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  #721  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
Went to the Chinatown festival and I haven't felt this disenchantment with its future since I moved into the area over a decade ago. The booths occupied just one side of the street on only a single block on Keefer between Columbia and Carrall. Even arguable if you could call that Chinatown but let's let that pass. There was no booth that actually related to Chinatown, had a bunch of municipal parties, BC hydro, td bank, genesis security *sigh*. Even the Chinese cultural centre couldnt bother to open their doors. The Sun-Yat Sen park has its gates closed on both Columbia and Pender, you need to sneak in via a small mandoor along Carrall. Wish the festival would've brought in Chinatown merchants and been held within its current footprint to have broightnmore traffic to them.
It would be a money loser for any small businesses with low foot traffic, plus your merchandise on display could be at risk in that neighbourhood.
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  #722  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 4:18 AM
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I went to the Festival as well, and took a walk around the Hood, very little recovery, looks like a loosing battle ... all the best.
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  #723  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 6:28 AM
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I went to the Festival as well, and took a walk around the Hood, very little recovery, looks like a loosing battle ... all the best.
the neighbourhoods around the DTES don't stand a chance if the DTES isn't fixed. with that tent city now on hastings, it wont happen; good luck. it will just keep spilling over to the surrounding places. its even spilling to other areas of downtown such as the west end, denman, davie, robson. these streets are not like they used to be.

add in the fact CoV is forcing businesses to remove window protection because they violate character, that just adds insult to injury. as a business, how do you even begin to handle this? you cant afford new glass every few days, and you cant even protect your windows because the government bans it. the same government who wont stop the criminals. i can see why businesses are just leaving... not to mention now people dont want to go there since its unsafe for the average person. you can argue all you want if it is safe or not, the perception is it is not safe. the city as a whole is now seen as unsafe in general.

more than 5yrs ago i did work by myself along hastings right from the west, to east through the DTES including in the back lanes. i didn't feel "unsafe" per-say. i wouldn't step foot there with how it is now. in the last 5yrs i went from downtown to leaving vancouver proper. from taxes, to planning, to crime and everything in between; its just falling apart honestly... and many others feel this way. you can try to argue it all you want, but just look around.
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  #724  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
the neighbourhoods around the DTES don't stand a chance if the DTES isn't fixed. with that tent city now on hastings, it wont happen; good luck. it will just keep spilling over to the surrounding places. its even spilling to other areas of downtown such as the west end, denman, davie, robson. these streets are not like they used to be.
I agree but Tent City is going to happen somewhere in this city until people who are actually willing to tackle the problem head on get voted in. First it was in Oppenheimer, then Stratchona, and now East Hastings. I would say that it was further out of control when it was popping up at Oppenheimer and Strathcona parks affecting the neighbourhoods there; whereas, and I hate to say it, but with Tent City being on East Hastings at least keeps the problem in an already problematic area.

It all boils down to the fact that no politician for the last 20+ years wants to roll up their sleeves and seriously tackle the issue without virtue signaling it.

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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
add in the fact CoV is forcing businesses to remove window protection because they violate character, that just adds insult to injury. as a business, how do you even begin to handle this? you cant afford new glass every few days, and you cant even protect your windows because the government bans it. the same government who wont stop the criminals. i can see why businesses are just leaving... not to mention now people dont want to go there since its unsafe for the average person. you can argue all you want if it is safe or not, the perception is it is not safe. the city as a whole is now seen as unsafe in general.
Exactly.

And it isn't safe when there is a stabbing spree or a machete spree happening every 3rd week. Where are the knife and machete permits ?

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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
more than 5yrs ago i did work by myself along hastings right from the west, to east through the DTES including in the back lanes. i didn't feel "unsafe" per-say. i wouldn't step foot there with how it is now. in the last 5yrs i went from downtown to leaving vancouver proper. from taxes, to planning, to crime and everything in between; its just falling apart honestly... and many others feel this way. you can try to argue it all you want, but just look around.
I also think that a lot of residents are in denial that Vancouver is enacting similar policies to San Francisco. And look how that place ended up. It's like Vancouver is baking a cake using the same ingredients that San Francisco used and is expecting it to taste different .

/rantoff
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  #725  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
add in the fact CoV is forcing businesses to remove window protection because they violate character, that just adds insult to injury. as a business, how do you even begin to handle this? you cant afford new glass every few days, and you cant even protect your windows because the government bans it. the same government who wont stop the criminals. i can see why businesses are just leaving... not to mention now people dont want to go there since its unsafe for the average person. you can argue all you want if it is safe or not, the perception is it is not safe. the city as a whole is now seen as unsafe in general.
You've repeated this story as if it's the normal experience in Chinatown for the City to force businesses to remove window protection. Walking through Chinatown in the evening it's pretty obvious that almost every building has some sort of shutters, and has had for some time. 'Forcing businesses to remove window protection because they violate character' suggests that there's a business that didn't get a permit for an installation, and was then told they had to remove it (and get a permit)?
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  #726  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
You've repeated this story as if it's the normal experience in Chinatown for the City to force businesses to remove window protection. Walking through Chinatown in the evening it's pretty obvious that almost every building has some sort of shutters, and has had for some time. 'Forcing businesses to remove window protection because they violate character' suggests that there's a business that didn't get a permit for an installation, and was then told they had to remove it (and get a permit)?
do you really think its a compassionate thing to do, with how backed up CoV is for permits, you really think the right way to do this is force a business to get their windows smashed over and over while waiting for a permit? is this really what we want to do? "sorry store owner, i know your windows keep getting smashed, and i know we do nothing about it, but nope you'll just have to live with that until we get around to letting you, maybe, do something to protect yourself"

its ridiculous. sure, they didn't get a permit, i get that, but to make someone remove a protection because their business is smashed MULTIPLE times is insane. it just shows how out of touch CoV really is becoming. this is the same city the refuses to do anything about the issue and the Mayor says that Vancouver is "one of the safest... the city is doing enough" if you have the head of the city saying the city is fine, and they're doing enough, while ALL of this stuff is going on, then the city really is screwed.

i really dont see where CoV can get out of this at this point. its been so long with bad policies and bad leadership that i think its too far gone at this point.

CoV seems to only care about vagrants/criminals/drug addicts. they give the middle finger to the rest of their residents and business owners.
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  #727  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 8:21 PM
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Shows that some people have indeed no heart for others, especially for those who are always trying hard to provide for their families or to make a society work for the better.
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  #728  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 8:25 PM
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I went to the Festival as well, and took a walk around the Hood, very little recovery, looks like a loosing battle ... all the best.
What "battle"??
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  #729  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
do you really think its a compassionate thing to do, with how backed up CoV is for permits, you really think the right way to do this is force a business to get their windows smashed over and over while waiting for a permit? is this really what we want to do? "sorry store owner, i know your windows keep getting smashed, and i know we do nothing about it, but nope you'll just have to live with that until we get around to letting you, maybe, do something to protect yourself"

its ridiculous. sure, they didn't get a permit, i get that, but to make someone remove a protection because their business is smashed MULTIPLE times is insane. it just shows how out of touch CoV really is becoming. this is the same city the refuses to do anything about the issue and the Mayor says that Vancouver is "one of the safest... the city is doing enough" if you have the head of the city saying the city is fine, and they're doing enough, while ALL of this stuff is going on, then the city really is screwed.

i really dont see where CoV can get out of this at this point. its been so long with bad policies and bad leadership that i think its too far gone at this point.

CoV seems to only care about vagrants/criminals/drug addicts. they give the middle finger to the rest of their residents and business owners.
No. I would expect them to keep the windows boarded up until they got a permit. They could even add a message to the City on the hoarding - "We're waiting for a permit to allow us to put shutters here. We've been waiting since [date here]".
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  #730  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
Went to the Chinatown festival and I haven't felt this disenchantment with its future since I moved into the area over a decade ago. The booths occupied just one side of the street on only a single block on Keefer between Columbia and Carrall. Even arguable if you could call that Chinatown but let's let that pass. There was no booth that actually related to Chinatown, had a bunch of municipal parties, BC hydro, td bank, genesis security *sigh*. Even the Chinese cultural centre couldnt bother to open their doors. The Sun-Yat Sen park has its gates closed on both Columbia and Pender, you need to sneak in via a small mandoor along Carrall. Wish the festival would've brought in Chinatown merchants and been held within its current footprint to have broightnmore traffic to them.
I can imagine that was quite disappointing for you, as you've been pretty passionate about that neighbourhood for along time. Gastown/Chinatown seems to always be "next year" country. Every few years there's a prominent development and everyone says this time it will finally turn the corner but it doesn't. This despite some high profile institutions and restaurants there. I have some friends who bought new in the area a few years ago and they've become quite disenchanted.
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  #731  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 9:40 PM
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... Gastown/Chinatown seems to always be "next year" country. Every few years there's a prominent development and everyone says this time it will finally turn the corner but it doesn't. This despite some high profile institutions and restaurants there. I have some friends who bought new in the area a few years ago and they've become quite disenchanted.
The opening of the new St. Paul's Hospital may be a game changer, but maybe more for the part of Chinatown that is east of Main St.
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  #732  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 10:00 PM
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Doesn't help that the "old" Chinatown crowd hates the "new" Chinatown. Hard to turn the community around when the community doesn't want to turn.
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  #733  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
Went to the Chinatown festival and I haven't felt this disenchantment with its future since I moved into the area over a decade ago. The booths occupied just one side of the street on only a single block on Keefer between Columbia and Carrall. Even arguable if you could call that Chinatown but let's let that pass. There was no booth that actually related to Chinatown, had a bunch of municipal parties, BC hydro, td bank, genesis security *sigh*. Even the Chinese cultural centre couldnt bother to open their doors. The Sun-Yat Sen park has its gates closed on both Columbia and Pender, you need to sneak in via a small mandoor along Carrall. Wish the festival would've brought in Chinatown merchants and been held within its current footprint to have broightnmore traffic to them.
I walked through the festival on Sunday, and was surprised how little was on offer. I wonder if it's an indication of a tipping point for Chinatown businesses? It was organized by the Chinatown BIA, so there should have been support from local businesses, but clearly there wasn't. The website promised there would be 24 food trucks. There were three.

Overall the vacancy is probably no higher than a couple of years ago, and a few more 'Chinese' businesses and restaurants have opened, but many others have closed. Some are struggling the same as many others in Vancouver - Tannis Ling opened Nancy Go Yaya on E Pender, and it seemed busy, but she has had to close it because she couldn't get staff.

Tim Hortons opened up but Starbucks closed down. Tin Lee has joined Ming Wo in closing, but there is a newly opened EV scooter store, and a vegan clothing boutique. The Chinese Storytelling Centre is good, and Foo Hung Curios adds a new Chinese store, but many more have closed. (That's not just a Vancouver thing - the best Chinese store in Portland's Pearl District couldn't survive there either). It's perhaps partly because the things they sold have gone mainstream - now there's Oomomo on Robson, and Yokoyaya on Granville and ABC in International Village, all Asian (nominally Japanese in some cases), all inexpensive. The rise of Dollarama and Dollar Tree also offers cheap 'stuff' that some of Chinatown's stores supplied.

The younger Asian owned businesses are often food-based, but they aren't necessarily specifically Chinese. Propaganda coffee, for example, or Kouign Café, or Mello Donuts are all great additions to the area - if they all survive. Virtuous Pie seems to do well, and the added Mila next door on Keefer, which even added a street patio instead of parking.

The heritage buildings are still there (and in some cases struggling to be maintained as the older demographic of Chinese age, and the younger ones seem less interested in Family Societies). The new museum replacing Bob Rennie's offices should help boost the heritage aspect of the area, but it's hard to see how there could be as many herb stores, or dried foods, or greengrocers in future as there are now, just as there aren't as many now as there were 10 or 20 years ago.

The artificial 'new business' immigration program seems to have finally been closed down. (The same store would 'reopen' every year or two, with a row of fancy flower displays along the sidewalk announcing the new owner. The new owners apparently didn't worry too much if they traded at a loss; after a while they could apply for citizenship, and sell the business). When they opened they'd offer a discount, and there could be lineups of people buying discounted dried prawns. That made Chinatown feel busy - even when it really wasn't. Now the line-ups are when there's a release of a new sneaker design at Livestock.

Until the BIA will get some good ideas to market the area, or a continuing stream of interesting new businesses, it's likely the area will struggle. There's a lot of retail space, and it would seem, only a limited demand. And obviously covid doesn't help.
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  #734  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 10:36 PM
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RE-connecting East and West Gore St would do wonders. And that building on main and Union finally going up
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  #735  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 10:50 PM
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looks like LARRYS MARKET is abandoning ship in Chinatown as well. (what a stupid plan to open that location in the first place)

https://restaurantbusinessbroker.ca/rest...orgia-street-vancouver-v6a-1z6.97550738/
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  #736  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 10:59 PM
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looks like LARRYS MARKET is abandoning ship in Chinatown as well. (what a stupid plan to open that location in the first place)

https://restaurantbusinessbroker.ca/rest...orgia-street-vancouver-v6a-1z6.97550738/
That business was so out of place there
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  #737  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 11:18 PM
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Anytime the City announces some type of "action plan" for the area, new business will take advantage of the cheap lease in the neighborhood and hope they are on the cusp of a permanent recovery.
Eventually some will get lucky, lots of bodies in between.
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  #738  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
Went to the Chinatown festival and I haven't felt this disenchantment with its future since I moved into the area over a decade ago. The booths occupied just one side of the street on only a single block on Keefer between Columbia and Carrall. Even arguable if you could call that Chinatown but let's let that pass. There was no booth that actually related to Chinatown, had a bunch of municipal parties, BC hydro, td bank, genesis security *sigh*. Even the Chinese cultural centre couldnt bother to open their doors. The Sun-Yat Sen park has its gates closed on both Columbia and Pender, you need to sneak in via a small mandoor along Carrall. Wish the festival would've brought in Chinatown merchants and been held within its current footprint to have broightnmore traffic to them.
(many) points taken but one thing they did have was a Real Police Presence you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a cop-contrast this with Africafest in Thorton Park no security and less organisation just a dead zone.
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  #739  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 12:47 AM
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No. I would expect them to keep the windows boarded up until they got a permit. They could even add a message to the City on the hoarding - "We're waiting for a permit to allow us to put shutters here. We've been waiting since [date here]".
because nothing says "yes customers, my store is safe & welcoming!" as a bunch of boarded up windows.

what should be done is a little bit of acknowledgement that maybe there is an issue in the area which a lot of it can be blamed on city/province/federal government policies and common sense should start. instead of just punishing people for trying to protect their livelihood. trying to keep going on in their community. trying to at least keep some sense of normalcy in what is the hellhole of the area.

but i guess that is just too much to expect. better to cross those "t's" and dot those "i's" and protect the vagrants/criminals/drug addicts. i mean who needs stores or taxpayers anyways right? the welfare state will save us all!
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  #740  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 2:49 AM
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They should start by blanketing Chinatown with CCTV.
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