PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[PurpleWhiteOut]

And my one issue with the new Jefferson tower is that it won't help the liveliness of that block either at street level since they nixed the retail on the Chestnut st side. It could be because they anticipated difficulty filling it, but now one side of the block will permanently have another institutional hole of no retail use. It will bring a lot of employees and more patients, so some retail targeting that demo might fit better, but not sure what besides food. People out working probably wouldn't stop at Target, though.

[UrbanRevival]

I think it's also important to note that interest rates/inflation are without a doubt cutting into profit margins for retailers, particularly like Target that run on much thinner margins to begin with.

Not to say that quality-of-life issues like panhandling, shoplifting and lack of public maintenance don't wear on specific retail locations, but I'm willing to bet this was 90% economically driven. I mean, let's not pretend that Chestnut East was in much better shape when Target began its run there. It seemed to be on much more of an upswing 5 years ago, but it never improved by leaps and bounds, at least not in a long-term transformative way.

The fact that Target also closed stores in downtown Minneapolis and DC--which are generally much more "tame" and staid compared to anywhere in Philadelphia--definitely underscores how much bottom-line economics are at play.

In fact, there was a City Lab/Bloomberg article about this very topic a couple of weeks ago, so this is very much not specific to Philadelphia, despite the reflexive hand-wringing that happens with every announcement of something closing downtown:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...pen-in-suburbs

[Dan1]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Target closing one of its Center City Philadelphia stores

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ladelphia.html

Anyone have the inside scoop on this? I’m not too worried about the state of retail in the city generally as it seems to be bouncing back in Rittenhouse, Old City and NoLibs quite well. However, there seems to be a relatively high concentration of closings as of late in and around the East Market/12th St retail corridor. It’s as if it’s going in the opposite direction.

I sort of gave a pass to the Starbucks and Wawa closings, but it’s becoming harder to make excuses. Perhaps, this area is just better suited for restaurants, gyms, nightlife etc

Looks like there was a permit issued for that Target back in January. I wonder what that's all about? Maybe Target will hang onto the lease and do something else with the space? Could also just be some sort of basic repairs.
https://li.phila.gov/Property-Histor...CP-2022-006807

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by Dan1

Looks like there was a permit issued for that Target back in January. I wonder what that's all about? Maybe Target will hang onto the lease and do something else with the space?
https://li.phila.gov/Property-Histor...CP-2022-006807

Interesting. Or maybe the landlord was already aware that Target was not going to renew their lease and quickly snapped up a new tenant? Figers crossed!

On second thought, it says “no change of occupancy”. So maybe Target had plans to renovate but decided to pull out entirely instead ?

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by PHLJD13

There really isn’t an excuse. The high concentration of petty crime and drug-fueled panhandling in East Market is objectively effecting both commercial and residential viability in that pocket. This summer, I relocated to another Center City neighborhood after residing in that vicinity for 4 years because the quality-of-life issues became too much. I used that Target multiple times weekly and the best description of the area is fetid. After navigating discarded needles and feces smeared on the sidewalk, there was inevitably one or more panhandlers at the door and usually at least one fentanyl zombie roaming inside. The oblivious PPD officer playing on his phone at the door was never much of a deterrent. There absolutely is a sufficient market for a mini-Target in that location, there is a high concentration of upper-end rentals (the Collins apartments are right above it, the Girard and Ludlow are a half-block away). If commercial amenities continue to close, other renters will eventually follow.

I love learning new words. Never heard fetid before but after a quick dictionary search it does fit the area. I never experienced any used needles in that immediate area nor feces over the summer, although it doesn’t surprise me that that was present. The panhandlers outside were always a real annoyance. I think that 7/11 draws them to that area cause I always see them outside of that store. Several partners at my law firm that make ~2-5M a year live in that immediate vicinity so your point about high end housing over there is spot on. We really need a plan for this area. As much as it’s improved over the past 10 years, I mean just look at 12th and Chestnut on google maps street view 10 years ago, the area is really starting to backslide.

12th & Chestnut, July 2013: https://maps.app.goo.gl/dT7oFG9w3YLrTSe28?g_st=ic
12th & Chestnut, Nov 2020: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ALjvZFfBEAy5AEKc6?g_st=ic

[Dan1]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Interesting. Or maybe the landlord was already aware that Target was not going to renew their lease and quickly snapped up a new tenant? Figers crossed!

On second thought, it says “no change of occupancy”. So maybe Target had plans to renovate but decided to pull out entirely instead ?

Woods Construction does work primarily for retail tenants. They list this Target store on their website as starting work in 2022, likely referring to this permit for Target.

Also worth noting the PetSmart in the basement remains vacant since PetSmart closed in 2020.

[Redddog]

Bummed about that target. It's a definitly a haven for homeless and zombies outside but the business itself always appeared to be fine. It was always packed in there.

I am shocked to hear that they weren't cutting it.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Interesting. Or maybe the landlord was already aware that Target was not going to renew their lease and quickly snapped up a new tenant? Figers crossed!

On second thought, it says “no change of occupancy”. So maybe Target had plans to renovate but decided to pull out entirely instead ?

Could be the case. The article mentioned they plan to renovate a lot of mini stores.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by Dan1

Woods Construction does work primarily for retail tenants. They list this Target store on their website as starting work in 2022, likely referring to this permit for Target.

Also worth noting the PetSmart in the basement remains vacant since PetSmart closed in 2020.

There was a petsmart in the basement there?

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PHLJD13

There really isn’t an excuse. The high concentration of petty crime and drug-fueled panhandling in East Market is objectively effecting both commercial and residential viability in that pocket. This summer, I relocated to another Center City neighborhood after residing in that vicinity for 4 years because the quality-of-life issues became too much. I used that Target multiple times weekly and the best description of the area is fetid. After navigating discarded needles and feces smeared on the sidewalk, there was inevitably one or more panhandlers at the door and usually at least one fentanyl zombie roaming inside. The oblivious PPD officer playing on his phone at the door was never much of a deterrent. There absolutely is a sufficient market for a mini-Target in that location, there is a high concentration of upper-end rentals (the Collins apartments are right above it, the Girard and Ludlow are a half-block away). If commercial amenities continue to close, other renters will eventually follow.

I would never want to live on or too close to east Chestnut. Aside from being in center city and walking distance from many better areas there is nothing appealing about it right now. I may live 7 miles away but there are certain things I dont have to deal with when stepping outside my door such as human waste on sidewalks, pungent odors coming from locations where people have urinated and homeless or heroin addicts sleeping all over the sidewalk. It is not appealing.

[cardeza]

I think the public wants to see change.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20230314.html

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

I think the public wants to see change.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20230314.html

Maybe. It's obviously a very narrow survey in terms of questions and quite open ended, but it's disappointing that it doesn't explicitly addresses cleanliness, trask,litter, dumping, etc.

These surveys have the ability to drive the narrative to create the impression other topics don't matter. Well it looks that way if you didn't ask about them.

My number one issue by a mile is trash, litter, dumping. Period full stop. And it has a knock on effect on all of the others.

I just get the sense that most of these candidates don't know how to effect any actual change. It's dispiriting.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by cardeza

I think the public wants to see change.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20230314.html

I think you may be right.

https://6abc.com/amp/philly-street-r...lice/12950107/

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I think you may be right.

https://6abc.com/amp/philly-street-r...lice/12950107/

This shit enrages me. I don’t know what the solution is. How do you punish someone with nothing to lose?

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

This shit enrages me. I don’t know what the solution is. How do you punish someone with nothing to lose?

The first step is to actually pull people over, ticket people, arrest people.

No one takes police or the law seriously here because it's not enforced, we've all seen police literally watch something go on in front of them and do nothing about it unless it keeps continuing on, and on and they have to do something.

But I also understand this current admin hasn't been the best to work with so especially have covid toppled everything.

https://www.phillypolice.com/crime-maps-stats/

Prior to covid homicides were up but not at high levels, luckily this year it seems they are down but not too much.

Hopefully with the new Admin we will see a big change in the city government, and attitude, if that changes we will already be 50% better off, the next 50% is putting the work in to make changes.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The MFL has not run 3 car trains since the 1920s, and hasn't run anything less than 6 on every train since the 1990s.

I thought I was tripping, I don't know why I thought I saw 3 car train sets lately.

I'm lost inception.

[Knight Hospitaller]

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[Knight Hospitaller]

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[nemesisinphilly]

Zoning Notice for Piers 38 and 40

https://eclipse.phila.gov/phillylmsp...ctId=570664322

Nothing exciting, just dividing them into two separate lots.

What's the latest on these. Did they both get added to the historic register or is that still in process?

Did Blatstein buy these last year or did he back out? Can't remember the details on this parcel.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The MFL has not run 3 car trains since the 1920s, and hasn't run anything less than 6 on every train since the 1990s.

Well technically 3 married pairs, but who is counting