Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Been thinking for a while that this is pretty likely to happen.

Originally Posted by lio45

All parties switch to liking FPTP as soon as they become in a position to be able to modify it. It's always like that! Yes, I'm cynical, but I'm also right

A more realistic way to "fix the problem" would be to get back to two political parties. The flaws of FPTP are perfectly bearable then.

Interestingly, the PQ and PLQ could each absorb almost all other parties.

The only pairings that can't work:
PQ and PLQ can't merge;
CAQ and QS can't merge;
PCQ and QS can't merge.

All the other merger combinations are within the realm of the possible.

Some examples:

CAQ could easily swallow the PCQ;
Then with the rise of the PQ and the CAQ bleeding half their support to it, it becomes a smaller-than-before, mostly federalist, pro-economy party, and thus a good fit for a merger with the PLQ;
Meanwhile, the PLQ would absorb QS (both being very urban, woke, very Montreal-based parties and good fits on many issues).

So in this scenario, PQ vs [PLQ + CAQ + PCQ + QS]

And the opposite extreme,
CAQ swallows PCQ (easy fit);
PQ restarts the merger talks with QS, prevails and absorbs it (QS having a hard ceiling at 15% ends up preferring some share of power within a bigger tent PQ)
PQ merges with CAQ (Ministers Drainville, Legault, etc. going "back home" after resoundingly failing their autonomist experiment...)

And in this scenario, PLQ vs [PQ + CAQ + PCQ + QS]

[lio45]

Yep. We don't need more than two parties anyway. The Big-Nanny-State Sovereigntist Party (light blue) and the Big-Nanny-State Federalist Party (red). This covers pretty much all the bases for nowadays' Quebec.

And of course, I'd save a bit of time by just not voting for either

[New Brisavoine]

QS will never accept to merge with the PQ, let alone with the PLQ. They are far too extremist (and full of themselves) for that. As for CAQ, it's highly unlikely they'll accept merging with PQ, as that would negate their entire history.

At most, there'll be electoral agreements, such as QS and PQ agreeing not to run candidates against each other, thereby reserving some constituencies for QS in exchange for QS supporting the PQ in government (but probably not participating in the PQ government).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

QS will never accept to merge with the PQ, let alone with the PLQ. They are far too extremist (and full of themselves) for that. As for CAQ, it's highly unlikely they'll accept merging with PQ, as that would negate their entire history.

At most, there'll be electoral agreements, such as QS and PQ agreeing not to run candidates against each other, thereby reserving some constituencies for QS in exchange for QS supporting the PQ in government (but probably not participating in the PQ government).

True but parties can also collapse if a sufficient number of their members defect to another party or parties. I think the CAQ is most vulnerable to this due to its very nature as a "coalition" in between the PQ and PLQ, the two main players at the time.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

True but parties can also collapse if a sufficient number of their members defect to another party or parties. I think the CAQ is most vulnerable to this due to its very nature as a "coalition" in between the PQ and PLQ, the two main players at the time.

These parties generally collapse quite quickly when turfed from power at least in other jurisdictions. These new sudden onset to power parties are pretty rare in most FPTP systems but Quebec electorate is uniquely volatile. It's really only the Anglo American world that still has FPTP so perhaps culturally that makes sense.

[Acajack]

These people are Canadians BTW. (Cough)

https://twitter.com/leb01234/status/...383000/photo/1

[New Brisavoine]

The Daily Fail is not exactly the best source of information... I tend to take everything they say with a big grain of salt.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The Daily Fail is not exactly the best source of information... I tend to take everything they say with a big grain of salt.

This news has been reported elsewhere though. I just picked the first one that popped up.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

These people are Canadians BTW. (Cough)

https://twitter.com/leb01234/status/...383000/photo/1

Hilarious. 10 kids means close to $70k a year in tax free child benefits in Canada and they go to Russia for a better life.

[Acajack]

Quebec Court of Appeal to rule on the constitutionality of laïcité (secularism) Bill 21 on Thursday.

Whichever way it goes I expect it will be appealled to the Supreme Court of Canada.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Acajack

These people are Canadians BTW. (Cough)

https://twitter.com/leb01234/status/...383000/photo/1

I suppose Russia didn't get the memo that everything happens in English...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I suppose Russia didn't get the memo that everything happens in English...

Indeed!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

These people are Canadians BTW. (Cough)

https://twitter.com/leb01234/status/...383000/photo/1

Definitely not "l’anglo moyen" though... those folks would be morons no matter what language they spoke.

You have to take social media with a grain of salt. Most of it is crap posted by the fringe element, IMHO.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Definitely not "l’anglo moyen" though... those folks would be morons no matter what language they spoke.

You have to take social media with a grain of salt. Most of it is crap posted by the fringe element, IMHO.

On most of the moronic aspects, you're right. But the whole "lots of people don't speak English here, what's up with that?" is very much an anglo thing. At least very disproportionately anglo compared to any other cultural grouping in the world.

And when I say "anglo" I am talking about the anglosphere. Not just Anglo-Canadians.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

On most of the moronic aspects, you're right. But the whole "lots of people don't speak English here, what's up with that?" is very much an anglo thing. At least very disproportionately anglo compared to any other cultural grouping in the world.

And when I say "anglo" I am talking about the anglosphere. Not just Anglo-Canadians.

Well duh. English is spoken now in every corner of the earth. Actually apparently that attitude also exists in the Russian world which is ironic. Of course Russia like most places besides Quebec has English announcements on its Metro and tourist oriented sights (not that they are swimming in tourists right now). I wonder if the airports were provincial responsibility Quebec might have the only ones in the world with French only signs.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Well duh. English is spoken now in every corner of the earth. Actually apparently that attitude also exists in the Russian world which is ironic. Of course Russia like most places besides Quebec has English announcements on its Metro and tourist oriented sights (not that they are swimming in tourists right now). I wonder if the airports were provincial responsibility Quebec might have the only ones in the world with French only signs.

Speaking of airports, in the Franco world, the word used for Terminal is Terminal; not Aerogare. As well, want to hit the duty free, everywhere in the world, the term "duty free" is used. Except in Quebec, where it's "Hors Taxes".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Well duh. English is spoken now in every corner of the earth. Actually apparently that attitude also exists in the Russian world which is ironic. Of course Russia like most places besides Quebec has English announcements on its Metro and tourist oriented sights (not that they are swimming in tourists right now). I wonder if the airports were provincial responsibility Quebec might have the only ones in the world with French only signs.

Self-awareness is always a good thing though.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

On most of the moronic aspects, you're right. But the whole "lots of people don't speak English here, what's up with that?" is very much an anglo thing. At least very disproportionately anglo compared to any other cultural grouping in the world.

And when I say "anglo" I am talking about the anglosphere. Not just Anglo-Canadians.

I've gone camping in Old Orchard, Maine with some die-hard separatists. They were told that the staff at the campground were bilingual, and demanded to be served in French.

In the USA.

Like, what?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I've gone camping in Old Orchard, Maine with some die-hard separatists. They were told that the staff at the campground were bilingual, and demanded to be served in French.

In the USA.

Like, what?

They exist in every culture for sure. I don't dispute that. But never like...

[harls]

It's like me going to the passport office in Saguenay and being a grade A penis, demanding to be served in English (ok, it's the federal goverment and not some private business.. but come on.. when in Rome).