Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I hate to think what he would have done to Weber (WEE-burr), Wiebe (WEE-bee), or Breithaupt (BRIGHT-up). The list is long.

In Manitoba, Wiebe is a common Mennonite surname, but it's always pronounced weeb in my experience. I know a couple of Mennos who are grateful for Jonathan Toews' ascent to stardom in the NHL since everyone knows how to pronounce their name now (taves).

As for Weber, one of my U of A profs humorously decried the fact that people in Edmonton called the local Mercedes dealership "web burr" instead of the proper "vay burr".

[Docere]

What impact has German had on speech patterns in Waterloo and Perth counties? Obviously the Amish and Old Order Mennonites in some rural townships are still speaking German today (or at least dialects), but what about non-Amish/Old Order Mennonite English-speaking Canadians descended from German immigrants 150-200 years ago (either directly from Germany or from Pennsylvania)?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Common family names in Kitchener can confound outsiders. Last night the National did a good report on drone aircraft but the reporter pronounced the name of a Waterloo company's president, Kroetsch, as though it rhymed with something between "coach" and "crotch". In fact, it rhymes with "wretch". I hate to think what he would have done to Weber (WEE-burr), Wiebe (WEE-bee), or Breithaupt (BRIGHT-up). The list is long.

Yeah, but these pronunciations are for the most part local concoctions and aren't necessarily the actual German ones.

If I were a newsreader, I would pronounce these:

Vebb-er

Veeb-uh

Bright-howpt (like in Hauptbanhof)

You can't really fault someone on a national newscast for not pronouncing a name in a regional, obscure (sorry) fashion that isn't even the way it is said in the language of origin.

[wg_flamip]

If you want to hear a name get really butchered, wait until there's breaking news about someone with a Tamil name. I recall an accident in Scarborough a few months (maybe a year) ago where an elderly Tamil woman got struck by a car. The newscaster on Radio One gave the name a few tries before finally giving up with an apologetic sigh.

[Xelebes]

A similar oddity is the name Krokers in central-east Alberta. Pronounced Cray-ker.

Of course, my last name is an oddity. From the same region of the aforementioned shift, it uses an eye instead of a quite apparent ee.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The term "youse" in place of "you" in the plural is very common around here (and is a huge pet peeve of one of my colleagues, from Peterborough), and I even heard "y'all" from a barber yesterday. You only have to go as far as On Larocks Bar on Concession Street to hear the typical Kingston area accent. Around here there's no shortage of waitresses who say "dear" or "sweetie".

That's kind of a north of Princess thing... you hear it in the west end sometimes, but generally that kind of thing flags somebody as living north of York/Ordnance.

The Beer Store up Bagot is another place where you can hear Kingston speech at its most distinctive. Somebody I'll do an audio recording up there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Kingston is also the first city in Canada where I've ever heard someone say "tortillas" pronouncing the double-L in the English sense, and the first place anywhere I've heard "Illinois" with the S pronounced.

Many French Canadians will say Illinois as "illi-noice" when speaking in English. That's because in French it's "ill-EE-nwah", and there is no intuitive way that springs to mind when you're thinking of saying it English. Especially if you've never heard anyone say it in English the correct way: illi-NOY.

Francophones also have trouble with Arkansas, Utah, Kansas and Ohio.

And also Saint Louis. Many say "saint lou-ee" in English. Honest mistake of course.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And also Saint Louis. Many say "saint lou-ee" in English. Honest mistake of course.

Isn't that an occasional way locals say the name of the city? One of the last relics of paw-paw.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, but these pronunciations are for the most part local concoctions and aren't necessarily the actual German ones.

If I were a newsreader, I would pronounce these:

Vebb-er

Veeb-uh

Bright-howpt (like in Hauptbanhof)

You can't really fault someone on a national newscast for not pronouncing a name in a regional, obscure (sorry) fashion that isn't even the way it is said in the language of origin.

I guess I was struck by the "Kroetsch" example because they actually had him on the segment and still got his name wrong (plus he's my cousin)

In most cases, the pronunciation of local German names has drifted from their German roots. Same in K-W with French names like Lavigne (Lah-VING) and Mombourquette (MUM-burr-ket).

You'd be amused to know that when I first moved to Ottawa, I thought the "Loeb" supermarket was "Leebs". Turns out an old friend of mine from school days moved to Ottawa and did the very same thing! We both had a friend by the name of Boehm (Beem), which would be where we got it. Interestingly, he also moved to Ottawa.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Docere

What impact has German had on speech patterns in Waterloo and Perth counties? Obviously the Amish and Old Order Mennonites in some rural townships are still speaking German today (or at least dialects), but what about non-Amish/Old Order Mennonite English-speaking Canadians descended from German immigrants 150-200 years ago (either directly from Germany or from Pennsylvania)?

I have no German, but some people say that there's a German influence in the odd word orders that you hear down here upon occasion (the "throw me down the stairs the book" stuff), but I'd say it's very limited. The local Old Order do have a distinctive "accent", but it's more rural than German, I'd say.

I don't actually know what percentage of the local population still speaks German. I'd guess it is well under ten percent, although the percentage of people with German heritage might be twenty-five or thirty percent.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I have no German, but some people say that there's a German influence in the odd word orders that you hear down here upon occasion (the "throw me down the stairs the book" stuff), but I'd say it's very limited. The local Old Order do have a distinctive "accent", but it's more rural than German, I'd say.

I don't actually know what percentage of the local population still speaks German. I'd guess it is well under ten percent, although the percentage of people with German heritage might be twenty-five or thirty percent.

At home? At all? Outside of the rural Amish/Mennonite enclaves it is not the language of daily speech. English quickly became the main language of Berlin/Kitchener during WWI.

According to the 2011 NHS:

In Waterloo Region, there were 114,550 (23%) of German origin, plus another 8,810 (1.8%) of Swiss origin - many of the Pennsylvania Germans are of Swiss origin. 16,515 had a German mother tongue (3.3% of the population).

However, in Wellesley Township, 4,880 (45.5%) are of German and 1,465 (13.7%) are of Swiss origin (there is probably a good amount of overlap between them). 3,445 (32.2%) are of German mother tongue.

Significant numbers of German speakers in Woolwich and Perth East as well.

[Boris2k7]

Only German name in Alberta that I can think of that has the different local pronunciation than in the original language is Gleichen (glee-shen).

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Kingston is also the first city in Canada where I've ever heard someone say "tortillas" pronouncing the double-L in the English sense

Is this how they pronounce Jalapeno too?


• Video Link

[middeljohn]

In Alberta after you order fast food they ask "to stay or to go". In Ontario they ask "for here or to go".

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

In Alberta after you order fast food they ask "to stay or to go". In Ontario they ask "for here or to go".

In Vancouver it's for here or to go as well.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

In Vancouver it's for here or to go as well.

I've heard both of those plus "eat in or take out" all used in Saskatchewan.

[SignalHillHiker]

Here it's most commonly a longer phrase. "Now you eating in, my love, or taking it home?" Etc.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Docere

At home? At all? Outside of the rural Amish/Mennonite enclaves it is not the language of daily speech. English quickly became the main language of Berlin/Kitchener during WWI.

According to the 2011 NHS:

In Waterloo Region, there were 114,550 (23%) of German origin, plus another 8,810 (1.8%) of Swiss origin - many of the Pennsylvania Germans are of Swiss origin. 16,515 had a German mother tongue (3.3% of the population).

However, in Wellesley Township, 4,880 (45.5%) are of German and 1,465 (13.7%) are of Swiss origin (there is probably a good amount of overlap between them). 3,445 (32.2%) are of German mother tongue.

Significant numbers of German speakers in Woolwich and Perth East as well.

I went to see a friend's new condo in Waterloo this evening and rode up in the elevator with four people speaking German (a young couple and the parents of one of them, I assume). It is certainly not unusual to hear people speaking German in K-W, as there was significant immigration from Germany and points east for years after WWII.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

In Alberta after you order fast food they ask "to stay or to go". In Ontario they ask "for here or to go".

My usual response to that is "to take away, please".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Here it's most commonly a longer phrase. "Now you eating in, my love, or taking it home?" Etc.

I've noticed that in some of the diners here, the waitresses are calling everybody "dear" or "hon". I assume it's just for the diner atmosphere, but hearing "hon" all the time makes me feel like I'm in Baltimore!