HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Business, Politics & the Economy


View Poll Results: Who should be the next mayor of Ottawa?
Mark Sutcliffe 8 15.38%
Catherine McKenney 43 82.69%
Bob Chiarelli 1 1.92%
Other 0 0%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #741  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2022, 4:53 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,195
How Mark Sutcliffe rode the bike lanes issue to his stunning election victory
The longtime broadcaster and successful entrepreneur pounced on perhaps the biggest strategic error of the mayoral campaign

Andrew Duffy, Jacquie Miller, Ottawa Citizen
Oct 26, 2022 • 35 minutes ago • 7 minute read


Consider the challenge that confronted Mark Sutcliffe when he toed the starting line of the mayoral race in late June.

Having never before mounted an election campaign, the political novice had to build the operational side of his team and develop a full policy platform – all while marketing himself to more than 700,000 voters in 24 municipal wards.

He had less than four months to do it. And to win, he had to overcome the popularity and expertise of two-term councillor Catherine McKenney, one of the few civic heroes to emerge from the leadership vacuum amid the “freedom convoy” truckers’ occupation of downtown Ottawa.

McKenney enjoyed a substantial lead, according to early public opinion polls. A Mainstreet Research poll conducted July 23-24 found McKenney had 34 per cent support among decided voters with Sutcliffe well behind at 14 per cent.

Yet, on election night, Sutcliffe cruised to victory with majority (51.4 per cent) support, according to the unofficial results. McKenney finished second with 37.9 per cent of the vote.

“I would hazard to say it was a slow-moving, crushing victory,” said Nik Nanos, founder and chairman of Ottawa’s Nanos Research. “It’s a definitive win for Mark Sutcliffe. Now he has a strong mandate to be the mayor and to help shape the policies coming out of city hall.”

So how did Sutcliffe do it in four months flat?

A longtime broadcaster and successful entrepreneur, Sutcliffe was a somewhat reluctant entry into the mayoral contest. He did not announce his candidacy until June 29 when he told supporters at Brookshire Park in Kanata that he was running for mayor to improve the city’s safety, transit and affordability.

His decision to make that announcement in Kanata, rather than near his home in Wellington Village, spoke to a critical element of his campaign strategy: win the suburbs.

“I want to make sure every part of this city is represented,” Sutcliffe said at his launch event. “I care a lot about the people of Kanata and the people in the suburbs and the rural areas of this city, as well as the urban area.”

His chief rival, McKenney, represented the downtown ward of Somerset West. An experienced, active city councillor, McKenney’s public profile was heightened by their forceful defence of beleaguered residents during the truckers’ occupation. Of all the progressive voices on city council, McKenney now had a powerful political base on which to build a mayoral campaign.

When the traditional NDP vote is combined with those voters who simply want change, it can deliver a progressive candidate between 20 and 30 per cent of the vote, according to a former member of Mayor Jim Watson’s past campaign teams. It meant, the strategist said, McKenney needed only to broaden their appeal to middle-of-the road voters to all but assure themselves of victory.

Sutcliffe, meanwhile, had to win decisively in the suburbs and rural areas to have any chance. He would get there on a bicycle.

Curiously, for someone whose public image is so closely knitted to marathons and fitness, Sutcliffe seized on the issue of bike lanes to define both McKenney’s brand and his own.

Sutcliffe called McKenney’s bike lane proposal – to collapse 25 years’ worth of bike lane construction into a four-year, $250 million investment – impractical and divisive. As mayor, he said, he would not favour bikes over cars.

“He used the cycling issue to define McKenney as a downtown, single-issue candidate, and not the candidate for everyone,” said Nanos. “What was important for the Sutcliffe campaign was not fighting that on a policy basis, but using it to define his opponent as narrowly focused on cycling and downtown.”

Nanos called McKenney’s bike policy the biggest strategic error of the campaign. “McKenney was very passionate about that issue, but it just did not resonate with voters.”

The policy didn’t sell in the suburbs, says Jerald Sabin, assistant professor at Carleton University’s School of Public Policy and Administration, which allowed Sutcliffe to position himself as someone who would serve the whole city, while not departing radically from the direction of Mayor Jim Watson.

“Ottawa is a very centrist city,” Sabin said.

Sutcliffe’s path to victory also depended on making the contest a two-person race. He could not afford to allow former mayor Bob Chiarelli to bleed votes from him in what was expected to be a close contest, and so Sutcliffe set about framing the election as a “clear choice” between McKenney and himself.

Early in his campaign, Sutcliffe focused criticism on McKenney to reinforce the idea that the election was about their competing visions. Many of his early news releases focused on McKenney’s policies rather than his own platform.
McKenney was drawn into the fight, and it left Chiarelli on the sidelines.

The strategy paid dividends for Sutcliffe on election day as Chiarelli’s support disintegrated: He garnered just 5.1 per cent of the vote.

For their part, McKenney sought to brand Sutcliffe as a developer-friendly candidate and a political neophyte unqualified for the job of mayor. McKenney sought to knit him to Jim Watson and the “old boys club” at city hall that they blamed for its dysfunction. Sutcliffe stood for the status quo, McKenney said, not change.

McKenney was aided by Horizon Ottawa, an activist group that landed one of the most significant tactical blows of the campaign against Sutcliffe when it accused him of hosting a “cash-for-access” fundraiser at a Lansdowne Park condominium – the same kind of event that he had criticized as a Citizen columnist. Attendees were invited to donate up to $1,200.

McKenney reinforced the perception that Sutcliffe was hiding his ties to developers by publishing a full list of major donors, and challenging other candidates to do the same.

The attacks served as an inflection point after which Sutcliffe became more pointed and personal in his attacks on McKenney. During a subsequent discussion with the Citizen’s editorial board, he branded McKenney “hard left” and their policies as “activist” and “expensive.”

The first two months of the campaign had been relatively quiet. Sutcliffe, because of his late entry, was still building his campaign machinery – a sign committee, a canvassing committee, a data team – and putting together an election platform.

“Time really wasn’t on his side,” said the former Watson campaign strategist.

But the Sutcliffe campaign hit its stride in September just as voters were tuning into the election following Labour Day.

His profile was bolstered by a punishing schedule of debates – seven in 10 days – that some regard as the campaign’s turning point. Sutcliffe performed well on stage and was able to deliver a digestible message to voters, in no small part thanks to his broadcast skills.

“I think those debates were a positive turning point for his campaign,” said the former Watson campaign official. “He’s just a really good communicator.”

In the debates, Sutcliffe marketed himself as a non-partisan centrist who could end the infighting at city hall and keep tax hikes to 2.5 per cent. He suggested McKenney’s left-wing agenda would cost taxpayers dearly, particularly the bike lanes and fare free transit for young people.

McKenney countered those charges – and sought to appeal to fiscal conservatives – by announcing they would cap budget increases at 3 per cent. McKenney also vowed to take the city in a progressive direction with no cuts to city services, a fight against climate change and an end to chronic homelessness.

A key part of any campaign strategy is the selection of key words and phrases to explain and define a candidate.

McKenney used the word “bold” to describe their platform, while Sutcliffe leaned on the word “balanced.” McKenney promised a “world class city” that was “vibrant, green, healthy and connected,” while Sutcliffe’s motto was “safe, reliable and affordable.”

Sutcliffe tore a page from “the Jim Watson playbook,” said Luc Turgeon, an associate professor in political science at the University of Ottawa.” “He focused on issues that would have attraction for middle class homeowners: limited tax increases and incremental change when it comes to infrastructure.”

In early October, a Nanos poll for CTV News found that Sutcliffe had closed the gap on McKenney. The poll showed five percentage points separated McKenney (29 per cent) from Sutcliffe (24 per cent) with a sizable number of voters (35 per cent) still undecided.

The poll suggested the McKenney campaign had not been able to grow its base or expand its support into the suburbs. It also pointed to the coalition that would ultimately put Sutcliffe over top – the older, suburban, small-c conservative voters who tended to get themselves to polling stations on election day.

“Voters think of these choices in terms of risk,” Nanos said. “I think Mark Sutcliffe looked like the less risky choice.”

In the final two weeks of the campaign, McKenney launched more aggressive attacks on Sutcliffe, in an effort to reverse the trend. But it was too late.

The candidates’ images had already been cast in voters’ minds: McKenney was the candidate for cyclists. And Sutcliffe would ride off to a new job a city hall.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ection-victory
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #742  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2022, 5:39 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 27,610
Interview of Sutcliffe from CBC Ottawa Morning.

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...ottawa-morning

Of note, he says he plans on ensuring diversity and representation throughout the City on Committees (3:55).

We shall see.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #743  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2022, 2:30 AM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,195
Candidates, expert surprised by voter turnout of only 44%
Compared to the rest of the province, Ottawa had a higher turnout

Nicole Williams · CBC News
Posted: Oct 26, 2022 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 12 hours ago


Ottawa had one of the higher voter turnouts for municipal elections across the province on Monday night, but the city still only saw 44 per cent of eligible voters cast a ballot.

That's up from the 42.5 per cent turnout in Ottawa's 2018 municipal election, but means only 316,260 of the city's 722,227 eligible voters went to the polls this year, according to Elections Ottawa's preliminary numbers.

If compared to other cities, however, that's a lot. Toronto, Oakville, Newmarket and London had under 30 per cent voter turnout, while Windsor saw 31.5 per cent.

Early numbers from the Association of Municipalities of Ontario show 36 per cent turnout across 301 of 444 municipalities that held local elections.

Some experts were expecting a higher turnout after seeing record-breaking turnout for advanced polls. Another reason expected to draw voters was the first competitive mayor's race in 12 years as incumbent Jim Watson was not seeking re-election.

Rideau-Vanier ward had the lowest turnout with just 37 per cent.

"It's not very many votes at all," said ward candidate Laura Shantz, who lost to Stéphanie Plante by 323 votes Monday night. "I think that in itself contributed to the results we saw."

Rideau-Vanier ward had the lowest turnout with just 37 per cent.

"It's not very many votes at all," said ward candidate Laura Shantz, who lost to Stéphanie Plante by 323 votes Monday night. "I think that in itself contributed to the results we saw."



Zachary Spicer, an associate professor with York University's School of Public Policy said while he is somewhat surprised, municipal elections typically see the lowest civic engagement.

He says people feel a disconnect between the problems they face and what city council can do about them.

"A lot of the major issues that are front and centre for a lot of people right now are inflation, cost of living, economy, jobs concern, still wondering about COVID, the war in Ukraine," Spicer said.

"There's a lot of stuff happening out there which I think [is] affecting people. Obviously none of those issues can really be solved at the municipal level."

Mark Sutcliffe, who Ottawans elected Monday as the city's new mayor, was also surprised by the low turnout.

"When I was talking to people over the last week, I felt a strong sense of engagement in the election. You're always going to encounter people who aren't paying attention, but for the most part I ran into people and knocked on doors and heard a response that they're going to vote."

Sutcliffe, speaking to CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning, said he understands it's part of a larger trend of low turnout, but feels humbled by the fact that more than 161,000 people did vote for him.

Then there's simply the matter of convenience.

"I go to school and I have midterms," said Ottawa resident Francis Kara on why he didn't vote. "I don't have the time."

Mariah Fridgen said she wanted to vote, but felt she didn't know enough about the candidates.

"I think a lot of young people are the same way they just get stuck in their everyday lives and don't think about it and then it comes time and then it's like 'I haven't looked into any of these people,'" she said.

Others suggest they would vote if there was a possibility of casting a ballot online.

Ontario has offered the option for municipal elections for about two decades now, but there's no provincial standard for conducting online polls.

If a municipality opts to use an alternative method, like Belleville, Brockville and Kingston do to some extent, it is left to set up its own voting guidelines using a vendor of its choice.

Spicer said it's an option Ottawa should consider if it wants more people to participate in municipal elections.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...nout-1.6629404
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #744  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 2:56 AM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,195
Ottawa 2022 Mayoral election: Poll-by-poll results

Not seen on this map, Bob Chiarelli won 17 polling stations. They were all in retirement homes, hospitals, or long term care facilities.




Ottawa 2022 Mayoral Election: Margin of victory by ward

Overall results: Sutcliffe 51.37%, McKenney 37.88%

McKenney's best ward:
  • Ward 14, Somerset: 73.3% of the vote
Sutcliffe's best ward:
  • Ward 20, Osgoode: 74.7% of the vote




Ottawa 2022 Election: Margin of victory for each city Councillor

The closest races were:
  • Darouze over Thompson by 238 votes (2.2%)
  • Kelly over Duguay by 243 votes (2.6%)
  • Plante over Shantz by 323 votes (2.6%)




https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelwbuettel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #745  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 11:56 AM
Marshsparrow Marshsparrow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,668
Perfect illustration - the areas against amalgamation, city services and in general who don't like the city - decided who would be mayor of the city. Can't make this stuff up.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #746  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 12:11 PM
waterloowarrior's Avatar
waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
National Capital Region
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 9,252
People think taxes in the City are higher, but someone in Osgoode is likely paying 0.924%-1.01% tax rate (depending on if they get commuter transit/full time fire fighters), while Russell is 1.12% and North Dundas is 1.16%
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #747  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 3:18 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,195
Can Ottawa elect a really progressive mayor?
Unless progressive councillors start to strategically push for downtown intensification, maybe not.

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Oct 28, 2022 • 1 day ago • 3 minute read


On the day that Mark Sutcliffe officially joined the race to become mayor, back on June 29, Earl Washburn tweeted this: “I don’t know much about him (don’t listen to right wing talk radio), but he is definitely going to be the front runner. Thanks to amalgamation, Ottawa is mostly a suburban city. Very hard for progressives like Catherine McKenney to do well city-wide.”
Article content

When one reader immediately challenged Washburn, saying that “The media calling someone the front-runner is self-fulfilling,” Washburn shot back. “The media’s not calling him the frontrunner, *I* am,” he wrote. “I know Ottawa very well.”

It’s difficult to argue otherwise, given Washburn’s prescience.

A senior analyst with EKOS Research Associates and, no less significantly, a self-described “electoral geography nerd,” Washburn believes that the geographic fabric of Ottawa, coupled with its almost-genetic makeup as a small-c conservative town, makes it unlikely that voters here will elect an ultra-progressive mayoral candidate such as McKenney. Possibly ever.

The suburbs and rural areas are where you tend to find more property owners concerned about keeping taxes low so it’s no accident that most of the more progressive councillors—Catherine McKenney, Jeff Leiper, Shawn Menard, Theresa Kavanagh—have traditionally been elected in the city’s core or closely surrounding areas.
Article content

Voters hoping to see another progressive like Marion Dewar in the chains of office would do well not to hold their breath.

There’s a belief among many “election nerds,” Washburn tells me, that amalgamation has made it impossible for progressives such as McKenney or Alex Munter, the latter whose election trajectory in 2006 was almost exactly that same as McKenney’s this year, to win the mayoralty in Ottawa. Many of those same nerds contemplate if that was then-Ontario premier Mike Harris’s plan, and not his stated goal of cost savings, when his government pushed for amalgamation of large cities in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

“Before amalgamation, we only had really one progressive mayor with Marion Dewar,” says Washburn. “It was a challenge just with the old city boundaries. But now we have all these suburbs added to the city, making it so much more difficult.”
Article content

Just look at Hamilton, a historically working-class city that just barely elected former Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath as mayor on Monday, the first progressive mayor since amalgamation in 2001.

“And that’s Hamilton,” he says. “Ottawa is not a working-class city. It doesn’t have that left-wing background.”

Looking back at Ottawa’s 2006 election, businessman Larry O’Brien’s 32,500-plus vote plurality over Munter all but disappears if you only look at the results in the 10 pre-amalgamation wards. (The boundaries pre- and post-amalgamation don’t perfectly match, so it’s difficult to make an exact comparison.)

But that’s the Ottawa of old.

Mayoral vote tallies by ward in Monday’s election haven’t yet been released, but Washburn says he won’t be surprised if McKenney received more votes than Sutcliffe inside the Greenbelt.
Article content

Today’s Ottawa is increasingly dominated by the suburbs and beyond. By the city’s own estimate, just over 480,000 residents, or 44.5 per cent of Ottawa’s population, reside in the 10 most urban wards, compared to nearly 600,000, or more than 55 per cent, living outside that core.

And unless progressive councillors start to strategically push for downtown intensification, fill the office towers and grow their numbers, that gap will grow. By 2034, the city predicts its suburbs and rural areas will have grown by almost 140,000 residents, compared to fewer than 45,000 more in the core.

Washburn isn’t suggesting that disconsolate McKenney supporters throw up their hands and move to Hamilton. If a conservative city like Calgary has elected centre-left mayors, progressive Ottawans need to find candidates that suburbanites can support.
Article content

“It’s not a question of which progressive can win in Ottawa,” he says. “It’s which, sort-of-ever-so-slightly centre-left candidate can win in the city of Ottawa.”

He points to Mathieu Fleury, who stepped down after three terms as councillor in Rideau-Vanier, as someone who could have fit that bill. “He’s liberal-oriented, and he’s not part of the Watson Club, so that would have helped him.

“Someone like that can get elected,” he says. “Ottawa is a small-c conservative city, but it’s also capital-L Liberal city.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...gressive-mayor
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #748  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 3:20 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,195
Sutcliffe takes mayor's chair with all wards, but inner core which went to McKenney
Mayor-elect said he would respect whole city in victory speech

CBC News
Posted: Oct 29, 2022 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 7 hours ago


The closer Ottawans live to the city's downtown core, the more likely they were to want Catherine McKenney as mayor.

Meanwhile, Mark Sutcliffe took all but five of the city's 24 wards in Monday's municipal election, according to final voter numbers released by the City of Ottawa on Friday.

The five he didn't win went to McKenney, and were all concentrated around the city's inner core.



Visualized on a map, the wards Sutcliffe won encircle McKenney's wards and confirm election narratives.



McKenney launched their campaign for mayor in the aftermath of the convoy and won the wards most affected by the occupation of downtown streets by the largest margins.

McKenney took Somerset ward — the ward they won twice as a councillor — with 73.3 per cent of the vote. They also took Capital ward, Rideau-Vanier, Kitchissippi and Rideau-Rockcliffe.

But Sutcliffe picked McKenney's promise to put $250 million toward the building of bike lanes over the next 25 years as a wedge issue to differentiate their not dissimilar campaigns. During CBC Ottawa's televised debate he said rural residents won't ride their bikes in the winter.

"Parents are not going to take their kids to hockey practice on a bicycle, they're not going to take their parents to a doctor's appointment. We need a plan that respects the residents throughout this community.

"I've heard over and over again during this campaign when I've knocked on doors in Kanata, in Orleans and Barrhaven and Stittsville and the rural parts of our city, that people don't want so much money ... invested in bike lanes."

McKenney responded by saying people wanted options to commute and investment was necessary improve bike lanes as well as transit and roads.

In his victory speech, Sutcliffe promised to represent all of Ottawa, including the downtown core.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...nney-1.6633836
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #749  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2022, 9:36 PM
YukonLlama YukonLlama is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 155
I really hope that with all the additional density in the core we will eventually see more urbanist mayor come into office. Amalgamation really screwed McKenny's chances but I dont think this will be the end to the downtown "revitalization" question. If someone could repackage McKenny's platform, without outright announcing the bike lane investment plan, I think it could pass. People don't know what they want a lot of the times until they see something in action.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #750  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2022, 10:55 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by YukonLlama View Post
I really hope that with all the additional density in the core we will eventually see more urbanist mayor come into office. Amalgamation really screwed McKenny's chances but I dont think this will be the end to the downtown "revitalization" question. If someone could repackage McKenny's platform, without outright announcing the bike lane investment plan, I think it could pass. People don't know what they want a lot of the times until they see something in action.
I think we are building outer suburbs as fast as we are adding urban units. Also many of those new retiree condo dwellers aren't going to be voting for a progressive candidate even if they might vote for an urbanist. Actually I put myself in this category. I'd love a more urbanist mayor but McKenney was more poverty reduction than city building. Bicycle lanes aside which was a bogus plan of sleight of hand borrowing so hard to support.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #751  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 1:02 AM
Williamoforange's Avatar
Williamoforange Williamoforange is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
I think we are building outer suburbs as fast as we are adding urban units. Also many of those new retiree condo dwellers aren't going to be voting for a progressive candidate even if they might vote for an urbanist. Actually I put myself in this category. I'd love a more urbanist mayor but McKenney was more poverty reduction than city building. Bicycle lanes aside which was a bogus plan of sleight of hand borrowing so hard to support.
If the core/inner greenbelt wants more electoral power, they actually have to let people live there.

Ottawa Population inside the greenbelt ~537k
Ottawa Population outside the greenbelt ~508K

Inside the greenbelt: (133K total)
McKenney 71k
Sutcliffe 62k

Outside the greenbelt: (148K total, 11% more)
Sutcliffe 100k
McKenney 48k

Difference in population ~30k (5.7%), Difference in votes 42K (36%).

Vote percentages: Inside greenbelt ~25% voted, outside the greenbelt ~29% voted.

Half of the cities population lives outside of the greenbelt. Over 3/4 of the cities population lives in areas that would meet the definition of car centric suburb. Secondly, its not like our urban councillors are actually all that urban minded, we had a supposedly Urban Councillor deny a road being a Minor corridor because they thought allowing commercial (as part of mixed use) was a bad idea and another defend a secondary plan that kept a major corridor limited to 4 stories regardless of the step back....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #752  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 2:12 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williamoforange View Post
If the core/inner greenbelt wants more electoral power, they actually have to let people live there.

Ottawa Population inside the greenbelt ~537k
Ottawa Population outside the greenbelt ~508K

Inside the greenbelt: (133K total)
McKenney 71k
Sutcliffe 62k

Outside the greenbelt: (148K total, 11% more)
Sutcliffe 100k
McKenney 48k

Difference in population ~30k (5.7%), Difference in votes 42K (36%).

Vote percentages: Inside greenbelt ~25% voted, outside the greenbelt ~29% voted.

Half of the cities population lives outside of the greenbelt. Over 3/4 of the cities population lives in areas that would meet the definition of car centric suburb. .
Yes and a lot of inside the greenbelt is very suburban. I know some of the elite neighborhoods fight development but most of this is giant SFH infill destined for a DINK couple not much is actual density though Landsdowne phase two will see a huge fight and I'm sure the 50 floor is an opening offer just to make sure they can get 30.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #753  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 3:44 AM
Williamoforange's Avatar
Williamoforange Williamoforange is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Yes and a lot of inside the greenbelt is very suburban. I know some of the elite neighborhoods fight development but most of this is giant SFH infill destined for a DINK couple not much is actual density though Landsdowne phase two will see a huge fight and I'm sure the 50 floor is an opening offer just to make sure they can get 30.
Realized my comment may have come off as disagreeing with you instead of adding to your point...The latter is what I was going for.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #754  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 12:27 PM
GeoNerd GeoNerd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON.
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Bicycle lanes aside which was a bogus plan of sleight of hand borrowing so hard to support.
Did you even look into the financials of the plan? What the ignorant pro-Sutcliffe boomer/hick crowd can’t seem to comprehend is that those same “bicycle lanes” are getting built either way. Except they will now cost double or triple the amount McKenney would have built them for, even with the low-interest loans factored in. They will also take 6x longer to build. So the Sutcliffe crowd that was so against providing vulnerable road users basic infrastructure just agreed to spend significantly more on cycling than the progressive candidate. Swindled by a low-budget talk radio host.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #755  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 12:39 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
Did you even look into the financials of the plan? What the ignorant pro-Sutcliffe boomer/hick crowd can’t seem to comprehend is that those same “bicycle lanes” are getting built either way. Except they will now cost double or triple the amount McKenney would have built them for, even with the low-interest loans factored in. They will also take 6x longer to build. So the Sutcliffe crowd that was so against providing vulnerable road users basic infrastructure just agreed to spend significantly more on cycling than the progressive candidate. Swindled by a low-budget talk radio host.
That is only half true. As some said previously. If in 15 years we are going to rip up a whole street and build a bike lane it is certainly not true that borrowing now to build it on it's own is revenue neutral. At all. Some people suggested some of the more ad hoc lanes could be done now. Interest and maintenance still an issue and I am skeptical but it is at least possible. Most of it is debt and calling it green bonds so some ethical funds give you a .001% discount on interest doesn't change the fact in 20 years we will still be paying these bonds will need to repair all those bike lanes add new lanes and fund any other priorities.

As the election shows there is no interest from suburban voters to pay for such infrastructure which is why the elaborate plan was designed to hide the cost so I can't fault the campaign for the idea but let's not pretend it's some magic way to get infrastructure for free. Especially as we'd be borrowing at elevated rates where the interest is no longer free.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #756  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 6:05 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
I think we are building outer suburbs as fast as we are adding urban units. Also many of those new retiree condo dwellers aren't going to be voting for a progressive candidate even if they might vote for an urbanist. Actually I put myself in this category. I'd love a more urbanist mayor but McKenney was more poverty reduction than city building. Bicycle lanes aside which was a bogus plan of sleight of hand borrowing so hard to support.
We are building outer suburbs faster than we are adding urban units, yes, but also we are adding urban units and lots of them.

What we're not very good at is adding anything in the middle.
__________________
___
Enjoy my taxes, Orleans (and Kanata?).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #757  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 7:24 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
We are building outer suburbs faster than we are adding urban units, yes, but also we are adding urban units and lots of them.

What we're not very good at is adding anything in the middle.
Is the missing middle because we can't add them or because the demand isn't there? What would a missing middle unit be? Townhouses in inner suburbs?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #758  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 7:27 PM
phil235's Avatar
phil235 phil235 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Is the missing middle because we can't add them or because the demand isn't there? What would a missing middle unit be? Townhouses in inner suburbs?
That's part of it, but I'd also include 3-4 storey walk-up apartments in established neighbourhoods. There's lots of demand for those.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #759  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 7:40 PM
bartlebooth bartlebooth is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 477
There are some examples of missing middle housing being added to older neighbourhoods throughout the city. I live in one of them. As far as I can see however, the costs of this housing is insane (e.g. high 900k range to buy, $2800 for a one bedroom to rent, $3200 for a two bedroom to rent, etc...). Prices like this will send 99% of the population to suburban Ottawa.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #760  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 7:42 PM
JHikka's Avatar
JHikka JHikka is offline
ハルウララ
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Is the missing middle because we can't add them or because the demand isn't there? What would a missing middle unit be? Townhouses in inner suburbs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
That's part of it, but I'd also include 3-4 storey walk-up apartments in established neighbourhoods. There's lots of demand for those.
I'm guessing a lot of it would be similar to what has gone up around Robinson, although 9fl is an extreme example. Demand is almost certainly there for more walkups and multi-level residential builds in the core. Just a matter of getting approvals and getting them built.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Business, Politics & the Economy
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:40 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.