be the same as for any transportation project going forward. By this, I would expect any existing highway project will still have first dibs on the funds (Bangerter Highway conversion to a full Freeway and MVC). Transit would be competing against new projects such as road capacity changes.

By this, FrontRunner being double tracked and electrified would be able to compete against say I-15 being widened or stacked as was proposed a few years back.

The same is also possible for a second route to Tooele. Commuter Rail, Trax, BRT or more could be able to compete against a highway from Herriman to Tooele or a widening of I-80 between 80th West and say Lakepoint.

Additionally, Transit would be able to be included in projects to help limit scope of future projects. Again, the highway from Herriman to Tooele could be forced to include transit (BRT/Rail) as a plan for future growth.
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  #7673  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 2:10 AM
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Wrote my legislator to oppose the "Trump" highway designation.

He wrote back in 20 minutes saying he's "a solid NO."

Not bad for a Republican.
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  #7674  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 3:51 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
Wrote my legislator to oppose the "Trump" highway designation.

He wrote back in 20 minutes saying he's "a solid NO."

Not bad for a Republican.
Problem with a Trump highway is that any time the road needs to go to the right, it'll go left instead.
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  #7675  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 6:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho View Post
Problem with a Trump highway is that any time the road needs to go to the right, it'll go left instead.
Don't know what you mean by "it'll go left instead," more like straight off a cliff.

Did the "Stormy Daniels On Ramp" pass the house as well?
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  #7676  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makid View Post
the new TU(r)D [...] UTA (TUD)
So the official acronym of the new UTA will either be TUD or TURD?

....Whhaaaat?
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  #7677  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 8:51 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
So the official acronym of the new UTA will either be TUD or TURD?

....Whhaaaat?
The acronym is actually TDU, I couldn't remember when I wrote the post. I am just not a fan of the order as I keep thinking that since District is included in the name, it should be at the end, not the middle. Even UTD would be better (Utah Transit District or even Urban Transit District). Transit District Utah just doesn't sound right when spoken.

Overall, I do think that the bill will be passed by the Senate late today or early tomorrow morning.

UTA estimates that it will cost $50 Million for the name change. I think the overall cost may be lower if they only replace UTA with TDU and leave the colors the same.

The signs could be updated with stickers until they are replaced either due to age or route changes. Vehicle updates could be done over time during regular maintenance. The Website/Apps can be updated quickly as the Text is a simple find and replace. The logos may take a bit longer only because it would still need to be designed.

I am fine with the overall name change but would love to save more money by having TDU be the top level and the services operated by UTA that could change from Utah Transit Association to Urban Transit Association or Urban Transit Area. This would allow for the complete restructuring while also leaving the signage and paint the same. The Website and App would just need to add the new layer, for this it could be as simple as just a page or note.
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  #7678  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 9:43 PM
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So the thing that got me designing rail corridors last month was the threat of losing the old railroad ROW that is slated to become the Fulsom Trail. In that original post I argued that the Fulsom Trail corridor would be better off including train tracks as well, like the S-Line or Draper Extension do.

After talking with a few people involved in the planning of the Fulsom Trail, I've changed my mind. I had understood that the trail would be similar to the 9-Line trail, which is a bike trail on top of an old railroad grade with a few aesthetic improvements along the sides. The reality is that, over the course of a few 'phases,' the Fulsom Trail is going to be much more than that. There are plans to daylight City Creek through those blocks, creating almost an off-shoot of the Jordan River Trail in terms of wetland, urban forest, playgrounds, and public open space. It will be a major big-deal, and after my conversations with the planners I'm super excited about it.

Long story short, I've redesigned my hypothetical east-west line through that area. I had been concerned about knocking down buildings next to the existing railroad tracks, but it turns out that whole area is going to get redeveloped from a blank slate anyway so my caution was really not needed.

Here are some screenshots from the Google Map:


The blue line is obviously City Creek. The spot where it reaches the Jordan River in this picture is the spot where it currently exits from its underground pipe. The brown line is the pedestrian trail, and the green outline is the minimum extent of the park area. The new arch bridge is not yet included in the Google image, but the trail would have to rise up about 25 feet in the air in order to tie-in with the bridge.
The orange line is a Union Pacific track relocation, which will make room for the east-west commuter line tracks to cross over the Union Pacific tracks with a flyover structure. In the last design the flyover bridge continued east along the Fulsom corridor, but in this new plan the bridge curves north to eventually become parallel to the Union Pacific tracks.

Moving eastward:


This picture will be had to explain... I've moved 10th and 9th West streets onto viaducts to completely grade-separate them from both the railroad tracks and from the trail/creek. Both of these bridges will be wide enough for two traffic lanes, two bike lanes, and two sidewalks. At ground-level, one through-lane (shared for bikes and cars) and a sidewalk will remain to provide access to local properties.

I picture these elevated bridges being built as solid structures, leaving no space underneath for homeless camps. I also picture them to be covered eventually with vines/vegetation, so that graffiti won't be a problem. Basically, imagine the North Temple viaduct, but much narrower.

Grade-separation is important for three important reasons:
1) Train Traffic - there is going to be a lot more train traffic with the east-west commuter line, and the two Union Pacific tracks are already very busy. The single Garfield & Western Railway track is used for freight switching, and trains often stop in these crossings on that track and block traffic.
2) Pedestrian Safety - if the area is really going to be redeveloped with apartments and town homes adjacent to the green space, pedestrians will need safe ways to cross the railroad tracks. Climbing through freight cars is unacceptable. It will also separate the pedestrian trail from these two streets, making the trail much more enjoyable to trail users.
3) Bridging the creek - if the creek is going to be daylighted, it would be nice to keep it in the open the entire length of the daylighting project. Bridges will be needed over the creek anyway, so why not make the bridges big enough to include the trail as well? I'm thinking something like the tunnel at Logan's Central Park, where the creek and the trail share a passage underneath a busy city street:


And if you think that two viaducts are a little crazy, just wait until you see what I'm thinking of as we go farther east...



I've proposed completely closing 800 West between South Temple and the Fulsome Trail. It is not a busy street and could not possibly justify its own bridge, so it's better to get rid of the at-grade crossing altogether. In its place a dedicated pedestrian bridge will cross over the tracks parallel to I-15.

The relocation of one Union Pacific Track to make room for the East-West commuter rail tracks is still there, but I've moved everything over slightly more. I've done the measurements through this area, and even though it will get a little tight, there is room for 1 freight track, two transit tracks, and an 8-foot wide pedestrian area between the existing bridge columns. The sharper turn will make trains travel a little slower through that area, but since everything west of that curve will be grade-separated it will have no effect on vehicle and pedestrian traffic.

I've continued the Fulsom Trail southward from here so that it goes directly to Salt Lake Central Station and 2nd South. It will be a very direct trip from the Jordan River Trail to downtown.

I've also gone a little crazy with the area between the tracks... I've created the Grant's Tower Railfan Park!
Gran'ts Tower is the name for that railroad interlocking, back when it was the meeting place for the Union Pacific, Western Pacific, and Rio Grande railroads. Union Pacific has since bought the other two railroads and streamlined the infrastructure in the area (with monetary help from the UTA so that FrontRunner could be made to fit) and the tower itself is sitting abandoned just west of the Gateway. I propose turning the unused space in the center of the triangle into a railfan park, so that people will have a decent public space to use to watch and learn about trains.
Railfan Parks are becoming more and more common in railroad towns across the country. They usually include all the features of a park, including green space and playgrounds, but also include at least one raised platform where it is easy to look at and take pictures of the passing trains:





In my plans, the two brown areas at the tips of the triangle are intended to be train-viewing platforms. The north platform would be the more popular, since it would be squeezed between the Union Pacific mainlines and the FrontRunner tracks. There are already about 100 trains a day that pass that point, and if FrontRunner frequencies really do double, it will be possible to see as many as 150 trains in a day at that location. That would make it one of the busiest railfan parks in the entire country. The park itself could become something of a destination on its own, bringing in railfan tourists from around the country.

There are other nice touches that can be included too, like speakers broadcasting radio scanners set to railroad operations frequencies so that people can know when trains are coming. Some other parks include displays of history in the area, or parked cabooses or freight cars to climb on/house displays.

Since there would obviously be a fence enclosing the park to keep people off the tracks, the railfan park could be physically closed off during the night to keep it free of vandals and vagrants. Closing the park would also mean that the park itself could include nice things that wouldn't need to be vandal-proof, making it more like a museum.

I feel like, in becoming and advocate for a park in the middle of this rail triangle, I have come full-circle... I remember laughing about a similar plan some years ago, thinking that no way would there ever be any lakes or green space in that area:


Well, times do change.

Last edited by Hatman; Mar 7, 2018 at 9:56 PM.
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  #7679  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 10:08 PM
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UTA estimates that it will cost $50 Million for the name change.
$50 Million to change names!
This is unacceptable. They're saying right now it will cost a maximum of $10 million dollars to both buy ROW from the Union Pacific and build their own railroad track up to Pleasant View Station to keep FrontRunner service to that station, but they're going to be forced to spend 5x that on changing their name?
With that kind of money FrontRunner could be extended all the way north to Brigham City. With that kind of money TRAX could be elevated at the airport. With that kind of money UTA could switch its bus fleet to all-electric vehicles.

This name change is now making me angry. It was funny before, but now it is infuriating.
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  #7680  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 11:25 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Hatman, I do agree that the name change is beyond crazy. Just having UTA being a division of TDU would save money and still accomplish what they want.

For the Western commuter rail line plan, I think that the plan does become more reasonable and possible (including the viaducts on 9th and 10th West, when you realize the impact that the Inland Port will have.

The UP rail line will see a very large increase in traffic. I can see the State offering assistance in funding to help relocate some lines for efficiencies as well as assisting with viaducts. I can see 9th and 10th West as well as 8th and 9th South having work done. Viaducts on 9th and 10th West and raising the rails slightly and lowering the roads to allow for 8th and 9th South to go under the tracks.

With the increase in freight traffic, there will be longer and more frequent trains and work will be needed to remove and reduce the rail crossings to support the additional traffic.

With the work for the Inland Port as well as the location, I think the odds of getting a commuter rail line to Tooele are very high. With the projected employment levels at 30 to 40 years out (75,000 - 100,000+) having a commuter line linking Tooele and SLC is actually practical.
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