City of Hamilton General Discussion Thread

[mikevbar1]

Originally Posted by King&James

Interesting focus on Ancaster Village, I really don't see the type of infrastructure that would support that much intensification. I do think that there are simpler redevelopment sites across suburbia (Upper James and Mohawk (actually almost all of Upper James), Mohawk and Upper Sherman, Centennial Parkway).

Well I think old Ancaster has the appeal/demand to build out rather quickly if it chose to. The rest of the city? Less so, even if it is more well suited to serious intensification. Old Ancaster could also be walkable right off the bat, whereas a lot of the mountain needs serious work in that regard. I have faith too that the T line will eventually extend into old Ancaster, but that might be a tough sell.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Pulkvedis Pods

Americans don't have that machine that goes "ping".

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The full sketch:
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[Beedok]

Originally Posted by atnor

Canadians aren’t as fat as Americans.

Obesity stats are based on BMI standards that aren’t actually indicative of anything useful. BMI is simple weight:height. Many highly athletic folks get counted as obese. Like, a body builder with a low body fat percentage can end up counted as ‘obese’ if they get enough muscle.

So, whether Canadians really have significantly better physical fitness is pretty hard to judge.

Also, though, I like not having to worry nearly as much about being saddled with absurd debt from needing medical treatment like they have in the US. Or all the inefficiencies that having a for profit corporate bureaucracy brings to healthcare.

[King&James]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

Well I think old Ancaster has the appeal/demand to build out rather quickly if it chose to. The rest of the city? Less so, even if it is more well suited to serious intensification. Old Ancaster could also be walkable right off the bat, whereas a lot of the mountain needs serious work in that regard. I have faith too that the T line will eventually extend into old Ancaster, but that might be a tough sell.

Fully agree Ancaster Village should attract developers that are ready to go, would love to see some high quality initiatives (eg 101 Locke). Far too long vacant /under-developed land in the Village. Happy to see 4/5 storey stepped along Wilson to still maintain the character. With just a single lane each way on Wilson, going to get tight if going too dense.

And I would be thrilled to see the Food Basics plaza redeveloped with retail along the street front and multi- level residential in behind.

[Pulkvedis Pods]

I would love to see grand improvements on the 3 corners of Wilson and Fiddler's Green that aren't St. Ann's Parish. Take away the Petro Canada (something is happening there right now. The pumps are fenced in and the place has been closed for a couple of weeks.
Maybe now that there is a new city council, the whole transit thing could be revisited, so that people close to Wilson could foreseeably have public transit as a viable alternative?

[mikevbar1]

Originally Posted by King&James

Fully agree Ancaster Village should attract developers that are ready to go, would love to see some high quality initiatives (eg 101 Locke). Far too long vacant /under-developed land in the Village. Happy to see 4/5 storey stepped along Wilson to still maintain the character. With just a single lane each way on Wilson, going to get tight if going too dense.

And I would be thrilled to see the Food Basics plaza redeveloped with retail along the street front and multi-level residential in behind.

I will reiterate something I say all the time, which is that this is not an unfamiliar situation on a regional level. I know it's not in our blood, but planners and the city should really try and show how this kind of thing has turned out in other, similar places like Port Credit, Thornhill, etc. The redevelopment of plazas needs to be seen as welcome, beneficial, logical, and ultimately inevitable.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

I will reiterate something I say all the time, which is that this is not an unfamiliar situation on a regional level. I know it's not in our blood, but planners and the city should really try and show how this kind of thing has turned out in other, similar places like Port Credit, Thornhill, etc. The redevelopment of plazas needs to be seen as welcome, beneficial, logical, and ultimately inevitable.

You make an excellent point. Rather than pitching the vague idea of improving the village atmosphere, giving the visualization of the quaint Port Credit or Oakville town centres will get more people on board. Imagine Ancaster actually having the small-town atmosphere that's talked about so often

[Chronamut]

Sigh I really wish we still had a traditional styled opera house in hamilton.. (theatre aquarius just doesn't feel the same..) I feel we need a building that has just sheer scale and opulence and awe, to make people remember the heyday of what hamilton used to look and feel like, and its wealth, both visually and financially. What I really feel this city needs is to restore its sense of prestige - toronto has that feeling - where people go because it feels like new york - where you can go and make something of yourself - we have great bones for that - we just need to develop it.

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[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Sigh I really wish we still had a traditional styled opera house in hamilton.. (theatre aquarius just doesn't feel the same..) I feel we need a building that has just sheer scale and opulence and awe, to make people remember the heyday of what hamilton used to look and feel like, and its wealth, both visually and financially. What I really feel this city needs is to restore its sense of prestige - toronto has that feeling - where people go because it feels like new york - where you can go and make something of yourself - we have great bones for that - we just need to develop it.

I appreciate your sentiment. The Tivoli is probably the only opportunity at this point (if the theatre that's been sitting for too long hasn't rotted away by now).

I just don't think there's a market for it. Yeah Toronto has a few of the "traditional" ones (like the Royal Alex, whatever the Pantages is called now) and the Mirvish empire has that market well covered and it serves a huge region not just the city itself.

Entertainment today isn't what it was when all those local venues were around. Back then people had few options, but today there are SO many. So I just don't think there's a market for a lot more of it, especially in Hamilton -- the area is becoming well served, with facilities of a variety of sizes (downtown, in Burlington, now Ancaster) that may not be "classics" but they offer everything current theater-goers need, and maybe offer some flexibility that the old opera houses did not. Dofasco Centre is ageing but I've seen a few plays there in the last couple of years and it seemed in good shape... perhaps it will get a renewal at some point, like whatever is planned for First Ontario Concert Hall. I do want to see Tivoli revived, but I doubt it will be fronted by an ornate building of the old style, even if it's just a podium for a condo like what was proposed (which was anything but traditional in those "plans"...)

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I appreciate your sentiment. The Tivoli is probably the only opportunity at this point (if the theatre that's been sitting for too long hasn't rotted away by now).

I just don't think there's a market for it. Yeah Toronto has a few of the "traditional" ones (like the Royal Alex, whatever the Pantages is called now) and the Mirvish empire has that market well covered and it serves a huge region not just the city itself.

Entertainment today isn't what it was when all those local venues were around. Back then people had few options, but today there are SO many. So I just don't think there's a market for a lot more of it, especially in Hamilton -- the area is becoming well served, with facilities of a variety of sizes (downtown, in Burlington, now Ancaster) that may not be "classics" but they offer everything current theater-goers need, and maybe offer some flexibility that the old opera houses did not. Dofasco Centre is ageing but I've seen a few plays there in the last couple of years and it seemed in good shape... perhaps it will get a renewal at some point, like whatever is planned for First Ontario Concert Hall. I do want to see Tivoli revived, but I doubt it will be fronted by an ornate building of the old style, even if it's just a podium for a condo like what was proposed (which was anything but traditional in those "plans"...)

Interestingly enough the original front building for the tivoli was part of what seemed like a "traditional" frontage for theatres at that time - a lot of them had that similar "look" - I think if you had the right person come along with a desire for heritage they might be able to do something justice there - but yeah times have changed - I am not sure what we could have that would be a modern equivalent and still give that feeling of scale and city pride to others coming in. I mean noone comes to hamilton to film for the modern stuff - people only value hamilton for its old heritage stuff so we really need to capitulate on that.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Sigh I really wish we still had a traditional styled opera house in hamilton.. (theatre aquarius just doesn't feel the same..) I feel we need a building that has just sheer scale and opulence and awe, to make people remember the heyday of what hamilton used to look and feel like, and its wealth, both visually and financially. What I really feel this city needs is to restore its sense of prestige - toronto has that feeling - where people go because it feels like new york - where you can go and make something of yourself - we have great bones for that - we just need to develop it.

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I guess you forgot about the First Ontario Concert hall. It has some of the best acoustics of any concert hall in the world.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

I guess you forgot about the First Ontario Concert hall. It has some of the best acoustics of any concert hall in the world.

Bah I remember it - but when I mean traditional opera house I mean like TRADITIONAL - with marble pillars gold red velvet immaculate lighted detailed ceilings and all the trimmings to give that upscale feel - the first ontario concert hall is very "modern" looking and I frankly just don't like its design aesthetic.

When you think of the more traditional ones its more something you dress up to go to. Mind you the scale is there, but like theatre aquarius it just doesn't give the same "feel" of majesty that a traditional opera house did. The feeling like "you can't afford to even step foot in this place let alone see something performed here" feel.

King william st is starting to get that feel - the "man this is pricy but its downtown so that's ok" feel. I want that visually lavish feel to our core again.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Bah I remember it - but when I mean traditional opera house I mean like TRADITIONAL - with marble pillars gold red velvet immaculate lighted detailed ceilings and all the trimmings to give that upscale feel - the first ontario concert hall is very "modern" looking and I frankly just don't like its design aesthetic.

When you think of the more traditional ones its more something you dress up to go to. Mind you the scale is there, but like theatre aquarius it just doesn't give the same "feel" of majesty that a traditional opera house did. The feeling like "you can't afford to even step foot in this place let alone see something performed here" feel.

King william st is starting to get that feel - the "man this is pricy but its downtown so that's ok" feel. I want that visually lavish feel to our core again.

Why would you want that?

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Why would you want that?

Because there is a special feeling when you have to save up, and dress up to go somewhere special - makes it feel fancy.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Because there is a special feeling when you look down on all the peasants that could never afford to experience such useless fanciness and vanity.

Fixed it for you

I hope something like this never gets built here, and I highly doubt it ever will.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Because there is a special feeling when you have to save up, and dress up to go somewhere special - makes it feel fancy.

Few seem to dress up for anything these days.

One can be nostalgic, but casual has been "in" for a while and we now have pandemic chique... e.g., pyjama bottoms and a tee shirt are quite common outside the home.

[Crapht]

I’d suggest just going to a random show at “Hamilton Place” regardless. I’ve always thought it was a good looking building but it’s a concert hall so I want it to sound hood and it sounds beautiful. We are lucky to have it.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Crapht

I’d suggest just going to a random show at “Hamilton Place” regardless. I’ve always thought it was a good looking building but it’s a concert hall so I want it to sound hood and it sounds beautiful. We are lucky to have it.

We are lucky. Today, would city council ever get to approving construction of something like that?

It needs some love though, so hopefully HUPEG turns its attention to the concert hall soon after the arena is complete. The building literally has plants growing out of seams between the stained concrete and metal panelling, and weeds among the pavers on the walkways.

[atnor]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Few seem to dress up for anything these days.

One can be nostalgic, but casual has been "in" for a while and we now have pandemic chique... e.g., pyjama bottoms and a tee shirt are quite common outside the home.

I beg to differ. The bummy chique has been a Hamilton staple for decades now, is it too much for people to show some self respect and make an attempt to be presentable in public?

[mikevbar1]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

When you think of the more traditional ones its more something you dress up to go to. Mind you the scale is there, but like theatre aquarius it just doesn't give the same "feel" of majesty that a traditional opera house did. The feeling like "you can't afford to even step foot in this place let alone see something performed here" feel.

King william st is starting to get that feel - the "man this is pricy but its downtown so that's ok" feel. I want that visually lavish feel to our core again.

I think what your is trying to say, and is being missed, is the need for a) upscale establishments, and more importantly b) places and buildings that feel upscale and grand. Part of a “downtown feel” is there being some places that have a sense of scale, grandeur, and yes, money. A lot of that is superficial; good architecture, good interior design, urban design, etc. While that is usually taken for granted in big cities, it is something that a rejuvenating city might need to consider in crafting its image, especially when our public image is subpar. That’s not to say everything needs to be glitzy and expensive, rather that the place your in conveys it’s own importance.

This doesn’t have to be at the expense of the majority of the city and our demographics; there’s lots of room to build a conscious, grand core that conveys importance and grandeur while balancing it with the realities of the typical Hamiltonian and what their needs/preferences are. There’s gotta be standouts downtown that capitalize on the imagery of being there, and that’s what I got out of Chromonauts comment.