Highways in Canada

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

You guys are so lucky being able to talk about road construction and widening.

We only had one BC expansion proposal............to widen HWY#1 from 4 lanes to 6 between Langley and Abbotford and potential, someday, to Chilliwack. Alas the project has been cancelled. It is the busiest trucking route in the province and literally connect Vancouver to the Interior and the rest of the country and between Langley to Chilliwack has daily traffic volumes of between 60,000 to 75,000 and averages 2 accidents a day between Lang/Chill but in BC even one extra lane on a road that hasn't changed since the 1960s is just too much to ask.
Any extra lanes or replacements of the George Massey have also put on hold. The tunnel remains exactly the same as it was when it was built in the 1960s and carries over 100,000 vehicles a day on 2 lanes in each direction.

Outside of HWY#1 betwtween Van & Langley, there are no 6 lane highways ANYWHERE in the province. 6 lane regular streets are also non-existent anywhere in Vancouver save rush hour on Granville, Burrard, and Hastings Street in the city and the Kingsway in Burnaby.

BC is what happens when people cannot think forward. Seriously, why is there no freeway to downtown?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

BC is what happens when people cannot think forward. Seriously, why is there no freeway to downtown?

Highway Revolt back in the days? I really wish that Highway 99 continued as a freeway and joined TCH at either British Properties (West Vancouver) or PNE (East Vancouver) though.

[Innsertnamehere]

I really don't see an issue with the lack of a downtown freeway in Vancouver. The suburban highway network is substandard for sure though, even by European standards.

[sonysnob]

The South Fraser Perimeter Highway (SFPR) was a disappointment too... It should have been built as a freeway right from the get-go, particularly seeing as its principle purpose is to connect the Port of Tsawwassen to the rest of the country's highway network.

The left turn from the SFPR westbound to the Hwy 91 Connector southbound has proven to be a problem for trucks flipping over. It's not a good sign for any province's highway engineering department when they can't even design an at-grade left turn properly.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

BC is what happens when people cannot think forward. Seriously, why is there no freeway to downtown?

One of the best things to never happen in New York City's history was that the Trans-Manhattan Mid-Manhattan and Lower Manhattan Expressways were never constructed.

The scars of urban freeways blight the US today, especially ones that displaced existing neighbourhoods.

I'm quite glad that Vancouver (and Canada to some extent) avoided destroying cities to create freeways.

That being said, BC's highways could use work in connecting cities within a region.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by wave46

One of the best things to never happen in New York City's history was that the Trans-Manhattan and Lower Manhattan Expressways were never constructed.

The scars of urban freeways blight the US today, especially ones that displaced existing neighbourhoods.

I'm quite glad that Vancouver (and Canada to some extent) avoided destroying cities to create freeways.

That being said, BC's highways could use work in connecting cities within a region.

Couldn't agree more! US destroyed the vast majority of their city centres with freeways, Vancouver's was spared, due in large part to what we witnessed being done to Seattle with the construction of I-5 down it's spine, destroying neighbourhoods and over 5000 homes and doing some major damage to it's downtown.

The great freeways we envy so much down-south did irreparable harm to the fabric and soul of most US centres. Where in Europe do you see freeways through city centres?

That said, our regional roads and many bridges and one notable tunnel are underbuilt and long past their 'sell-by dates'.

[craner]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

You guys are so lucky being able to talk about road construction and widening.

We only had one BC expansion proposal............to widen HWY#1 from 4 lanes to 6 between Langley and Abbotford and potential, someday, to Chilliwack. Alas the project has been cancelled. It is the busiest trucking route in the province and literally connect Vancouver to the Interior and the rest of the country and between Langley to Chilliwack has daily traffic volumes of between 60,000 to 75,000 and averages 2 accidents a day between Lang/Chill but in BC even one extra lane on a road that hasn't changed since the 1960s is just too much to ask.
Any extra lanes or replacements of the George Massey have also put on hold. The tunnel remains exactly the same as it was when it was built in the 1960s and carries over 100,000 vehicles a day on 2 lanes in each direction.

Outside of HWY#1 betwtween Van & Langley, there are no 6 lane highways ANYWHERE in the province. 6 lane regular streets are also non-existent anywhere in Vancouver save rush hour on Granville, Burrard, and Hastings Street in the city and the Kingsway in Burnaby.

That is unbelivably dumb! Bloody NDP.

[ssiguy]

Behold the suburban Vancouver connection between the only truck crossing for the border to HWY#1, the only east-west highway in the Lower Mainland 18 km away................4 lanes with 15 lights, going by 2 schools, a fire station, thru the heart of a community of 10,000, a maximum speed of 80km/hr, a route still heavily used by farm tractors, lined with houses and development, no overpasses, and a sign advising travellers to reduce speeds to 50 km/hr when 'children playing on the highway' near the schools.................you couldn't make this stuff up.

Even if you don't agree with urban freeways, Greater Vancouver and all of BC's highway network would have been considered inadequate 30 years ago. Little Oxford county with 110,000 in SW Ontario has more 6 lane roadways than all of BC. The roads are so badly connected that there are only 3 interchanges in the whole province where a freeway meets a freeway.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I really don't see an issue with the lack of a downtown freeway in Vancouver. The suburban highway network is substandard for sure though, even by European standards.

I believe there isn't a freeway in Vancouver period. It's absolutely crazy that one rather small group of people is allowed to negatively impact the economy of the nation so much. The feds should force through a 10+ lane freeway so goods can flow freely to other markets.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Behold the suburban Vancouver connection between the only truck crossing for the border to HWY#1, the only east-west highway in the Lower Mainland 18 km away................4 lanes with 15 lights, going by 2 schools, a fire station, thru the heart of a community of 10,000, a maximum speed of 80km/hr, a route still heavily used by farm tractors, lined with houses and development, no overpasses, and a sign advising travellers to reduce speeds to 50 km/hr when 'children playing on the highway' near the schools.................you couldn't make this stuff up.

Even if you don't agree with urban freeways, Greater Vancouver and all of BC's highway network would have been considered inadequate 30 years ago. Little Oxford county with 110,000 in SW Ontario has more 6 lane roadways than all of BC. The roads are so badly connected that there are only 3 interchanges in the whole province where a freeway meets a freeway.

I would have guessed a low number but 3 is pathetic for a province that apparently now has 5 million people. The only other province that might be worse is Manitoba.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I would have guessed a low number but 3 is pathetic for a province that apparently now has 5 million people. The only other province that might be worse is Manitoba.

I have drive in Manitoba. While the lights on some of their highways are annoying, they at least have interconnected highways.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I believe there isn't a freeway in Vancouver period. It's absolutely crazy that one rather small group of people is allowed to negatively impact the economy of the nation so much. The feds should force through a 10+ lane freeway so goods can flow freely to other markets.

To be pedantic, the #1 Freeway does skirt the northeast corner of the City of Vancouver and has 4 exits within the city limits. The 99 also technically ends in Vancouver as well, as does Knight Street a limited access freeway of sorts in all but name. (blue roads at the bottom)

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Behold the suburban Vancouver connection between the only truck crossing for the border to HWY#1, the only east-west highway in the Lower Mainland 18 km away................4 lanes with 15 lights, going by 2 schools, a fire station, thru the heart of a community of 10,000, a maximum speed of 80km/hr, a route still heavily used by farm tractors, lined with houses and development, no overpasses, and a sign advising travellers to reduce speeds to 50 km/hr when 'children playing on the highway' near the schools.................you couldn't make this stuff up.

Even if you don't agree with urban freeways, Greater Vancouver and all of BC's highway network would have been considered inadequate 30 years ago. Little Oxford county with 110,000 in SW Ontario has more 6 lane roadways than all of BC. The roads are so badly connected that there are only 3 interchanges in the whole province where a freeway meets a freeway.

Those 3 (or 5? if you count the 91A and Knight Street) freeway to freeway interchanges are all pretty much here

[yaletown_fella]

Vancouver and Toronto both have a huge lack of freeways within the city boundaries due to NIMBY/resident activist movements over the past 20-50 years.

There is a stale proposal on the shelf for a 6 lane underground toll freeway from Pearson-running under Eglinton, then running south-east under the UP line by Black Creek continuing under the Gardiner, north east (with a tunnel access structure conveniently built over the Greenwood subway yards), and then continuing under the Go/VIA rail corridor until it joins up with the Guildwood Highway (2A) . It would be easy to build access points over the rail lines without leaving a scar in the urban fabric. The proposal calls for the project to be financed by the private sector.

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/toronto-tunnel-proposal-2017

I could see somthing similar in Vancouver with a west side highway and an east side (loop) highway with a connector under King Edward.

The West Side Highway would be tunneled under the West-East mall (Arbutus) traveling from Richmond and then linking up with the Granville Street Bridge.

An East Side (Loop) toll highway under the Millennium and Expo Lines would have a very easy tunnel access point around Boundary Rd and the Trans Canada Hwy as well as at Terminal and Main.

I imagine it would be easier to connect my 2 fantasy underground highways by tunneling under King Edward vs tunneling under Broadway.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Behold the suburban Vancouver connection between the only truck crossing for the border to HWY#1, the only east-west highway in the Lower Mainland 18 km away................4 lanes with 15 lights, going by 2 schools, a fire station, thru the heart of a community of 10,000, a maximum speed of 80km/hr, a route still heavily used by farm tractors, lined with houses and development, no overpasses, and a sign advising travellers to reduce speeds to 50 km/hr when 'children playing on the highway' near the schools.................you couldn't make this stuff up.

Even if you don't agree with urban freeways, Greater Vancouver and all of BC's highway network would have been considered inadequate 30 years ago. Little Oxford county with 110,000 in SW Ontario has more 6 lane roadways than all of BC. The roads are so badly connected that there are only 3 interchanges in the whole province where a freeway meets a freeway.

Remember when Highway 10, 15 and the Fraser Highway were all 2 lane goats trails not too long ago. Oh wait only the 15 is 4 lanes through its entire length. Still a goats trail though.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Behold the suburban Vancouver connection between the only truck crossing for the border to HWY#1, the only east-west highway in the Lower Mainland 18 km away................4 lanes with 15 lights, going by 2 schools, a fire station, thru the heart of a community of 10,000, a maximum speed of 80km/hr, a route still heavily used by farm tractors, lined with houses and development, no overpasses, and a sign advising travellers to reduce speeds to 50 km/hr when 'children playing on the highway' near the schools.................you couldn't make this stuff up.

Jesus, I just looked at it. Are there any plans at all for a freeway to replace this?

[ssiguy]

^^ Are you kidding? BC doesn't build freeways. Period. BC also has the lowest standards in the country in terms of freeway on/off ramps in terms length required. By the way just in case you thought our 'trucking' route couldn't get any worse.........3 of the lights on the road are at the base of very steep hills so trucks have to start and crawl up the hills. When there is ice or snow most of the transports can't use the route.

Suburban regular roads are also completely inadequate. There isn't a single full 6 lane road anywhere in BC except in rush hour when they take away the parking on Granville, Burrard & the Kingsway in Burnaby. The road and highway system really is bizare and is going no where and probably never will. The HWY#1 widening has been reduced to just putting up variable speed limit signs like the 80,000 vehicles on a 4 lane road can go anywhere near the speed limit. The George Massey Tunnel replacement actually has counter-flow so if you are heading northbound on the tunnel in the afternoon 5 rush hour lanes merge into one. There is not a single 6 lane regular road bridge over any freeway in the province.

BC has announced that they are finally going to replace the over capacity, old, thin, and dangerous Pattula Bridge that connects NW to Surrey. The 4 lane bridge is being replaced by a ...............you guessed it, another 4 lane bridge.

[libtard]

When I hear anyone talk about a new highway in metro van involving some sort of bored tunnel I just laugh. Keep dreaming. This isn’t Seattle. We don’t have the political will to pull something like that off

[someone123]

The Pattullo bridge story is sad. Aside from the bridge itself being undersized and seismically unsafe, the connecting streets in New Westminster are constantly backed up and are designed like small neighbourhood streets with on-street parking (creating multiple merge points to allow for half a dozen cars to be parked at rush hour) and traffic calming measures.

There's clearly a planning problem in that New West is the natural spot for a lot of regional traffic to flow through but the municipality itself answers only to its own small group of residents.

In Vancouver, NIMBYs seem to have a stranglehold on infrastructure and planning. The public discourse is also slanted toward nice-to-have lifestyle stuff that is of little value to the people who are stuck with hour-long commutes in and out of the city because of the single family zoning and poor transportation options.

Seattle seems similar. I listened to some kind of planning guru talk about the Alaska viaduct closure there and he simply waved his hands and said that people will find a way to get around despite the closure (roads just cause more traffic!). He pointed out that one good adaptation was that rush hour now starts around 5:00 am there. He didn't seem to have a clear sense of what would or wouldn't be reasonable for travel times or what the value of the time saved is. He said it was basically OK because travel times didn't shoot up by "say, 20 or 30 minutes each way" (!). It sounded like he thought of the viaduct closure as a way to free up development land and get people walking, biking, and taking transit, but didn't think much about traffic volumes and speed. Discussions in Vancouver are similar. This perspective is great if you've got $2M to buy a nice downtown condo and you don't need to commute anywhere.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

^^ Are you kidding? BC doesn't build freeways. Period. BC also has the lowest standards in the country in terms of freeway on/off ramps in terms length required. By the way just in case you thought our 'trucking' route couldn't get any worse.........3 of the lights on the road are at the base of very steep hills so trucks have to start and crawl up the hills. When there is ice or snow most of the transports can't use the route.

Yes I can see that, fascinating not in a good way.

So your saying that there isn't any drawing of a potential freeway connecting Hwy99 and Hwy1? I know the NIMBY force is strong but I find it very disappointing to see that people are sleeping on this..