Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[drew]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Literally no one speaks French at the various concessions (Relay, Tim Hortons, other shops and restaurants). Even though under their lease agreements they are supposed to provide bilingual service.

I connected thru Montreal spring of 2023 with my family back and forth to Cuba, with some extended layovers (6 plus hours). I observed that French was spoken at every concession we visited, and was routinely the first language spoken to us in all situations..?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by drew

I connected thru Montreal spring of 2023 with my family back and forth to Cuba, with some extended layovers (6 plus hours). I observed that French was spoken at every concession we visited, and was routinely the first language spoken to us in all situations..?

I was talking about Ottawa airport.

As I mentioned, I've never had any problems getting service in French at Montreal airport.

[big T]

I have to agree that the airport story seems extremely fishy. I fly a lot out of YUL and have never had exit passport controls, either to the US or intl (for that, there is an automated turnstile scanner now). Your theory Acajack that he's referring to the Catsa dude scanning your bp and eyeballing your passport at ingress is pretty much the only explanation, but those clowns are hard to mistake for customs officials, and they do not wear anything resembling a Canadian border official uniform with a prominent maple leaf on it.

This didn't happen.

Anecdotally, my experience with YUL Catsa staff in particular is that they struggle with both French and English
As for the rest of the airport staff, never had issues getting served in French, as you noted.

[niwell]

Yes, from my experiences YOW is virtually as anglo as YYZ. CATSA officers don't make a great wage so I assume they take what they can get.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by big T

I have to agree that the airport story seems extremely fishy. I fly a lot out of YUL and have never had exit passport controls, either to the US or intl (for that, there is an automated turnstile scanner now). Your theory Acajack that he's referring to the Catsa dude scanning your bp and eyeballing your passport at ingress is pretty much the only explanation, but those clowns are hard to mistake for customs officials, and they do not wear anything resembling a Canadian border official uniform with a prominent maple leaf on it.

This didn't happen.

Since I know you speak French, here is his interview with Patrick Lagacé. Judge for yourself.

https://www.985fm.ca/audio/611023/si...omme-turbulent

[big T]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Since I know you speak French, here is his interview with Patrick Lagacé. Judge for yourself.

https://www.985fm.ca/audio/611023/si...omme-turbulent

Thanks for the link. he's actually very convincing, I'm changing my opinion. From his description you were right, he's talking about the ingress check. The "flag on uniform" thing had me doubting, but in the grand scheme of things, he may be misremembering, the guy may have been wearing a pin... who cares.

I'm wondering now if my perception that this never happened to me (in the US pre clearance section at least) isn't simply due to my brain going "walking into the US now" and not noticing the lack of French. This definitely would have stood out anywhere else in the airport I think.

Good on him for speaking up. Sounds like the a*hole felt emboldened by the fact that was US pre clearance, which actually makes it more plausible now that I think about it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Yes, from my experiences YOW is virtually as anglo as YYZ. CATSA officers don't make a great wage so I assume they take what they can get.

CATSA was created as a federal government agency after Sept. 1, 2001 whereas before airport security screening was privately run - generally private security firms hired collectively by the airlines.

Like Air Canada (which went from private to government to private again), CATSA probably still has the Corporate Canada mindset at play in house, part of which is to see French as an annoying pain the ass.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by big T

Thanks for the link. he's actually very convincing, I'm changing my opinion. From his description you were right, he's talking about the ingress check. The "flag on uniform" thing had me doubting, but in the grand scheme of things, he may be misremembering, the guy may have been wearing a pin... who cares.

I'm wondering now if my perception that this never happened to me (in the US pre clearance section at least) isn't simply due to my brain going "walking into the US now" and not noticing the lack of French. This definitely would have stood out anywhere else in the airport I think.

Good on him for speaking up. Sounds like the a*hole felt emboldened by the fact that was US pre clearance, which actually makes it more plausible now that I think about it.

Yeah, the whole part about asking for a supervisor, who apologized and had the employee removed, is something that's unlikely for someone to invent.

That said, I would still think that something like this is an extremely rare occurrence at YUL. Though obviously it's shocking that it would happen even once at the airport in Montreal of all places.

[big T]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, the whole part about asking for a supervisor, who apologized and had the employee removed, is something that's unlikely for someone to invent.

That said, I would still think that something like this is an extremely rare occurrence at YUL. Though obviously it's shocking that it would happen even once at the airport in Montreal of all places.

I agree, it has to be extremely rare.
That said, Catsa stands out as an exceptionally broken agency even among the federal public service, so I guess it's not all that far fetched for them to hire and staff an industrial grade moron at YUL. Lio is right, this stuff can only ever be completely eliminated by Quebec being in control of all public service on its territory, aka sovereignty (costs vs benefits notwithstanding, ofc).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by big T

I agree, it has to be extremely rare.
That said, Catsa stands out as an exceptionally broken agency even among the federal public service, so I guess it's not all that far fetched for them to hire and staff an industrial grade moron at YUL. Lio is right, this stuff can only ever be completely eliminated by Quebec being in control of all public service on its territory, aka sovereignty (costs vs benefits notwithstanding, ofc).

I actually disagree with that final conclusion. Swiss-style language territoriality would also resolve this while keeping Quebec within Canada.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by big T

Anecdotally, my experience with YUL Catsa staff in particular is that they struggle with both French and English

Same at YYZ, speaking a language of the South Asian subcontinent would probably get you better CATSA service at YYZ than English these days.

It's really unfortunate AdeM demolished Mirabel. Dorval always feels like it's way over overcapacity, leading to sub optimal staffing/organization. The aeroport's woefully inadequate for the metropolis.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by big T

I agree, it has to be extremely rare.
That said, Catsa stands out as an exceptionally broken agency even among the federal public service, so I guess it's not all that far fetched for them to hire and staff an industrial grade moron at YUL. Lio is right, this stuff can only ever be completely eliminated by Quebec being in control of all public service on its territory, aka sovereignty (costs vs benefits notwithstanding, ofc).

Assuming a sovereign Quebec would enter into a pre-clearance agreement with the US, it's going to require the USCBP officers to speak French!

Do think the USCBP officers at the pre-clearance facility at Abu Dhabi airport speak Arabic?!?

[big T]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Assuming a sovereign Quebec would enter into a pre-clearance agreement with the US, it's going to require the USCBP officers to speak French!

Do think the USCBP officers at the pre-clearance facility at Abu Dhabi airport speak Arabic?!?

Of course not, but you know that.

[Acajack]

He is also missing the point that we're talking about Canadian public employees, paid for by our taxes.

I don't expect USCBP employees, who aren't paid by my taxes, to speak French, even in Montreal.

[Acajack]

I'd also assume that USCBP staff in the United Arab Emirates are probably often locally-sourced dual citizens. So a number of them likely do speak Arabic.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Acajack

He is also missing the point that we're talking about Canadian public employees, paid for by our taxes.

I don't expect USCBP employees, who aren't paid by my taxes, to speak French, even in Montreal.

Though USCBP employees are not paid by the host party (ie: Canadian airport), the host is responsible for the cost of the pre-clearance facility and any necessary upgrades the CBP would require.

Anyhow, here's the link to the current pre-clearance agreement between Canada and the US. https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text...aspx?id=105453

Pre-clearance is fully reciprocal; so Canada one day could establish pre-clearance facilities at US airports.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

The only way for this shit to stop is sovereignty. I'm sure you won't find airport security guys in Warsaw who speak no Polish, or airport security guys in Rome who speak no Italian.

It was already the same in the 1990s, and yet a majority of voters voted NON to independence (although allegedly the majority of Francophone voters voted OUI, but not in a large proportion enough to offset the Anglophone NON voters). So it seems some people can live with that...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by niwell

I've only ever had my passport checked at pre-clearance (American USCBP staff)

This wouldn't be accepted at European airports. It would be seen as inacceptable infringement of our sovereignty. Here it's the airline personnel who do pre-clearance (so if you board an Air France plane from Paris to NYC it's the Air France staff who do pre-clearance; but you also have to request an Electronic System for Travel Authorization online before traveling, something which the US unilaterally imposed, and which the European countries have been too weak to retaliate against, so US travelers to Europe are not asked by European governments to make similar requests online, which I find shameful).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

This wouldn't be accepted at European airports.

CBP has more than 600 officers and agriculture specialists stationed at 15 Preclearance locations in 6 countries: Dublin and Shannon in Ireland; Aruba; Bermuda; Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates; Nassau in the Bahamas; and Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Victoria, and Winnipeg in Canada.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance

DHS Announces Intent to Expand Preclearance to 10 New Airports

...
The 10 airports identified for possible preclearance locations include: Brussels Airport, Belgium; Punta Cana Airport, Dominican Republic; Narita International Airport, Japan; Amsterdam Airport Schipol, Netherlands; Oslo Airport, Norway; Madrid-Barajas Airport, Spain; Stockholm Arlanda Airport, Sweden; Istanbul Ataturk Airport, Turkey; and London Heathrow Airport and Manchester Airport, United Kingdom. These countries represent some of the busiest last points of departure to the United States – in 2014, nearly 20 million passengers traveled from these ten airports to the US.
...

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2015/05/29/...0-new-airports

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though obviously it's shocking that it would happen even once at the airport in Montreal of all places.

Fly from Saint-Pierre Airport in SPM. Fully French staff. The US could as well not have been created yet and 1760 not happened.

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