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  #721  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2017, 1:59 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Boring stations?

Good. That means the designers got it right, and, more importantly, the planners and financers got their priorities right.
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  #722  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2017, 4:30 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Boring stations?

Good. That means the designers got it right, and, more importantly, the planners and financers got their priorities right.
Maybe your priorities, right? I find art and design to be incredibly important in an urban environment. If the station is boring than no, the project is not a success. Art makes people proud of their cities, and that has a cost (less graffiti etc.).
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  #723  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2017, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by d_jeffrey View Post
Maybe your priorities, right? I find art and design to be incredibly important in an urban environment. If the station is boring than no, the project is not a success. Art makes people proud of their cities, and that has a cost (less graffiti etc.).
I don't disagree with you. I do question what a reasonable cost for this art is though. $434,000 per station for suburban and rural stations seems a bit excessive to me. If they were flagship stations, I could see spending that much though, but it should be designed into the architecture, not added as an afterthought.
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  #724  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 1:10 AM
Admiral Nelson Admiral Nelson is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Boring stations?

Good. That means the designers got it right, and, more importantly, the planners and financers got their priorities right.
Does it really? Your position seems to be a recipe for a dismal society governed, in Oscar Wilde's words, by people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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  #725  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 2:38 AM
Buggys Buggys is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Boring stations?

Good. That means the designers got it right, and, more importantly, the planners and financers got their priorities right.
I'm with you on this one. It's valuable if it's visually boring architecturally -- as long as the structure is made thoughtfully & well (actual roofs, good connectivity & proximity to other features, etc). Installed art that comes at a monetary price is no more valuable than well designed elegant graffiti.
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  #726  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 5:57 AM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Good Day....
so is this what you want as the optimal, classy, efficient station ?
https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/...p.1086x729.jpg
Toronto Star, Monday, March 06, 2017 photo of a T.O. station.
I for one hate it. HATE it. It is exactly what I am afraid of for our stations, and pray we do not see. But yet I fear, because of people shortsighted enough to put up with only just enough at cheep cheap cheep, when we should go for spacious, and at least somewhat classy - not cold, utilitarian, cramped, crowded, dangerous. (Yes, really - look at the width of that platform - sorry, but that is -disgusting-.)
>:-(
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  #727  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 3:18 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Ottawa is a G7 capital city. It is time to start acting like one. And that means that rapid transit stations should have style. We don't want some commie block grey miserable concrete utilitarian design. I have seen that drabness in other cities. It looks bad and it ages even worse.

There needs to be a 'wow' factor at key stations and every station should be attractive featuring art work that supports the local art community. A great city supports a bohemian lifestyle and you cannot have that without supporting artists and the like.
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  #728  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Ottawa is a G7 capital city. It is time to start acting like one. And that means that rapid transit stations should have style. We don't want some commie block grey miserable concrete utilitarian design. I have seen that drabness in other cities. It looks bad and it ages even worse.

There needs to be a 'wow' factor at key stations and every station should be attractive featuring art work that supports the local art community. A great city supports a bohemian lifestyle and you cannot have that without supporting artists and the like.
Washington, London, Paris, Berlin and Rome also have commie block grey miserable concrete utilitarian design subways, so Ottawa will fit right in (never been to Tokyo, maybe it is that way too).
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  #729  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 3:32 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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Ironically, commie block countries never cheaped out on their subway stations.
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  #730  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day....
so is this what you want as the optimal, classy, efficient station ?
https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/...p.1086x729.jpg
Toronto Star, Monday, March 06, 2017 photo of a T.O. station.
I for one hate it. HATE it. It is exactly what I am afraid of for our stations, and pray we do not see. But yet I fear, because of people shortsighted enough to put up with only just enough at cheep cheap cheep, when we should go for spacious, and at least somewhat classy - not cold, utilitarian, cramped, crowded, dangerous. (Yes, really - look at the width of that platform - sorry, but that is -disgusting-.)
>:-(
I agree I don't want anything like that, but would putting a beautiful statue in the middle of that platform make things any better? To me, I would call that station barely functional. Yes people can get on and off the train, but the congestion on the platform will slow things down.

I want the stations in Ottawa to be fully functional first and foremost, with plenty of room to get around without feeling claustrophobic or unsafe. For me art is the icing on the cake and the best art for a station is that which is designed into the station architecture.
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  #731  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 3:41 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Wroclaw, Poland Central Station. Even pictures do not do it justice. Remarkable building.



http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/30743ad3e6...ion-ctn90h.jpg
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  #732  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 4:46 PM
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Just a reminder of what we're getting.

Rideau platform level;


http://www.ibigroup.com/projects/ott...ederation-line

Parliament concourse;


http://www.ibigroup.com/projects/ott...ederation-line

Lyon concourse;


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...03028&page=205

Pretty damn decent for a modest city of a million. Way better than the tiny, utilitarian Toronto subways of the 50s, but not as jaw droppingly amazing as 60s Montreal. We're sitting right in between.
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  #733  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 5:41 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by d_jeffrey View Post
Maybe your priorities, right? I find art and design to be incredibly important in an urban environment.
Me, too.

But it does not necesarily follow that an arbitrary percentage of a major capital works project should be spent on public art, nor that art in public places should be paid for entirely by the public purse.

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If the station is boring than no, the project is not a success.
I measure the success of a transit project by its ability to move people around in an economically-efficient manner, myself.

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Art makes people proud of their cities,
I suppose. I find most public art in Ottawa to be embarrasingly bad, but de gustibus non est disputandum.

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and that has a cost (less graffiti etc.).
Is this quantified? (Or even quantifiable?)
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  #734  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 5:44 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Buggys View Post
I'm with you on this one. It's valuable if it's visually boring architecturally -- as long as the structure is made thoughtfully & well (actual roofs, good connectivity & proximity to other features, etc). Installed art that comes at a monetary price is no more valuable than well designed elegant graffiti.
And worse, if the arbitary N% of capital works being spent on public art means that cash isn't available for something that would enhance the primary purpose of that capital work, then it's a bad funding decision.

Same thing with having LRT stations that are "architectural statements" with soaring rooves and other nonsense. Spare me the roof; save the steel to build more or better shelter capacity at another point in the line.

What is the cost of the deferred eastern LRT station at Jasmine, for example, compared to the cost of "public art" on the current and future LRT system? If it's a decision between art and that station (and no, it's not that binary, but humour me), then I pick an additional station, every single time.
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  #735  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 5:48 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Ottawa is a G7 capital city. It is time to start acting like one. And that means that rapid transit stations should have style.
Agreed, 100%. That doesn't mean, however, that an arbitary N% of the capital budget should be devoted to art.

Quote:
We don't want some commie block grey miserable concrete utilitarian design. I have seen that drabness in other cities. It looks bad and it ages even worse.
Yip. So make sure your design - both functional and esthetic - is top-notch while at the same time representing the best bang for the buck.

Quote:
There needs to be a 'wow' factor at key stations and every station should be attractive featuring art work that supports the local art community.
I don't take those things as self-evident.

Quote:
A great city supports a bohemian lifestyle and you cannot have that without supporting artists and the like.
Still does not follow that an arbitrary percentage of the largest capital works project in the city's history should be devoted to public art.
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  #736  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 5:49 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Just a reminder of what we're getting.
Pretty damn decent for a modest city of a million. Way better than the tiny, utilitarian Toronto subways of the 50s, but not as jaw droppingly amazing as 60s Montreal. We're sitting right in between.
Actually, I think our LRT stations will be much more pleasant places to be in, functionally and esthetically, than most of Montreal's metro stations, many of which started 1960s-drab and have stayed that way.
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  #737  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 6:23 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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I remember going to CTC (then Corel Centre) for the first time expecting to be awed. What I saw was a lot of exposed concrete. I was underwhelmed and disappointed.
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  #738  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 6:37 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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I wonder how often the escalators will be broken.

Will they accommodate the masses travelling with luggage from the airport? Haha!
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  #739  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2017, 6:50 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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I remember going to CTC (then Corel Centre) for the first time expecting to be awed. What I saw was a lot of exposed concrete. I was underwhelmed and disappointed.
Hockey arenas are noted for the artistic clientele they attract.
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  #740  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2017, 1:29 AM
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Ottawa LRT plans: Stage 2 plan wins council's approval

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 8, 2017 | Last Updated: March 8, 2017 5:11 PM EST


Ottawa city council voted Wednesday to approve the ambitious $3.6-billion Stage 2 rail and road blueprint for expanding the city’s LRT network to the east, west and south, but not before also looking north.

Council asked Mayor Jim Watson to formalize talks with Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin aimed at improving the rapid transit connections between the two cities with a special focus on the potential future use of the Prince of Wales bridge, which the City of Ottawa owns.

Approximately 60,000 people travel between Ottawa and Gatineau on a typical weekday, but Watson says a day doesn’t go by that he isn’t asked about improving connections between the two cities.

One possibility that’s been bandied about for decades would see the O-Train’s Trillium line extend north across the Ottawa River and connect to the Taché-UQO Rapibus station in Gatineau.

“We need to make sure Gatineau is onside,” Watson said, adding it’s an idea Liberal MPs on both sides of the river support.

That’s key because the city will need federal funding — in the range of tens of millions of dollars, based on preliminary estimates — to upgrade the bridge for rail.

Watson said Pedneaud-Jobin “is interested in looking at that as another transportation link between the two provinces.”

“We want to find a better way to get people out of their cars and into transit,” he said.

The Stage 2 LRT plan would extend the Trillium Line south to Bowesville Road in Riverside South and include a four-kilometre spur to the Ottawa International Airport by 2021.

An eastern arm to Trim Road would be completed by 2022, followed by western links to Algonquin College and Moodie Drive by 2023.

The package includes building 23 new stations, buying new buses and trains, and widening the city-owned Highway 174.

“This is obviously a very historic and exciting day for the city and its future,” Watson said.

It’s a far stretch from six years ago, when the city had no realistic plans and no financial backing from other levels of government. “When we had discussions with the federal and provincial governments, quite frankly they didn’t take us all that seriously because we did not have our act together,” Watson said.

Now, Ottawa is building LRT farther and faster than anyone believed was possible, he said.

Several councillors continued to question the need for widening the 174 at a time when LRT is being extended to Orléans. The city has an analysis, not included in any public report, that says widening the highway will take 10 per cent of the anticipated riders from the rail line and still leave the 174 overcrowded.

But Cumberland Coun. Stephen Blais, who chairs the transit commission, defended the move as a modest, cost-effective expansion of the 174 to add a carpool lane.

“We need a multi-modal transportation system that provides options for everyone,” he said. “Not everyone can walk to work, not everyone can bike to work, not everyone can take transit to work. We need a complete system for all residents of Ottawa and I’m very proud the Stage 2 plan does that.”

Meanwhile, extending the western terminus to Moodie Drive, instead of Bayshore Shopping Centre, will mean residents from Kanata and Stittsville will be able to take a local bus to Moodie station in 2023 and hop on the train, Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley said.

“That is a huge move forward from the original date of 2031 just to start the planning process,” he said.

Council approved several minor tweaks to the plan.

Barrhaven Coun. Jan Harder wants the city to study the feasibility and priority of converting the southwest Transitway to rail between Algonquin College and Barrhaven, which she notes is the fastest growing area of Ottawa. A rail conversion there isn’t part of the current plan until after 2031.

Stittsville Coun. Shad Qadri asked staff to explore the possibility of building a new park-and-ride lot at Moodie station.

And Blais requested public washrooms for Place d’Orléans station, which is projected to have more higher transfer volumes than other stations with washrooms. Because installing washrooms at Place d’Orléans station was part of the initial plan, before the extension to Trim Road became a reality, staff say it won’t add to the capital budget.

Although Wednesday’s approval brings the city another step closer to putting the Stage 2 project up for tender, the city still needs to secure federal funding, which Watson said he hopes will happen before the end of May.

“I have every indication we will be hearing positive news,” he said.

The Liberals committed to $1 billion to the project during the 2015 election, but the city is also hoping to get an additional $150 million for the extensions to Trim Road and the airport.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ncils-approval
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