Canadian Retail Thread - Page 37

Coldrsx · #**721** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 1:33 AM**

^i cant recall the numbers to be honest and i know chinook does very very well, but it aint WEM....simple as that.

Claeren · #**722** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^i cant recall the numbers to be honest and i know chinook does very very well, but it aint WEM....simple as that.

Simple as that? Chinook does just shy of $1000/sq-ft in sales and is growing year over year. You cannot simply wait for a lease to come to renewal to out-bid to get space (like at WEM) - you have to wait for it to be built.

It is far from 'simple'....

Unlike WEM, there are no entire wings in Chinook that are full of ghetto stores and 2nd and 3rd versions of the same store (that the retailor got as bonuses for signing long term leases).

Claeren.

SpongeG · #**723** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claeren

It could also be because they can get good space for little money compared to other premier shopping centre's like say, Chinook or Market - where the rents are likely double (or more) and the wait is 2-4 years (if at all).

Claeren.

some H&M stores are small

San Francisco has 3 - two of them are fairly small - and the smaller stores carry less of the lines - only the big one had the mens stuff - the other two were strictly for women - which itself is broken down into a few lines and they may carry say 3 of the 5 womens lines they have

where as the huge ones carry the full lines, womens, mens, childrens

SpongeG · #**724** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:21 AM**

have to point out WEM has the distinction of being the world's largest mall - its a great starting point for sureand it is recognized world wide among the shopping set

IntotheWest · #**725** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:23 AM**

Well, I'm not so sure about that...I agree that WEM is seeing several new retailers new to AB (and Canada), but Chinook also has Williams-Sonoma and Pottery Barn - don't think that's in Edm yet (and W-S isn't even in Van yet). Apple, Crate and Barrel, and rumoured Tiffany's are all wanting into Chinook.

From what I recall just a few years ago, there were quite a few garbage (i.e. low-end) stores in WEM...and with over 800 spots to pick from in there, there's bound to be a spot that these retailers can get into to capitalize on the AB market.

Chinook was second only to Yorkdale for revenue/sq-ft the last I saw...

IntotheWest · #**726** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

have to point out WEM has the distinction of being the world's largest mall - its a great starting point for sureand it is recognized world wide among the shopping set

Not any longer - it's been surpassed by several in China, and the Mall of the Emirates I believe is larger (incl it's indoor skiing)...

Still, I do like WEM, and unlike Chinook it is far more than just shopping...

SpongeG · #**727** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:28 AM**

oh yeah by no means is WEM a great mall with great stores - but there are people who plan trips purposefully to visit the mall - i know a few new immigrants who are dying to go see this "mall" in edmonton they have heard about

Coldrsx · #**728** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Well, I'm not so sure about that...I agree that WEM is seeing several new retailers new to AB (and Canada), but Chinook also has Williams-Sonoma and Pottery Barn - don't think that's in Edm yet (and W-S isn't even in Van yet). Apple, Crate and Barrel, and rumoured Tiffany's are all wanting into Chinook.

From what I recall just a few years ago, there were quite a few garbage (i.e. low-end) stores in WEM...and with over 800 spots to pick from in there, there's bound to be a spot that these retailers can get into to capitalize on the AB market.

Chinook was second only to Yorkdale for revenue/sq-ft the last I saw...

this isnt a pure $/sqft...WEM is a world onto itself and is a major force in attracting unique to canada/alberta names.

Plus15 · #**729** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:29 AM**

Chinook sales per square foot are definetely higher than WEM. They are third highest in the country, after Yorkdale and Eaton Centre in Toronto, at $805 per square foot. (Source...Calgary Herald). Market Mall is also way up there. This is not to say that WEM doesn't have higher TOTAL sales, I would almost guarantee that it does. But when you divide the number by the total leasable area, it can't touch Chinook's productivity.

I agree with you Claeren 100%...stores find it harder to enter Calgary because rents are much higher...and there is so little space. I also would guess that they want to make sure they have the RIGHT location. When entering Edmonton its a no-brainer, WEM is the best choice. But Calgary has no less than four shopping centres that are all contenders. Retailers can choose from Eaton Centre (high end) or Chinook (volume) or Market Mall (fashion)...retailers want to make sure they secure the right space.

Edmonton may be a more attractive entry point because of the lower rents. A 'quick'n cheap' entry point if you will, where the sales results at the end of the day will be about the same as Calgary. Edmonton has the clear advantage there.

Lets clarify that Edmonton is certainly not running away with a lead here, WEM may have attracted A&F, Hollister, and Lacoste first, but there are several prestige retailers that Calgary has attracted that Edmonton still has not. Williams-Sonoma, Pottery Barn, Bang & Olufsen, and opening in 2007, Sephora and Apple Store. H&M is opening here as well at Market Mall.

Chinook ain't WEM? We're all thankful for that.

Coldrsx · #**730** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:32 AM**

Chinook is a very good mall, no question, and i agree WEM can work around things to get people in quickly....but WEM is WEM...love it or hate it, it will continue to be picked many times over chinook for being simply, WEM.

IntotheWest · #**731** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:44 AM**

ColdRSX - I see your point, and I'd agree 10-20 years ago...and I agree that WEM is still a big tourist spot (largest in the province still?), but I believe as pointed out above - it's easier to get into than Chinook.

Plus15 - B&O is on Stephen Ave - not in a mall...besides, WEM also has a Bose store that Calgary doesn't have. As far as comparing Chinook with other retail space in the city - I think Market is still well behind Chinook, and there is no way EC is even close (I'd like to see numbers if you can find them).

It's no surprise that many are seemingly waiting for Chinook to expand - or possibly the new "lifestyle centre" at Deerfoot meadows. However, I think even that "Lifestyle Centre" from the latest I heard, will end up being nothing more than the like what's at South Edm Common.

Plus15 · #**732** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 2:59 AM**

Fair enough...WEM's status as major can't be disputed.

IntotheWest, some numbers for you. (Calgary Herald.)

Calgary Shopping Centres
(Monthly sales per square foot as of the end of July)

Chinook Centre: $805
Eaton Centre: $776
Market Mall: $712
Southcentre: $598
TD Square: $558
Sunridge Mall: $467*

*as of the end of June

Holt Renfrew is the only reason Eaton Centre is up there. I have heard ramblings of them wanting to expand to include another floor because sales are through the roof. As for Market Mall being that far behind Chinook, I think the gap is narrowing. Banana Republic, Benetton, Guess, and soon H&M, its getting there.

IntotheWest · #**733** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 3:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plus15

Fair enough...WEM's status as major can't be disputed.

IntotheWest, some numbers for you. (Calgary Herald.)

Calgary Shopping Centres
(Monthly sales per square foot as of the end of July)

Chinook Centre: $805
Eaton Centre: $776
Market Mall: $712
Southcentre: $598
TD Square: $558
Sunridge Mall: $467*

*as of the end of June

Holt Renfrew is the only reason Eaton Centre is up there. I have heard ramblings of them wanting to expand to include another floor because sales are through the roof. As for Market Mall being that far behind Chinook, I think the gap is narrowing. Banana Republic, Benetton, Guess, and soon H&M, its getting there.

Okay - I'm a little surprised...but yes, Holt would be doing the majority of business for EC, and has expanded it's boutique stores as well.

LordMandeep · #**734** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 3:26 AM**

I liked the Chinook Center while i was there.

I think Yorkdale mall has really gone from low scale to up scale really fast. I remember being such a crappy mall, now its alwaysssss busy. Every single day of the week, almost the whole day. Such easy access, subway from the City Center and two close by highways. A lot of the malls here in this area are going through major change.

Claeren · #**735** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 3:48 AM**

The Holt Renfrew at Eaton's Centre does insane sales. Thousands of dollars / sq-ft from what i hear... the biggest revenue generator in their chain i believe.

Claeren.

LordMandeep · #**736** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 3:52 AM**

I think there are 4 Holt Renfrews here.

2 are average to a little upscale and 2 are real upscale.

SpongeG · #**737** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 5:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

It's no surprise that many are seemingly waiting for Chinook to expand - or possibly the new "lifestyle centre" at Deerfoot meadows. However, I think even that "Lifestyle Centre" from the latest I heard, will end up being nothing more than the like what's at South Edm Common.

thats really all a "lifestyle" centre is really - its like an outdoor mall nothing much more

park royal has the first one apparently in Canada - its nothing too exciting otehr than you get to get rained on between shops

m0nkyman · #**738** Posted **Dec 5, 2006, 7:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plus15

Calgary Shopping Centres
(Monthly sales per square foot as of the end of July)

Chinook Centre: $805
Eaton Centre: $776
Market Mall: $712
Southcentre: $598
TD Square: $558
Sunridge Mall: $467*

*as of the end of June

I'm thinking those are yearly sales per square foot.... I can't see an average 2,000 square foot store pulling in 20 million $ a year anywhere.

Change it to yearly, and that same 2,000 sq/ft store is still grossing a hugely respectable 1.6million at 805$/sqft per year....

SpongeG · #**739** Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 5:10 AM**

Tiffany's corner of Vancouver
New shop creates critical mass of luxury brands downtown

Published: Tuesday, December 05, 2006

I'm off to breakfast at Tiffany's this morning.

No, not the one on New York's Fifth Avenue, made famous by the graceful figure of Audrey Hepburn in the film Breakfast at Tiffany's, but Vancouver's own!

Tiffany & Co. will throw open its elegant and expensive retail doors at the corner of Burrard and Alberni streets today.

When the Tiffany baby-blue hoarding walls are peeled back, the city will join the hallowed ranks of luxury retail cities such as New York, London, Paris, Hong Kong, San Francisco and Toronto.

Tiffany is at the new "axis" of luxury shopping downtown and will rub shoulders with fellow luxury brands, including Gucci, Hermes and Louis Vuitton.

All have taken root close to Robson, Vancouver's most fashionable street.

"We identified Vancouver many years ago as a place we wanted to be but we needed to get the right location and believe we have," said Andrea Hopson, vice-president, Tiffany & Co. Canada.

"This absolutely puts Vancouver into the top leagues of retail cities and we have already had a tremendous response from Vancouver and Western Canada to this new store," she said.

Actually, Tiffany will have two stores downtown.

It has long had a boutique with upmarket retailer Holt Renfrew, itself in the throes of a huge expansion in the Pacific Centre Mall.

"We have had a relationship for 13 years with Holt Renfrew and will continue having a boutique there," she said.

She did not reveal how much has been spent on the new store on Burrard but said it is a "substantial investment."

Sixth Line Solutions retail analyst David Gray said Vancouver now has a critical mass of luxury retailers and more names will likely follow.

"When you look at Canada, Vancouver is the natural place to expand to. It has the Olympics coming and the world is already here as far as the Pacific Gateway and Asia is concerned," he said.

The luxury retail market is changing and is not as exclusive as it once was, he said. It appeals to Asian and younger consumers who have cash and like the value of a brand name.

Tiffany will offer customers a full line of jewelry and other goods, packaged in the chain's hallmark baby-blue boxes with silky white ribbon.

The 4,700-square foot store will operate seven days a week with a staff of approximately 32.

The company was founded by Charles Lewis Tiffany and John B. Young in 1837 as Tiffany & Young.

It changed its name to Tiffany & Co. in 1853.

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/money/story.html?id=1e0a0a63-d512-403a-9213-0120eb405a6a

IntotheWest · #**740** Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 6:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

thats really all a "lifestyle" centre is really - its like an outdoor mall nothing much more

park royal has the first one apparently in Canada - its nothing too exciting otehr than you get to get rained on between shops

The initial plans were to be like a little "village" and more ped-centric. However, the last update I read, the developer feared they weren't get the cars close enough, so they've moved the parking to right at the storefronts.. The closest I've seen that fits that description is Edm's South Common - however, that's not a far departure from the strip malls surrounding big box stores anyway.

Yes...not too exciting for sure. And a disappointment if stores unique to Calgary open up there.