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[BK1985]

From what I gathered from the NYT article is that Hochul’s plan is now mostly cosmetic and not adding to capacity which is so shortsighted. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong as I only scanned it quickly.

[k1052]

Hochul is going to axe Penn South.



With Cuomo Gone, Hochul Revises Plan for Penn Station.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/penn-station-nyc-hochul.html

Gov. Kathy Hochul is expected on Wednesday to unveil a scaled-down vision for an ambitious development in the heart of Manhattan that would include a redesigned Pennsylvania Station, putting her imprint on a signature project of her predecessor, according to state officials familiar with the plans.

Her proposal would make upgrading Penn Station, the widely detested rail station, a higher priority than other aspects of former Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s sweeping plan, including adding more tracks to the station.

Expanding the rail capacity at Penn Station, which handles trains operated by the Long Island Rail Road, New Jersey Transit and Amtrak, is considered critical to upgrading the region’s public transit infrastructure.

The Hochul plan would delay that expansion and make relatively modest changes to the larger Cuomo development plan in the area surrounding the station. It reduces the overall size but not the number of the 10 new towers that make up the development, whose scope had become a major concern of the community, and added below-market residential units and public spaces, including largely car-free bike and pedestrian streets that would span several blocks.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by BK1985

From what I gathered from the NYT article is that Hochul’s plan is now mostly cosmetic and not adding to capacity which is so shortsighted. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong as I only scanned it quickly.

I think that Phase 1 is cosmetic, and Phase 2 adds to capacity.

[NYguy]

^ Give her time. She’s running for election, she gas to get the job. Penn South still has the planning to go through. It will get done. But the critics won’t be happy with this at all. They wanted a stop to the towers.

I actually thought she would reduce the space by 20% or more.



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/penn-station-nyc-hochul.amp.html

By Matthew Haag and Patrick McGeehan
Nov. 3, 2021

The proposed development would include some buildings that would be among the tallest in New York City and rise across several blocks surrounding the rail hub. Under Gov. Hochul’s plan, about 1.4 million square feet of space would be lopped off the buildings, just a 7 percent reduction from her predecessor’s proposal.

At 18.3 million square feet, the new Penn Station project would be slightly larger than Hudson Yards, the mega site of offices, residences and retail that opened in 2019 as the largest private development in American history.

However, the project’s 1,800 residential units will now include 540 permanently below-market units, which was not part of Mr. Cuomo’s proposal, officials said. It also adds eight acres of public space, including a plaza roughly the size of Rockefeller Plaza that would limit car traffic — a reimagining of the streets around the station at a moment when many transportation advocates in the city believe more street space should be reserved for pedestrians and cyclists.

The Penn Station neighborhood development would still largely benefit a single company, Vornado Realty Trust, one of the city’s largest office developers, which owns four sites in the development zone and part of a fifth.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

^ Give her time. She’s running for election, she gas to get the job. Penn South still has the planning to go through. It will get done. But the critics won’t be happy with this at all. They wanted a stop to the towers.

I actually thought she would reduce the space by 20% or more.



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/penn-station-nyc-hochul.amp.html

By Matthew Haag and Patrick McGeehan
Nov. 3, 2021

The Critics would love a new Penn Station though. They apparently just don't realize that things cost money, and it's not gonna come out of thin air. Sure there are technically other ways of finding the funding but good luck getting that this far into the process. Besides this area needed some more density anyway.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by NYguy

^ Give her time. She’s running for election, she gas to get the job. Penn South still has the planning to go through. It will get done. But the critics won’t be happy with this at all. They wanted a stop to the towers.

I actually thought she would reduce the space by 20% or more.



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/penn-station-nyc-hochul.amp.html

By Matthew Haag and Patrick McGeehan
Nov. 3, 2021

For clarity I am not unhappy seeing Penn South postponed indefinitely. Rest of her plan is fine to me.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by k1052

For clarity I am not unhappy seeing Penn South postponed indefinitely. Rest of her plan is fine to me.

It’s not that. There are still public hearings to be had regarding that. The better way to look at it is how it’s always been explained. We’re looking at two different projects as far as Penn Station is concerned. The expansion for capacity, and the cosmetic for the existing monstrosity. It will all be clarified. But the towers on the expansion were always a decade away.

[Crawford]

This makes sense, and is very good news. Get the Penn rebuilding going instead of waiting forever for the Empire Complex to pass all approvals.

Penn South doesn't need to move forward initially; it's dependent on the new tunnel.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by k1052

For clarity I am not unhappy seeing Penn South postponed indefinitely. Rest of her plan is fine to me.

That isn't happening. The NYT article explains the process.

Empire Complex is basically being divided into two phases. The first phase is the rebuilding of the existing Penn.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by NYguy

It’s not that. There are still public hearings to be had regarding that. The better way to look at it is how it’s always been explained. We’re looking at two different projects as far as Penn Station is concerned. The expansion for capacity, and the cosmetic for the existing monstrosity. It will all be clarified. But the towers on the expansion were always a decade away.

This is like how I explain why I have unloaded the dishwasher but not reloaded it when asked.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That isn't happening. The NYT article explains the process.

Empire Complex is basically being divided into two phases. The first phase is the rebuilding of the existing Penn.

sure

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by k1052

sure

I'm not sure what you're arguing. Read the article and read the press release.

[BK1985]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I think that Phase 1 is cosmetic, and Phase 2 adds to capacity.

That makes more sense. I’m disappointed that the total space is getting slightly cut. If anything there should be more density, more residential. The bikeway looks nice based on the renderings that I saw. It’s a shame that the cross town tram never got a serious shake.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That isn't happening. The NYT article explains the process.

Empire Complex is basically being divided into two phases. The first phase is the rebuilding of the existing Penn.

It’s happening. It’s basically the Cuomo plan. You can see the renderings ( though as before, not designed towers).


https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governo...penn-station-and-revitalized-surrounding



She is basically combining what would have been two projects, purting emphasis on the existing station. But she’s no fool. It’s why only 1 msf of space was cut. It’s all still on, and FX Fowle was just signed for another year to make the site plan happen.

New, World-Class Train Facility

-Creates a single level, double-height train hall that doubles passenger circulation space on the new public level from approximately 123,000 square feet to approximately 250,000 square feet and eliminates the congested, cramped and crowded passageways in existing Penn Station

-Includes a 450-foot long sunlit train hall that is the size of Moynihan's and Grand Central's halls combined

-Simplifies navigation

-Creates clear sight lines to exits and entrances
Adds 18 more escalators or stairs and 11 more elevators to platforms

-Reduced Density

-Shaves off 1.4 million square feet of development from the previous plan and decreases heights for proposed buildings.

-Provides new design controls to protect views of the Empire State Building along 33rd Street

Public Realm and Social Services

-Adds ~8 acres of public space, including a 30,000-square foot plaza comparable in size to Rockefeller Plaza and mandates public space set-asides on each building site

-Creates a Public Realm Task Force comprised of community leaders and stakeholders, which will develop a plan of prioritized public realm improvements, to be funded by a Public Realm Fund, with initial revenue from redevelopment being dedicated to this fund

-Requires community facility spaces that will prioritize much-needed social services for the neighborhood, with a particular focus on New Yorkers experiencing homelessness

-Creates underground loading/unloading for MSG, taking trucks off the street

Affordable Housing

-Allows up to 1,800 residential units, of which 540 would be permanently affordable

-Mandates one building as residential, which will include 162 permanently affordable units - more than the entire number of residences that would be displaced if the southern expansion of Penn Station occurs

Public Transit Access and Shared Streets

-Expands new underground corridors to the Sixth Avenue IND line, allowing users of the 34th Street Herald Square Station (B, F, M, N, R, W lines) seamless access to Penn Station

-Nearly doubles the existing entrances to Penn Station from 12 to 20, and requires developers to add additional subway entrances and exits directly to and from buildings, ultimately reducing density and congestion at over-crowded entrances

-Widens sidewalks throughout the neighborhood and recommends that 31st, 32nd and 33rd Streets become shared streets that prioritize pedestrians

-Adds protected bike lanes and greatly expands bike parking while reducing vehicular parking

Pedestrian-Friendly Streetscape

-Limits the size of new building commercial lobbies

-Requires that 40% of every building frontage is an "active use" such as retail and community facilities

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

She is basically combining what would have been two projects, purting emphasis on the existing station. But she’s no fool. It’s why only 1 msf of space was cut. It’s all still on, and FX Fowle was just signed for another year to make the site plan happen.

I love a lot of these details. Not gonna say specifics ones because I feel like it would be almost a copy and paste of the list you already have lol.
Needless to say NYC underground is growing tremendously with this project. Is Penn underground connected with GCS underground? Because if they're not, they could connect them and create a massive underground area. Combine this with the East Side Access project, as well as other transit projects going on right now, and the several new big projects around GCS which add a lot of underground area like One Vanderbilt, 175 Park, etc. and it's so big.

[nlosborne1]

According to the statement, the heights of all buildings have reduced, specifically to preserve views of the Empire State Building. (Similar to 53W53 reduced to 1050 from 1250?)

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governo...penn-station-and-revitalized-surrounding

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by nlosborne1

According to the statement, the heights of all buildings have reduced, specifically to preserve views of the Empire State Building. (Similar to 53W53 reduced to 1050 from 1250?)

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governo...penn-station-and-revitalized-surrounding

Unfortunate but we'll still see some height here. Besides IMHO, I don't think the towers are the most exciting part of this project.

[Crawford]

Thinking about it, the Empire Station complex is really eight components. Today's news only covers two of the eight. This is why it's hard to keep track of all the moving parts:

1. Moynihan Station - completed
2. Penn Station - LIRR - under construction
3. Penn Station - NJT - NJ is supposedly formulating plans for a new concourse
4. Penn Station train hall/main concourse - today's NY announcement
5. Ten towers integrated into Empire Station complex - today's NY announcement
6. Penn South - phase II of today's NY announcement
7. Hudson River Tunnel - initial prep work ongoing
8. MSG site - TBD (could be complete relocation/rebuild with surface train hall and new towers, could be only removing underground MSG Theater for Penn expansion, could be minimal changes or nothing)

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by nlosborne1

According to the statement, the heights of all buildings have reduced, specifically to preserve views of the Empire State Building. (Similar to 53W53 reduced to 1050 from 1250?)

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governo...penn-station-and-revitalized-surrounding

Ugh, and to think the tallest only would have been 1,400 ish anyway, hopefully things can still change

EDIT: I wonder if it means all buildings or just the ones close to ESB (I think this is the only place in the article that mentions this)

- Shaves off 1.4 million square feet of development from the previous plan and decreases heights for proposed buildings.
- Provides new design controls to protect views of the Empire State Building along 33rd Street

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by nlosborne1

According to the statement, the heights of all buildings have reduced, specifically to preserve views of the Empire State Building. (Similar to 53W53 reduced to 1050 from 1250?)

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governo...penn-station-and-revitalized-surrounding

There were no heights to begin with, and there are no heights now. The towers have yet to be designed. She did reduce the size of the buildings slightly, but that doesn’t equate to height. All you have to do is look at what’s being built.


As far as the expansion goes, I know that the media wants to paint this in a particular light. But we’ve followed this particular development too long to be bamboozled by reporters who don’t borher to look at what’s really going on. They try to tell you the expansion isn’t happening, yet those same 10 towers are still in play. It really wouldn’t have taken much for them to put it together.

But anyway, the governor adds a little clarity…


https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-nyc/n...evealed-hochul-scales-back-cuomos-vision

New Penn Station Plan Revealed: Hochul Scales Back Cuomo's Vision
Hochul revised her predecessor's controversial plan to remake the rail hub and much of Midtown by adding housing and shrinking skyscrapers.


By Nick Garber
Nov 3, 2021

….. As of Wednesday afternoon, the state had not released plans for the new project, leaving some details — like building heights — up in the air. Construction would take four to five years, Hochul said. She would not give an estimated start date, but Newsday reported it could begin by late 2022.

….Pushback against Cuomo's Empire Station had centered around the plan's prioritization of commercial development ahead of transit improvements, as well as the need to demolish multiple blocks of Midtown in order to add tracks to Penn Station — entailing the destruction of St. John the Baptist Church on 30th Street, among other structures.

The New York Times initially reported that Hochul's plan would push that rail expansion further down the road, but the governor suggested otherwise Wednesday. She said rail expansion could begin soon alongside the station work.

BTW, for those of us keeping track, Cuomo’s version allowed for at least two residential sites.



https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/gov-hochul-advances-smaller-cuomo-penn-station-project/amp/

Hochul puts her mark on Cuomo’s Penn Station development plan


By David Meyer
November 3, 2021

Hochul’s plan presented Wednesday would keep Cuomo’s plan to finance renovations to Penn Station through the construction of 10 skyscrapers in the immediate vicinity — but reduce the overall size of those towers by 1.4 million square feet, she said during an afternoon press conference in Manhattan.

“We can scale it down and still generate the revenue we need to fund the transformation of Penn Station while benefiting the surrounding neighborhood,” Hochul said.

She said the state would not wait for the completion of the new Gateway tunnel under the Hudson River and additional track capacity at Penn to improve the passenger experience there.

”Gateway and Penn expansion, yes, are both projects I fully support. And we will get them done,” she said.

Hochul said her version of the Penn rehab will take four to five years to complete and cost $6 to $7 billion, funded by taxes on the new skyscrapers. The station will be renamed after a New Yorker when all is said and done, she said. MTA public materials about the project have dubbed it the “Empire Station Complex.”

“Has anybody ever asked the question why we have the largest transit hub in the Western Hemisphere, named after a neighboring state?” Hochul joked. “I believe the new station for New York should be named for a New Yorker, or something to do with how iconic New York State is, and how amazing it is.”

“There’ll come a time when people say, ‘I never even heard of Penn Station,'” she added.

So now, not only is the original Penn Station gone, she wants the name forgotten as well. I don’t know who advised her on that, but it’s ill—advised. And we already have Moynihan in the mix, let’s not make it even murkier.