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  #7461  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2023, 2:55 PM
thewave46 thewave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
Really begs the question how long do you think a modern era arenas life span will be assuming it meets the needs for a team today and well in the future? Ottawa is a bad example because of its location. But lets say rogers arena? Scotiabank arena? And equally as interesting rogers place?

We seen a shift in arena construction in the early 90's and then again in the mid 2000's one can argue arenas have peaked when you seen rogers place and climate pledge arena, ide say they have learned from past mistakes in terms of leaving room for expansion, renovation ect. I would imagine you wont be hearing about a new arena in those markets for 100+ years or until the concrete and steel start eroding. But what about Toronto, Montreal, Tampa bay, buffalo ect?

How much money would MLSE or any market have to be leaving on the table every season for them to pull the trigger? Will it even be viable in 2050 to build an arena they essentially double in cost every 15 years. Wont be long before its a price tag of 1.5 billion+ to build a modest arena
The lifespan of a piece of sporting infrastructure is directly correlated with how much government can be conned into providing funding for a new one at this juncture.

So, something like Maple Leaf Gardens lasted decades because the Carleton Street Cashbox made money regardless of how little investment made over that time. I imagine the ACC will have a similar lifespan, because the private sector loves having the monopoly on that size of facility in the heart of Toronto. A private company won't spend a nickel unless they can see the return for it. As for amenities, have things really changed, other than luxury boxes? The last generation of arenas built pretty much maximized the upper-crust potential revenue.

Skydome will last a similar time, because Rogers is going to have a heck of a time selling the concept of a government handout one of the most reviled and successful businesses in the country.

Now, if this is metro Atlanta, the lifespan changes.

Ultimately, sporting venues haven't changed that much over the course of a century. Fenway Park and Wrigley Field still host baseball today. Sure, there's more luxury boxes along with some amenities, but attending a sporting event is just that.
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  #7462  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2023, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
That was the old design, unless they reverted back. Over on their website https://overactivemedia.com/venue/ this is the design they have up.
I was only looking for a post in this thread to quote to mention the podcast, not claiming anything about the images in it.
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  #7463  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
They could go bigger then 25,000 and sellout no problem, both for the Raptors and the Leafs. Montreal sells out their 21,000+ arena each game, the current largest arena in the league. There is no need for a new NHL arena in Toronto as The Scotiabank Arena is one of the better NHL arenas out there with one of the best public transport connections as well.
Okay buddy, pump the brakes the leaf's weren't even at full capacity this season for the first half tons of tickets available on the resale sites. and Scotiabank although great.... barley crests the the top ten in the league. I understand Toronto is the Centre of the universe to the people that live there, but have some humility the leaf's and certainly not raptors wouldn't sell out 25,000 nightly... Injecting an extra 6000 seats is significant at over 25% and ticket demand have softened league wide in all sports and not even the almighty leafs are immune to that.
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Last edited by Oilkountry; Mar 23, 2023 at 5:38 AM.
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  #7464  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 3:45 AM
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Sounds like Vancouver has the 5th best NHL attendance in the league surprisingly considering their poor record.
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  #7465  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Sounds like Vancouver has the 5th best NHL attendance in the league surprisingly considering their poor record.
6th by average, 10th by total attendance, 15th by percentage of capacity.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/friv/attendance.cgi
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  #7466  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 3:52 PM
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Which is odd given that my friends who attend or have season seats said that they cannot give tickets away.

Perhaps it is dropping prices such that those who cannot regularly go are now able to.
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  #7467  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
Which is odd given that my friends who attend or have season seats said that they cannot give tickets away.

Perhaps it is dropping prices such that those who cannot regularly go are now able to.
At least for Vancouver, it may be that a night out requires much more planning unless you live right on a SkyTrain line. Similar situation to Ottawa I guess.
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  #7468  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 4:53 PM
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At least for Vancouver, it may be that a night out requires much more planning unless you live right on a SkyTrain line. Similar situation to Ottawa I guess.
Similar situation to Ottawa?
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  #7469  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 5:15 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Similar situation to Ottawa?
Hard enough to get out to the arena at the last minute.
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  #7470  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 5:25 PM
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Hard enough to get out to the arena at the last minute.
Hard enough to get to the arena period.

I mean, is it even worth the effort???
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  #7471  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Similar situation to Ottawa?
So are suburban or downtown arenas the problem now?

Toronto's and Montreal's arenas aren't any different from Vancouver's in terms of location and accessibility.
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  #7472  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
So are suburban or downtown arenas the problem now?

Toronto's and Montreal's arenas aren't any different from Vancouver's in terms of location and accessibility.
That's my thought as well. The Big Three are in their own category with rapid transit and entertainment options nearby, along with Edmonton. Calgary's central surface parking lot location and 20 minute walk to the C-Train is somewhat in between our urban arenas and Kanata's non-man's land. Winnipeg doesn't have rapid transit, but it has the idealistic urban location.
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  #7473  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 7:40 PM
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That's my thought as well. The Big Three are in their own category with rapid transit and entertainment options nearby, along with Edmonton. Calgary's central surface parking lot location and 20 minute walk to the C-Train is somewhat in between our urban arenas and Kanata's non-man's land. Winnipeg doesn't have rapid transit, but it has the idealistic urban location.
If Ottawa's main arena was at Lansdowne Park it would be a somewhat similar situation to Calgary's.
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  #7474  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
If Ottawa's main arena was at Lansdowne Park it would be a somewhat similar situation to Calgary's.
The walk to the LRT is similar in Calgary as the walk to the subway in Toronto in my experience, even if the street does leave a lot to be desired.
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  #7475  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 7:57 PM
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The walk to the LRT is similar in Calgary as the walk to the subway in Toronto in my experience, even if the street does leave a lot to be desired.
Lansdowne has ample transit service, but it's on-street buses as opposed to anything "rapid".
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  #7476  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
6th by average, 10th by total attendance, 15th by percentage of capacity.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/friv/attendance.cgi
Arizona in the top flight !!
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  #7477  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
So are suburban or downtown arenas the problem now?

Toronto's and Montreal's arenas aren't any different from Vancouver's in terms of location and accessibility.

Both Toronto and Montreal benefit from commuter rail that takes them from the burbs directly to the core and their arenas. Vancouver only has one commuter rail line. This might be a big reason people find it tough to get to the games or a major inconvenience.
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  #7478  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Lansdowne has ample transit service, but it's on-street buses as opposed to anything "rapid".
Two bus lines is not ample service, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Both Toronto and Montreal benefit from commuter rail that takes them from the burbs directly to the core and their arenas. Vancouver only has one commuter rail line. This might be a big reason people find it tough to get to the games or a major inconvenience.
This is a fair point. GO is usually very busy on game days for Leafs, Jays, TFC, and to a lesser extent Raptors. It's actually impressive to see just how many Jays jerseys board at Oshawa Station for specific gamedays.
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  #7479  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 11:10 PM
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Two bus lines is not ample service, unfortunately.

.
Well they do run every couple of minutes and the Redblacks have a very efficient shuttle service.
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  #7480  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 11:37 PM
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It is not considered tough to get to games if Vancouver’s attendance is higher than most teams in the league.
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