TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

It'll be quite sad if nothing gets done about 17 in UOV even with Yakabuski being the minister of transport.

[sonysnob]

Realistically, probably nothing will get done in the Upper Ottawa Valley over the next four years.

I'd expect that a contract will get called for construction to start in Spring 2020 to extend the 417 westerly from Scheel Drive in McNab to somewhere closer to Renfrew. I don't believe the previous government started any design work on that section of the 417, so even if design started in May of 2018, they'd probably need a year or so to finish that before they could actually get shovels in the ground. Perhaps the design phase would take longer if they still needed to acquire property.

To get through Renfrew, they need to twin the Bonnechere River Bridge, which is a pretty long bridge and would likely require specialty foundations engineering. Even if they started that following the election, they'd probably only be able to start actual construction in 2021, and that's assuming they'd be willing to run concurrent contracts on Highway 17. Which is something that previous governments of both stripes have not done along Highway 17 through the Ottawa Valley.

So assuming 3-4 years for construction, it'd be 2023-2025 before the highway is even twinned to Renfrew, let alone beyond.

[Dengler Avenue]

(1) What’s a concurrent contract? Does that mean multiple contracts simultaneously issued for different sections of Highway 17 in this context?
(2) I thought the outgoing liberal government started the design in August 2017. It was quite the news at that time.
https://www.insideottawavalley.com/news-...-highway-17-expansion-in-renfrew-county/

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

(1) What’s a concurrent contract? Does that mean multiple contracts simultaneously issued for different sections of Highway 17 in this context?
(2) I thought the outgoing liberal government started the design in August 2017. It was quite the news at that time.
https://www.insideottawavalley.com/news-...-highway-17-expansion-in-renfrew-county/

Yes, concurrent contracts mean more than one construction project ongoing at once. Highway 69 has been done with concurrent contracts, but so far Highway 17 through the Valley has not.

I wasn't aware that the previous government had started a detailed design project. So maybe that moves the timeline up by a year. That's still 2022-2024, just to get the highway through Renfrew though. And that's probably the best case scenario.

22km of highway is probably more than what would realistically be tendered in a single project. Generally the projects to twin Highway 69 have been tendered in chunks between 10-15km each, which would mean two contracts for Highway 17.

[sonysnob]

The Bonnechere River Valley through Renfew is a significant crossing. I think it even dwarfs the Mississippi River Bridge east of Arnprior. I took a couple of photos of this bridge a few years ago when I was out that way:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_17_images/17_structure_1937_east_Aug15_24x16.jpg


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_17_images/17_cl_1937-5_east_Aug15_24x16.jpg

[Dengler Avenue]

Was the twinning of Thunder Bay Expressway done using concurrent contracts then?
Ps: I can see why that bridge can be a headache for engineers.

Overall, this is the sad reality about twinning 11/17/69 (and 185 in Quebec):
When it's flat farmland, property acquisition jacks up the cost;
When it's Canadian Shield, blasting rocks increases the cost.

Lots of money will be outgoing, either way.

Also, if it's gonna 2 contracts, MTO might as well extend 417 all the way to Highway 653. I think that's 30 km.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Was the twinning of Thunder Bay Expressway done using concurrent contracts then?
Ps: I can see why that bridge can be a headache for engineers.

Overall, this is the sad reality about twinning 11/17/69 (and 185 in Quebec):
When it's flat farmland, property acquisition jacks up the cost;
When it's Canadian Shield, blasting rocks increases the cost.

Lots of money will be outgoing, either way.

Also, if it's gonna 2 contracts, MTO might as well extend 417 all the way to Highway 653. I think that's 30 km.

The Twinning northeast of Thunder Bay was done with multiple contracts ongoing at the same time. Though even in that case, just to get the 35km from Thunder Bay to just east of Pass Lake took 7 years of construction.

[Dengler Avenue]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=143615&page=197

Why did I not know about this when I pulled into the city at 8 pm on a Friday night... I’d have had something more decent than just bread and chocolate milk that I’d been munching on for my entire trip back in late April 2017...

[vid]

If you had pulled into the city at 8pm on a Friday night it wouldn't have mattered whether or not you knew about that because The Persian Man is only open until 6.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ox0PVX0mQ

Something for MTO to consider (especially if it’s to make winter tires and chains mandatory in the North)...?

[sonysnob]

What's the geographic area where Persian's are common?

The Robins Doughnuts in Atikokan always has Persian's for sale, but I don't remember seeing them at the Robins in Longlac.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ox0PVX0mQ

Something for MTO to consider (especially if it’s to make winter tires and chains mandatory in the North)...?

I've never seen anybody put chains on tires in Northern Ontario. I think it's done only in mountainous areas.

I do support Winter tires being mandatory in Northern Ontario for at least a few months.

[Dengler Avenue]

If people chain up their tires, though, they may even be able to pass through Montreal Harbour on snowy days.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ox0PVX0mQ

Something for MTO to consider (especially if it’s to make winter tires and chains mandatory in the North)...?

Chains are illegal in Ontario.
Studded tires are legal so long as the registered postal code has a P as the first letter in Ontario.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Chains are illegal in Ontario.
Studded tires are legal so long as the registered postal code has a P as the first letter in Ontario.

The first part makes no sense, other than the fact that broken chains can wreck havoc with snow-removal vehicles. Granted, it’s no small deal, but we need them chains so cars can travel along Lake Superior Mountains during winter months.

If the postal codes start with P, where are those (specific) places?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The first part makes no sense, other than the fact that broken chains can wreck havoc with snow-removal vehicles. Granted, it’s no small deal, but we need them chains so cars can travel along Lake Superior Mountains during winter months.

If the postal codes start with P, where are those (specific) places?

The chains are banned as they wreck havoc on the pavement.

As far as P, Basically anyone in Northern Ontario can. My next set will have studs as I live in Sudbury.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The first part makes no sense, other than the fact that broken chains can wreck havoc with snow-removal vehicles. Granted, it’s no small deal, but we need them chains so cars can travel along Lake Superior Mountains during winter months.

If the postal codes start with P, where are those (specific) places?

P Postal Code is for all of Northern Ontario as well as the Parry Sound and Muskoka Districts.

Proper Winter highway maintenance by companies under contract with the MTO should be priority. There will still be times when the OPP will have to close the highways such as freezing rain or snowsqualls.

The most dangerous situations I've faced in Northern Ontario are when the highway wasn't properly maintained (plowing, salting and sanding) and not the weather conditions alone.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

P Postal Code is for all of Northern Ontario as well as the Parry Sound and Muskoka Districts.

Proper Winter highway maintenance by companies under contract with the MTO should be priority. There will still be times when the OPP will have to close the highways such as freezing rain or snowsqualls.

The most dangerous situations I've faced in Northern Ontario are when the highway wasn't properly maintained (plowing, salting and sanding) and not the weather conditions alone.

I find that even a day after the snow/ice fall, the roads can still be crappy, regardless of who is in charge of the maintenance.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I find that even a day after the snow/ice fall, the roads can still be crappy, regardless of who is in charge of the maintenance.

They can be and sometimes for quite awhile when there's a cold snap after a big snowfall. I worked a job where I did a lot of highway driving up until a few years ago.

I find that the time of the year with the least amount of daylight is really bad. (November to mid February) And especially when it gets extremely cold. There isn't much sunlight and even when it's sunny the sun doesn't get up high enough in the sky to burn off the snow and ice on the road. The packed down snow often turns to ice with tires constantly going over it. Road salt doesn't work at all below -15C. The only choice is sand and a lot of it needs to be dropped. And even then it doesn't get evenly spread so you have to be very careful at highway speeds.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Loco101

They can be and sometimes for quite awhile when there's a cold snap after a big snowfall. I worked a job where I did a lot of highway driving up under a few years ago.

I find that the time of the year with the least amount of daylight is really bad. (November to mid February) And especially when it gets extremely cold. There isn't much sunlight and even when it's sunny the sun doesn't get up high enough in the sky to burn off the snow and ice on the road. The packed down snow often turns to ice with tires constantly going over it. Road salt doesn't work at all below -15C. The only choice is sand and a lot of it needs to be dropped. And even then it doesn't get evenly spread so you have to be very careful at highway speeds.

Pretty much this. Once that packed layer is on the highways, it effectively reflects all the sunlight instead of absorbing it, like black asphalt does. Then it becomes a waiting game for warmer weather.

People breeze along these hard packed stretches like it's asphalt though. That kind of freaks me out - that polished stuff has nowhere the traction of asphalt, even if you have studded tires. Sure, you can go fast, but turning or stopping isn't going to happen.

Don't miss commuting on the highways up there. Did it for a couple of years myself and living (a bit) further south has spoiled me with the conditions of the highways.