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  #721  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 5:27 PM
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I have little faith it's going to help. Hope I'm wrong. If not, hope it will be enough to finally show the City more cops is not the solution.
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  #722  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 5:32 PM
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I have little faith it's going to help. Hope I'm wrong. If not, hope it will be enough to finally show the City more cops is not the solution.
Based on the description it sounds like there is a social services component that will be included, so that would be a positive.

Agree that more cops is not the solution to the ills that are impacting the Byward Market, but I do see a value in having a visible police presence in key tourist areas.
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  #723  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 8:17 PM
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At the very least maybe for 100 meters either side of this new storefront location?
So what you're saying is all pot shops should become cop shops so we have constant 100 metre coverage
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  #724  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 8:31 PM
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So what you're saying is all pot shops should become cop shops so we have constant 100 metre coverage
Leave the pot shops alone! Make all the Shawarma Shops cop shops, then we will have 25 metre coverage.
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  #725  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 8:36 PM
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I have little faith it's going to help. Hope I'm wrong. If not, hope it will be enough to finally show the City more cops is not the solution.
I agree cops are not the solution in the sociological or wholistic sense, but an increased presence can be effective in reducing criminal behavior in a particular area.
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  #726  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 9:24 PM
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I agree cops are not the solution in the sociological or wholistic sense, but an increased presence can be effective in reducing criminal behavior in a particular area.
An increased presence doesn't need a physical shop...so its a 'solution' that has been available for years and years.
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  #727  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2023, 1:31 PM
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Based on the description it sounds like there is a social services component that will be included, so that would be a positive.

Agree that more cops is not the solution to the ills that are impacting the Byward Market, but I do see a value in having a visible police presence in key tourist areas.
If it's various services, not just the police, it could be more effective. Best spot IMO would be the old McDonald's (providing access on two streets, though that might be considered a "security issue") or whatever replaces the parking garage.
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  #728  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2023, 8:09 PM
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As residents worry about safety, city moves to revitalize Ottawa's ByWard Market

Liam Fox, The Canadian Press
Published Jun 24, 2023 • 5 minute read




In Ottawa’s bustling ByWard Market, tourists and residents from across the city take selfies, indulge in diverse cuisine, buy souvenirs and enjoy drinks on patios as they explore the historic neighbourhood just east of downtown.

Near the market stalls displaying fresh vegetables and vendors selling handmade goods are signs of distress, such as people with ripped clothing laying on the ground near downtown shelters, or visibly using drugs.

Activity has resumed in earnest in the historic neighbourhood after the COVID-19 pandemic emptied the streets of the usual traffic and forced some businesses shut. But the layered problems that have long earned the market a reputation for being unsafe have not abated, and a 2021 police report said it has the highest rate of violent crime and second-highest total crime in the city.

Amid concerns about security, the City of Ottawa has embarked on a revitalization plan that it hopes will finally turn things around. A newly appointed municipal corporation has been tasked with improving security in the area, and Mayor Mark Sutcliffe insists things are getting better.

Sylvie Bigras has lived in Lowertown, a residential area that extends to the north and west of the market, for 41 years.

“There have been some serious changes in the last decades,” said Bigras, who is president of the Lowertown Community Association.

“I’m really well entrenched in the community, and I’ve been able to keenly observe the changes over the years, and the one thing I’ve noticed — and actually residents and even business owners support this fact — is that safety and security has become even more of an issue than ever.”

She said she has heard concerns from realtors whose clients refuse to buy or rent in the area and from residents whose dogs have died after consuming toxic substances on the ground, and who’ve said things like: “My five-year-old daughter can’t play in the front yard because there’s needles left there.”

That’s “a big wake-up call,” said Bigras.

The city approved a $129 million revitalization plan in 2021, and the issue was heavily debated during last fall’s municipal election.

Earlier this month, Ottawa announced a new authority would replace the local BIA. The ByWard Market District Authority was given a mandate to “improve community safety and well-being,” among other tasks.

As the new district authority assumes responsibility, it will receive $200,000 in one-time funding towards redesigning streets and public spaces in the market.

A new neighbourhood operations centre for the market is also in the works. It would centralize police, community resource officers and social programs.

Sutcliffe proposed the hub during his mayoral campaign. He said last week he has been working with the Ottawa Police Service on “moving that forward.” It would come out of the police budget, he said, “on whatever timetable that they feel is achievable in the months ahead.”

Bigras said she “100 per cent” supports the plan, but suggested it is only a short-term solution.

Over time, she said, the area has become congested with all those in need of help, because the bulk of the city’s social services and emergency housing are in one concentrated area.

Bigras gave the example of a 16-year-old boy who lived about an hour away from downtown and was told during a mental health crisis that the nearest support available to him was at the Salvation Army’s Ottawa Booth Centre on George Street in the market.

When he got there, Bigras said, he was turned away because the program was full.

She said the city should focus on spreading out its social services.

“Every single ward has to have emergency housing,” said Bigras “Then you’re not going to be sending everyone into one small space that has become violent and unsafe.”

Another nearby shelter just southeast of the market, The Ottawa Mission, has been over capacity for several years running, said its CEO Peter Tilley.

“We’re putting mats down in the chapel room floor. We’re seeing people lining up waiting to get a bed,” he said.

Tilley agreed that spreading emergency housing across the city would help control overflow in the downtown shelters.

But those who are living in poverty, who struggle with mental illness and drug use, are not responsible for the overall safety concerns in the market, he said.

There is also the presence of gangs and violent criminals, and vulnerable people are often their targets.

“They’re open to predators, to drug dealers, to all sorts of influences that go with encampments and when you’re sleeping on the streets,” said Tilley.

He said increased police presence and community resources of the kind the city is discussing could help deter and de-escalate crime.

“Those officers are going to be trained in intervention. They’re going to be trained to deal with people in distress and provide assistance. Even if things are escalating, they’ll be there to intervene,” he said.

Brian Lahey, the secretary for a local real-estate development company, said that improving public safety would help draw business back into the area.

“Shoplifting and aggressive panhandling and having vagrants sleeping on the sidewalk is destroying the daytime activity,” Lahey, who works for the Priorities Group, said during a city council committee hearing earlier this month.

“Nighttime security is also an issue. Gangs and shootings must stop.”

Police recorded the equivalent of more than 11,000 crimes per 100,000 people in the Rideau-Vanier ward that includes the market in 2021, compared to rates lower than 4,500 in two adjacent wards. The only ward that features a higher overall crime rate is neighbouring Somerset, which includes Ottawa’s downtown.

Trends reports show that the rate of crime is about the same as it was almost a decade earlier. And violent crime in the ward has also remained consistent, at about 2,000 instances per 100,000 people in both 2012 and 2021.

Still, Sutcliffe said at a recent news conference that he is encouraged by the current status of the market.

“I think by and large things have been getting better,” he said last week. “I’ve heard from a number of business owners who are feeling optimistic. They feel like more people are coming to the ByWard Market. They feel good about that.”

But he said he understands the concerns.

“They are still concerned about safety for their employees and customers, and obviously the residents and tourists who are visiting as well,” said Sutcliffe.

Bigras said she is more hopeful than ever that Ottawa’s current council, mayor and Rideau-Vanier Coun. Stephanie Plante want to address the community’s concerns.

She said the city has adopted her residents’ association’s strategic plan, called “24 in 24” — meaning there should be social services across all 24 wards in Ottawa.

And though the plan tackling public safety challenges in the neighbourhood is still developing, it is now underway.

“This is the first time I’ve seen in decades of living in Lowertown where the city is actually listening, caring, acknowledging and moving,” she said.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published June 24, 2023.

https://ottawacitizen.com/pmn/news-p...d-69a4e43e0b70
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  #729  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2023, 5:15 PM
Jay31 Jay31 is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
[B][SIZE="4"]
Bigras gave the example of a 16-year-old boy who lived about an hour away from downtown and was told during a mental health crisis that the nearest support available to him was at the Salvation Army’s Ottawa Booth Centre on George Street in the market.
I think in between the lines of this story is one of the problems that no politician wants to talk about and most residents don't want to believe or do anything about - that homeless, addicts and mentally ill from across the city - and even the region end up in the Byward market (or downtown), because that's where they think they can get support (or in some cases are even given a ride by locals who don't want to deal with them). I think many in the city - particularly outside downtown are quite happy about the arrangement, because it leaves these people out of sight and out of mind.

I don't live too far out of downtown - an inner neighbourhood, and even one mentally ill person shouting at someone at nearby grocery store resulted in a lengthy thread on the neighbourhood facebook group. The recent fuss about the Larga Baffin project is another example... I have trouble believing the many NIMBYs groups who get up in arms about duplexes will accept any services for addicts or mentally ill outside of the core. We have trouble even building houses for people with money...

More police will just inflate the police budget.. I can't remember a place with a heavy police presence that ever felt safe. In general, I don't feel unsafe in the byward market - it's full of kids and families during the day, but it is also full of problems. It's just sad that we don't invest more in real solutions for mental illness, drug addiction and homelessness vs police bandaid solutions to make us "feel" safer. I'd much rather my taxes went to such programs rather than more police to sit around.
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  #730  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2023, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay31 View Post
More police will just inflate the police budget.. I can't remember a place with a heavy police presence that ever felt safe. In general, I don't feel unsafe in the byward market - it's full of kids and families during the day, but it is also full of problems. It's just sad that we don't invest more in real solutions for mental illness, drug addiction and homelessness vs police bandaid solutions to make us "feel" safer. I'd much rather my taxes went to such programs rather than more police to sit around.
I don’t mind an increased police presence as a short term solution to safety issues. But you’re right that the real solution involves long term programs. I just don’t think they are mutually exclusive. Residents and visitors need to feel safe now, and more police do help with that more than any other short term solution.

Another key is spreading out supports and not concentrating them all in one place. I’d like to see the city agree on a fairness principle that sees every ward do their share. The people needing the services originate in every ward in the city, so it makes sense from that perspective as well. Each ward could decide on where to locate the services, provided that they are transit accessible. But I’ve had enough of suburban wards refusing to take any of the burden and the complaining about how bad downtown is becoming.
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  #731  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 12:26 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Jay31 View Post
I think in between the lines of this story is one of the problems that no politician wants to talk about and most residents don't want to believe or do anything about - that homeless, addicts and mentally ill from across the city - and even the region end up in the Byward market (or downtown), because that's where they think they can get support (or in some cases are even given a ride by locals who don't want to deal with them). I think many in the city - particularly outside downtown are quite happy about the arrangement, because it leaves these people out of sight and out of mind.

I don't live too far out of downtown - an inner neighbourhood, and even one mentally ill person shouting at someone at nearby grocery store resulted in a lengthy thread on the neighbourhood facebook group. The recent fuss about the Larga Baffin project is another example... I have trouble believing the many NIMBYs groups who get up in arms about duplexes will accept any services for addicts or mentally ill outside of the core. We have trouble even building houses for people with money...

More police will just inflate the police budget.. I can't remember a place with a heavy police presence that ever felt safe. In general, I don't feel unsafe in the byward market - it's full of kids and families during the day, but it is also full of problems. It's just sad that we don't invest more in real solutions for mental illness, drug addiction and homelessness vs police bandaid solutions to make us "feel" safer. I'd much rather my taxes went to such programs rather than more police to sit around.
Don't disagree with your first points but yes police can increase safety. They stopped a man with a knife just today.
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  #732  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 11:43 AM
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Don't disagree with your first points but yes police can increase safety. They stopped a man with a knife just today.
It sounds like they shot the guy... though as is always the case when police shoot someone, it's now all "hush hush". Saying police increase safety though is like saying fire fighters increase fire safety. In both cases, if you need a lot of them, you have bigger problems that you should be solving.

I'll admit, I'm biased because my interactions with Ottawa police have shown them to be an extremely bloated apathetic organization that needs 3 fully kitted cops in cruisers to sit around and do nothing while citizens do their job...and police just swoop into to write the report at the end. I've never seen an organization that did so little with so much money.
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  #733  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 12:25 PM
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It sounds like they shot the guy... though as is always the case when police shoot someone, it's now all "hush hush". Saying police increase safety though is like saying fire fighters increase fire safety. In both cases, if you need a lot of them, you have bigger problems that you should be solving.

I'll admit, I'm biased because my interactions with Ottawa police have shown them to be an extremely bloated apathetic organization that needs 3 fully kitted cops in cruisers to sit around and do nothing while citizens do their job...and police just swoop into to write the report at the end. I've never seen an organization that did so little with so much money.
Say what? It's all over the news.
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  #734  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2023, 9:27 PM
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Security costs in ByWard Market rising at 'unsustainable rate'
Ottawa Markets says theft and harassment problems need new solutions

Arthur White-Crummey · CBC News
Posted: Jun 29, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: June 29




Security costs to protect the ByWard Market are becoming unbearable, pushing the group that manages it to look for another way to deal with problems with theft and harassment.

Zachary Dayler, executive director for Ottawa Markets, told city council Wednesday that security costs are "increasing at an unsustainable rate."

He later told CBC News the non-profit, which manages the ByWard and Parkdale markets, is spending about $280,000 per year to hire two private security agents at its historic ByWard Market building.

It's also brought in a drive-by patrol at Parkdale amid problems with theft and break-ins.

Dayler said those costs are now at the limit of what Ottawa Markets can support, raising a need to look elsewhere to "increase the presence of eyes on the street."

"The demands in the area are just increasing such that we can't continue to add onto our program any further. It is sort of at the max in terms of what we can spend as a not-for-profit," he said.

"So we are going to evaluate new solutions as we move forward, whether that will be a watchperson-type program, whether that be better relationships with Ottawa police."

The city is leading an effort to create a hub in the ByWard Market that would combine an increased police presence with other social services.

Dayler said it's become clear police are not there to "subsidize" private security in the market building and deal with issues according to their own priorities.

He said problems include harassment and small-scale theft, including clothing, and "challenges" connected to social services near the ByWard Market play a role in driving up security costs.

"This is a product of what's known as the cluster model, where you have a high variety of social services all within one area and so that leads to certain challenges that can come up," he said.

Rideau-Vanier Coun. Stéphanie Plante, whose ward includes the ByWard Market, said there's a need to look at accelerating plans to increase the police presence there.

Recent violence in the area — this month alone has seen a police-involved shooting that left one dead and a shooting that harmed bystanders — only make that more pressing for her.

"Probably the number one thing that I heard throughout the election while I was going door to door is people want that police presence in the ByWard. They don't necessarily want it in a silo, they want it with some social supports as well," she said.

"I'd like to make sure that there is some special constables from OC Transpo and bylaw, as well, going around on foot, taking care of our ByWard Market and ensuring it gets the love that it deserves because it is the crown jewel of the city."

Mayor Mark Sutcliffe said safety continues to be a concern, one that he's monitoring closely.

"It's not a situation that's going to change overnight, but there's a lot of good people working on this right now and I think over time we are going to see the situation in the ByWard Market improve," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...cost-1.6891451
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  #735  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2023, 9:42 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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$140,000 per year for a security guard? I wonder where I can get some of that action?
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  #736  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2023, 9:43 AM
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$140,000 per year for a security guard? I wonder where I can get some of that action?
Are they from a sub-contractor? If so, they are paying for salaries, benefits, vacation AND the sub-contractor's profits. It would be cheaper to hire their own security guards.
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  #737  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2023, 1:00 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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^ lol. At that point, the money loss from theft would most certainly be less than the cost of security.
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  #738  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2023, 3:36 PM
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Didn't really hang out in the Market much during the pandemic, so the creeping forest of high rises in the backdrop really struck me the other day.



Seeing this also made me say WTF:

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  #739  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2023, 9:17 PM
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I'm worried about this becoming the situation for Rideau Centre and the Byward Market in the not so distant future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4qWXHuYqf8
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  #740  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2023, 9:33 PM
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I'm worried about this becoming the situation for Rideau Centre and the Byward Market in the not so distant future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4qWXHuYqf8
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I guess it'd be irresponsible to completely dismiss that possibility, but as someone who spends lots of time in SFO, I can tell you that Ottawa's problem is nowhere near as bad as theirs.

That being said, I do think the long term success of the Market hinges on decentralizing amenities/services for the homeless, which are currently concentrated in that district.
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