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  #741  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 2:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
seems very wrong to use both public land and money and only get 1/3 public housing out of it, but the deal is done, lets get to building:

Consider that the rest of the WTC is also public land, with no housing, but private office space provided by private developers. The WTC was never intended to be for housing. They changed plans to get a tower built. But they want it built. Only so much affordable housing is gonna allow that to happen.
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  #742  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 3:27 AM
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I support the affordable component, and it could NOT work if it was primarily affordable. a third or so is a very good move. With no real commercial component, it needs the rest to be market housing to justify the cost. They want it done, and worked hard to get this really good compromise. I think a residential tower is wonderful for this community because it IS a neighborhood that has really bounced back from the destruction, both physical and psychological, from 9-11. It would be a sign that this isn't just a daytime, weekday neighborhood of commuters but part of a real, thriving neighborhood as well. I'm so glad for this project and hopes it gets started as soon as possible.
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  #743  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 12:31 PM
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Its something. Better than nada. So in a way, its a win for folks. They get affordable units and things happen.
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  #744  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 1:30 PM
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yeah, the deal is done, the building renders are sharp, no complaints, lets get to it.

but lets also be real, it could be 100% affordable, they just dont want it to be.

they want a fancy tower that reflects the wtc ensemble, not some utilitarian pj tower.
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  #745  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 2:07 PM
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This is so idiotic. Every additional unit of housing increases the taxpayer subsidy and reduces the local benefits (bc the whole point of dense housing at the WTC is to create a mixed-use complex, with tons of high-spending high earners, not to provide housing to poors, which can be done much more efficiently on lower value land). And the special benefits for WTC survivors are idiotic. They already received millions in compensation, they were highly unlikely to normally qualify for subsidized housing, and they're extremely unlikely to desire housing overlooking the horrible murder of their loved ones.

But if this is what it takes to get 5 WTC built, it had to be done. At least, a few months from now, this will finally start rising. It does appear to be an attractive tower.
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  #746  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 3:16 PM
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but lets also be real, it could be 100% affordable, they just dont want it to be.
No, it could not. This is an extremely large residential tower, and the only reason it isn’t taller is because of height limits. If you say the city or state can build a much smaller, 100-200 unit fully affordable tower, that may be closer to possibility. But in the real world - especially in New York City where it costs more to build anything - its not practical to build a fully affordable, 1,200 unit skyscraper.


And even if you could, people would never be happy.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/28/n...de-center.html

Quote:
Not everyone is happy with the updated plan.

“It’s a little depressing,” said Todd Fine, a member of the 100% Affordable coalition, who wanted to see a much greater degree of affordability for the last undeveloped public site on the 16-acre World Trade Center campus. He points to the faltering office market as a sign that now is the time to push for more affordable housing.

Maybe, he said, it’s time to consider bringing affordable housing to other parts of the neighborhood, like a long-delayed office tower nearby?

“Why don’t we make 2 World Trade Center fully affordable?” he said.

Yeah, why don’t we just convert the remainder of the site to a city housing project. Because the reality is that even the “affordable” units won’t be affordable for a large swath of the city. But these hypocrites don’t really care about that. No one has a right to live in Lower Manhattan. In every city, there are neighborhoods that people are simply priced out of, and New York is no exception. Now, it’s public land you say? Yes, and it still should be applicable to what the neighborhood is. Because we’re talking about private developers. If the state wants to sell the land outright, and build smaller, fully affordable buildings throughout the city, or use the funds to retain affordable units that are being lost, I’m on board with that. Enough with symbolism, like we’re seeing at Site K, and offer some real help.
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  #747  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 3:24 PM
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Oh, great. Now they're gonna push to make 2 WTC a giant housing project. Good luck with that.

"Affordable housing advocates" don't seem to understand the first thing about providing affordable housing. If you want to maximize affordable housing, get the biggest bang for the taxpayer buck by putting subsidized units on low cost land where market rate uses otherwise wouldn't have strong demand. Putting affordable housing on expensive land is ridiculously inefficient and short-sighted, and can even worsen housing problems by taking market rate units off the table.
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  #748  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 3:26 PM
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I wonder if case studies like 5 WTC will implore the city (or even state) to really ramp up on zoning improvements to allow for even more density/units.

I mean anybody who studies developments know that a development has to make financial sense and so, if these folks want more affordable housing, its about time to allow developers the breathing room to build them, all while making a tower financially feasible. One45 in Harlem, 5 WTC... all case studies as with many others. If the city wants to get serious about housing the masses, it needs to start doing things that actually will yield affordable housing, not just saying no all the time and demanding absurd requirements for approval to begin with.

421a is needed again and with a affordable requirement.
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  #749  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Oh, great. Now they're gonna push to make 2 WTC a giant housing project. Good luck with that.

"Affordable housing advocates" don't seem to understand the first thing about providing affordable housing. If you want to maximize affordable housing, get the biggest bang for the taxpayer buck by putting subsidized units on low cost land where market rate uses otherwise wouldn't have strong demand. Putting affordable housing on expensive land is ridiculously inefficient and short-sighted, and can even worsen housing problems by taking market rate units off the table.
Just considering the luck with 2 WTC, if it went the mixed use route, I personally and probally many others wouldn't mind it but they need to have the units there. In theory, a tower with that foot print could be the highest unit count tower in the world... in theory. Even if they allocated 1/2 of the space to residential, the other, office. Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if the office sector just doesn't want the leasing space considering all the cheaper alternatives in Midtown. Longer that parcel sits empty, the pricier it will be to lease. All the space being leased in Midtown could of filled several 2 WTC towers but Downtown just doesn't have the affinity unlike Midtown.

When we have rents approaching 5k, which is absurd and require most to have room mates to survive... the city needs housing. While of course this is speculative and just conversation, eventually 2 WTC needs to happen and provide some value to the city or region. Something is better than it sitting empty for another 20 years.
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  #750  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Oh, great. Now they're gonna push to make 2 WTC a giant housing project. Good luck with that.
Yea that's a bit ridiculous unless only a small part of the tower were affordable housing.

Something about AH in a ~1,300 foot skyscraper just seems off, a building that high is too expensive for AH, and to fit the spiral plan of the site that tower will by default need to be nearly as high as 1WTC. They don't need to be the nicest condos on earth or anything like Billionaires row but still pretty high end if at the WTC site.

So 5WTC could start within months then? That seems unreal. Awesome news though...
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  #751  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Oh, great. Now they're gonna push to make 2 WTC a giant housing project. Good luck with that.
It won't happen, but I have no doubt that's their next target.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I wonder if case studies like 5 WTC will implore the city (or even state) to really ramp up on zoning improvements to allow for even more density/units.
One thing the governor did do was try to get that ridiculous 12 FAR statewide on residential buildings removed. It makes no sense that New York City has the same residential FAR restrictions as less dense cities elsewhere upstate.. It hinders a lot of development, and only strengthens the housing crisis. But the other politicians wouldn't hear of it, because they fear NIMBYs don't actually want more people moving in. So the cycle will continue for now until they get enough people with balls to say, "you know what, as long as a building is going there anyway, why not increase the FAR?"
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  #752  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 9:16 PM
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Suggesting that 2WTC be a 100% affordable apartment building is so outlandishly ludicrous that it feels more like a spiteful threat than a well-intentioned proposal.

I'm hoping that Larry does the right thing and pay for it out of pocket if he feels the end creeping up on him, even if it's a completely vacant office tower.
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  #753  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2023, 2:39 AM
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It'll be another blocky tower on the skyline, but it's another step towards completing the rebuilding.

We've come a long way since this...


https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true





https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true





https://www.costar.com/article/11286...ith-apartments

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Last edited by NYguy; Jul 29, 2023 at 2:52 AM.
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  #754  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2023, 6:51 PM
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Those outdoor public spaces are going to be epic.

Hopefully the design remains the same.
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  #755  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2023, 2:13 AM
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The views from those terraces will be great.















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  #756  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2023, 4:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Those outdoor public spaces are going to be epic.

Hopefully the design remains the same.
I swear if they change the design I will be in tears. When this thing is finished it will be one of my top 5 favorite buildings in the whole city...with the current design that is.
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  #757  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2023, 6:10 PM
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Over on the YIMBY forums there are some more recent renders (leaked, I guess?) that show a pedestrian bridge connecting Liberty Park to the upper lobby of 5WTC. I hope it ends up being built to make the complex more cohesive.
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  #758  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 4:18 PM
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https://nypost.com/2023/08/11/9-11-s...g-ground-zero/

9/11 survivors divided over ‘weird’ offer of affordable apartments —overlooking Ground Zero





By Andrew Court
August 11, 2023


Quote:
The ultimate monument to moving on — or a misguided attempt at reparations?

Survivors and first responders devastated by the 9/11 terrorist attacks are divided over news that they can apply for “affordable” apartments in a ritzy new building just steps from Ground Zero.

The 900-foot skyscraper, 5 World Trade Center, will be constructed at the corner of Greenwich and Albany streets in lower Manhattan and is set to feature 1,200 plush apartments — and haunting views overlooking the site where more than 2,900 New Yorkers were murdered.

As part of a new agreement brokered by Gov. Kathy Hochul, 80 of the building’s required 400 rent-stabilized units will be set aside for New Yorkers directly impacted by the attacks — but some survivors are baffled by the deal.
Quote:
“I think it’s weird,” Marian Fontana bluntly told The Post. Her firefighter husband, David, was killed on 9/11, which also happened to be their eighth wedding anniversary.

The author, who lives in Brooklyn, bemoaned the lack of affordable housing in the Big Apple but has no plans to apply for one of the apartments.

“Would anyone want to live on the crash site where their loved one died?” Fontana, 57, asked. “I don’t want to even drive past there.”
Quote:
Online, others have expressed exasperation about the announcement after renderings of the skyscraper showed that it looked directly onto the 9/11 memorial pools at Ground Zero.

“Why would someone who went through a horrific experience and survived want to now live in that exact location?” one critic said, while another added: “Honestly wouldn’t want to live there if my loved one perished in that attack. Bad memories.”
Quote:
Households of three with an annual income between $50,840 and $152,520 will be eligible to apply for one of the 400 rent-stabilized apartments at 5 WTC -— with rents ranging from $1,271 to $3,813 a month.

However, it’s unclear whether those figures will also apply to the 9/11 survivors and first responders eligible for one of the 80 apartments set aside for them.

It also remains to be seen whether survivors and first responders will be chosen via a random lottery or whether their applications will be assessed by a team.

The Post has reached out to Gov. Hochul’s office for further information.

Brookfield Properties and Silverstein Properties are developing 5 WTC, with completion still several years away.

When asked about the application process for 9/11 survivors and first responders, both companies told The Post in a statement: “The specifics of the program are to be worked out with the New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal.”
Quote:
“There are a lot of questions,” Rachel Uchitel told The Post of the still murky application process.

The podcaster — who hosts Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel — lost her fiancé, Andy O’Grady, in the attacks and said the trauma still lives on almost 22 years later.

“What do they mean by survivors?” Uchitel, 48, asked, admitting confusion about who could qualify for the plush pads. “Do they mean someone who was actually in the building? Or someone who lost a loved one and has never been able to get their act together?”

Fontana concurred, saying: “So many people are affected [by 9/11] that it could become contentious.”
Quote:
John Feal, a 9/11 responder whose foot was partially amputated after being crushed by an 8,000-pound piece of steel at Ground Zero, also admitted that the application process could become acrimonious.

“When you put a number or a label on it, it starts to exclude,” Feal, 56, told The Post.

Tim Brown, a former FDNY firefighter who ran into the Twin Towers to save people on Sept. 11, also admitted that “the devil is in the details” and said kinks may need to be ironed out by officials.

However, he wholeheartedly welcomes the announcement and may apply for one of the 80 affordable apartments.

“It really made me grateful that people actually thought of us,” Brown, 61, told The Post, adding that he’s been compelled to spend ample time at Ground Zero, despite the fact that he lost around 100 firefighter friends.

Brown, who has retired from the FDNY, now volunteers at the 9/11 Museum and hangs with friends at O’Hara’s — a pub popular with first responders past and present.

“I don’t think most people with my history react the way I react,” he admitted, saying most people impacted by 9/11 would be too traumatized to consider applying to live in 5 WTC. “A lot of the guys and the families I know don’t go back down there. It’s hard and painful, and understandably so. I reacted differently.”

Brown, a Manhattan native who lives in Midtown, said a move downtown could be life-changing.

“My heart is down there. I don’t find it morbid,” he told The Post, praising officials for doing a “wonderful job” in rebuilding the area around Ground Zero.

“Yes, 9/11 is my whole life,” Brown — who was 38 at the time of the attacks — said. “I didn’t have kids, I didn’t get married … To be able to get a reasonably priced rental down there would enable me to do other things that I’d like to do.”
Quote:
But while the 9/11 survivors and first responders may be divided on whether they’d ever live at the site of their trauma, they are all still united in their grief as the 22nd anniversary of that fateful day fast approaches.

“The trauma never goes away,” Uchitel told The Post. “It’s something that’s in my bones. It’s a part of me.”

Fontana feels the same.

“It doesn’t feel like 22 years at all,” she mournfully stated. “Of course, you get up and you keep going. But you miss them all the time. You learn to live with it — but you never get over it.”


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  #759  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 4:20 PM
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  #760  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post

9/11 survivors divided over ‘weird’ offer of affordable apartments —overlooking Ground Zero

It feels weird because it is weird. Any vets been offered comped time shares in Baghdad?
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