The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Congestion is a big factor. London has bad congestion so rapid transit to separate transit from auto traffic is huge.

By contrast, in a city like Kingston where congestion is minimal, there's not much point to separating transit.

Why not do it now?

Pick the busiest corridor and build it. When the city grows, extend it. That may be the trick to keeping congestion at bay.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Here is London's:


It is better than Waterloo's which was neutral for travel time iirc, but not that great compared to an all BRT system that is way cheaper. The transit user benefit gains do not justify the higher capital costs.

Mike is basically wanting a metro system built and wants to see a comparison between street LRT and grade separated. It looks like in London's a metro line wasn't even in the realm of possibility and they chose between BRT and LRT.

It doesn't seems as though they considered the differences in capacity in the comparison though. I guess all the modes must have sufficient so it's a non-issue.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Mike is basically wanting a metro system built and wants to see a comparison between street LRT and grade separated. It looks like in London's a metro line wasn't even in the realm of possibility and they chose between BRT and LRT.

Well, full LRT is $45m per km. Adding one km of tunnel and one underground station (the difference between base BRT and Full BRT iirc) is at least a hundred million bucks. Even that change doesn't justify itself in transit user benefits according to the analysis.

While time on the system might decrease, I doubt total trip time would follow suit as you reduce the number of stations to account for their massive costs.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why not do it now?

Pick the busiest corridor and build it. When the city grows, extend it. That may be the trick to keeping congestion at bay.

If Kingston were to build a metro (Down Princess Street as it is the busiest corridor) It would probably be the smallest city to have a full blown metro (unter 200k). If it were to happen, I would think it would run from the waterfront up Princess to the Kingston Centre... and that 10 or so km would be quite expensive.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

If Kingston were to build a metro (Down Princess Street as it is the busiest corridor) It would probably be the smallest city to have a full blown metro (unter 200k). If it were to happen, I would think it would run from the waterfront up Princess to the Kingston Centre... and that 10 or so km would be quite expensive.

That's actually only 3km. I think you're thinking of the Cat Centre when you say Kingston Centre, that route would be 9km and crosses the length of the city.

(That's how small Kingston is, and how absurd it would be to build a metro here).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That's actually only 3km. I think you're thinking of the Cat Centre when you say Kingston Centre, that route would be 9km and crosses the length of the city.

(That's how small Kingston is, and how absurd it would be to build a metro here).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lausanne_Metro
Some food for thought.

I live in Sudbury. They could build a 13km LRT here and it would be well served.

[Coldrsx]

The City of Edmonton has selected TransEd Partners to complete the design and build, operate, maintain and partially finance the Valley Line LRT project. This proponent team includes the following partners: Bechtel, Bombardier Transportation Canada Inc., Fengate Capital Management Ltd., Ellis-Don, Transdev, Arup Canada, and IBI Group.


http://transformingedmonton.ca

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That's actually only 3km. I think you're thinking of the Cat Centre when you say Kingston Centre, that route would be 9km and crosses the length of the city.

(That's how small Kingston is, and how absurd it would be to build a metro here).

Nope, I meant the Kingston Centre where the 'major transfer station' is. I see you are correct though... In that case, might as well add in the extra 7km by running some line down Sir John A. lol

[Chadillaccc]

First full look at Calgary's new Tuscany Station. The first station on the outside of the Stoney Trail Ring Highway, though not the farthest station from downtown.



Eamons Camp by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Tuscany Bright by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Tuscany C-Train Station by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Tuscany Interior by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Tuscany Interior by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Tuscany View by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Tuscany View by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Tuscany C-Train Station by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

[VIce]

The station layout has come a long way. The old stations with a head followed by a platform with no overlap - such that pretty much none of the platform was sheltered from the cold - never made much sense to me. Now if only there were proper shelters downtown ...

[Chadillaccc]

Yeah, the new downtown stations look nice but they really screwed the pooch as far as winter comfortability goes. They could have added two of the heated shelters that they installed at all of the existing stations for the 4-car refit at each of the downtown stations. At least Telus Sky's atrium will act as a climate controlled area for people at First Street Station, City Hall Station has the BVC South Block, and Third Street Station has The Core.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Yeah, the new downtown stations look nice but they really screwed the pooch as far as winter comfortability goes. They could have added two of the heated shelters that they installed at all of the existing stations for the 4-car refit at each of the downtown stations. At least Telus Sky's atrium will act as a climate controlled area for people at First Street Station, City Hall Station has the BVC South Block, and Third Street Station has The Core.

Would be even more sheltered if they had a road above them...!

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Would be even more sheltered if they had a road above them...!

Sure, but ultimately if they did Calgary would likely be in the same place as Edmonton is now - stuck at a single line for 30 years and just now starting to build new lines. While it might be nice to have a downtown subway, I'd personally take the built out system we have because we didn't build the subway over a subway and a stub of a system as a result.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Sure, but ultimately if they did Calgary would likely be in the same place as Edmonton is now - stuck at a single line for 30 years and just now starting to build new lines. While it might be nice to have a downtown subway, I'd personally take the built out system we have because we didn't build the subway over a subway and a stub of a system as a result.

Maybe, maybe not. It would be nice though if it was something we were building now rather than 30 years away, and we had saved the money rather than building stations in Tuscany and past Fish Creek.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Would be even more sheltered if they had a road above them...!

You mean they will be more sheltered when a road goes above the them We have two subway lines proposed Milo, and both are going to get built. The best part is, even after both get built, we will still have the downtown Free Fare Zone on the still-above-ground Blue Line, something that very few cities have and something a lot of people love about our downtown

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

You mean they will be more sheltered when a road goes above the them We have two subway lines proposed Milo, and both are going to get built. The best part is, even after both get built, we will still have the downtown Free Fare Zone on the still-above-ground Blue Line, something that very few cities have and something a lot of people love about our downtown

Please enlighten us about these two subway lines... As far as I know there is barely funding for them, and the Green line won't be built until 2025... So in 2050 maybe...

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

Please enlighten us about these two subway lines... As far as I know there is barely funding for them, and the Green line won't be built until 2025... So in 2050 maybe...

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

You mean they will be more sheltered when a road goes above the them We have two subway lines proposed Milo, and both are going to get built. The best part is, even after both get built, we will still have the downtown Free Fare Zone on the still-above-ground Blue Line, something that very few cities have and something a lot of people love about our downtown

I appreciate the optimism Chad, and I'm fairly confident the Green Line will have at least the downtown/south Centre St. section underground. But we have zero movement on the Red Line being put underground, so while 2050 is maybe a bit pessimistic, it still seems to be more than a decade away.

Like many of the things I say, I hope I'm wrong!

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I appreciate the optimism Chad, and I'm fairly confident the Green Line will have at least the downtown/south Centre St. section underground. But we have zero movement on the Red Line being put underground, so while 2050 is maybe a bit pessimistic, it still seems to be more than a decade away.

Like many of the things I say, I hope I'm wrong!

What is wrong with it being a decade away? The Green Line will be under construction in 2 years. After that is done, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Red Line Subway go ahead, especially with the way this city goes balls to the wall with transit expansion. We'll eventually have two underground lines through downtown, along with at least three kilometers and two stations of the Centre Street portion. Not too shabby. Plus our system is already awesome, so I'm not really too concerned. We're over 1 million people smaller than the next biggest of the metro areas in this country, and our rail rapid transit system is less than 10 km shorter than all of the big 3. By the time the green line is done, it'll likely be the biggest single urban rail system (finally including a subway line as well ) in the country at least for a short while, at 100 km long. Not only that, but the Ctrain is second only to the Skytrain in average speed. The only rush there is for us to create more underground infrastructure is due to how fast ridership is growing.

And Skahhigh, I don't understand the snotty wording of your inquiry? You basically answered (in an extremely over exaggerated way) your own inquiry. Both lines are proposed, as I said in my post. What does it matter if they're built in 3 years or in 35 years? I said "both are going to get built." You really need to get over whatever beef it is you think you have with me. It seems like, to you, every single thing I post is worthy of your contempt. Just get over it already

[SkahHigh]

^it's not personal, but you're living in a dream world. You see "possible" things thirty years in the future and mention them as if they'll happen in the next year.

Do you really believe that once the Green line gets built Calgary will have the biggest rail transit system in the country? What about Toronto's massive transit expansion (subway extensions, Crosstown, Finch West LRT)? What about Montreal's 50km line? Vancouver's Evergreen Line? You see things as though only Calgary does this and only your city has vision for the future.

So given that Toronto is paying $7 billion to expand transit and Montreal is paying around $5-7 billion, how do you expect Calgary (a smaller city, so less budget) to finance an $8 billon transit expansion, even with the help of the federal government? I'm sorry, but that's just completely unrealistic.

Source (Wiki):

As for a possible underground leg in downtown (under 8 Avenue South), the cost of the project will be at least C$800 million (in 2012 dollars), but its priority has been lowered because there is no funding available for it. However, the overall cost of this and other projects could be at least C$8 billion.

May I remind you a subway tunnel costs 250 million per kilometer. Very expensive stuff.

The Green line will be built and that's very good for you guys but please, keep it real Chad.
Bold statements like this is what makes people think you have a booster attitude. It's okay to be excited about transit projects, but don't push it. You don't see me talking about what the Metro will look like in thirty years...

Don't forget proposed doesn't mean built now unless you're a transit planner for the city of Calgary, allow me to be skeptical about your statements, especially given you have very few knowledge of the subject.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

^it's not personal, but you're living in a dream world. You see "possible" things thirty years in the future and mention them as if they'll happen in the next year.

Do you really believe that once the Green line gets built Calgary will have the biggest rail transit system in the country? What about Toronto's massive transit expansion (subway extensions, Crosstown, Finch West LRT)? What about Montreal's 50km line? Vancouver's Evergreen Line? You see things as though only Calgary does this and only your city has vision for the future.

So given that Toronto is paying $7 billion to expand transit and Montreal is paying around $5-7 billion, how do you expect Calgary (a smaller city, so less budget) to finance an $8 billon transit expansion, even with the help of the federal government? I'm sorry, but that's just completely unrealistic.

Source (Wiki):


May I remind you a subway tunnel costs 250 million per kilometer. Very expensive stuff.

The Green line will be built and that's very good for you guys but please, keep it real Chad.
Bold statements like this is what makes people think you have a booster attitude. It's okay to be excited about transit projects, but don't push it. You don't see me talking about what the Metro will look like in thirty years...

Don't forget proposed doesn't mean built now unless you're a transit planner for the city of Calgary, allow me to be skeptical about your statements, especially given you have very few knowledge of the subject.

Unless you used to work for Enron, anyway.