LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[pwright1]

One of the interior designers of the store was there and was thrilled with how it all turned out. He pointed out those interior columns are (I believe he said marble) original and fully restored. Those steps are original and restored. The wood was originally some sort of african wood that is no longer in use and had to be carefully replicated. After he showed me all of that I was pretty impressed. He also said that national retailers are observing and taking note of all the buzz in dt LA.

Did you guys notice Brooks Brothers put their 'coming spring 2013' signage on their Fig storefront?

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by pwright1

One of the interior designers of the store was there and was thrilled with how it all turned out. He pointed out those interior columns are (I believe he said marble) original and fully restored. Those steps are original and restored. The wood was originally some sort of african wood that is no longer in use and had to be carefully replicated. After he showed me all of that I was pretty impressed. He also said that national retailers are observing and taking note of all the buzz in dt LA.

Did you guys notice Brooks Brothers put their 'coming spring 2013' signage on their Fig storefront?

I read on Curbed that they are planning to open up another location at The Johnathan Club.

[RuFFy]

Personally, I agree that there are racist undertones to Hunter K's comments. For instance, he once used the term "brownies" to describe shoppers at Target. Though he isn't consistently using that term it's not hard to see that that's what he means. And granted, we all want to see more shoppers and higher caliber store fronts not just on Broadway but all over downtown. Here is where I disconnect from Hunter. Those one day affluent shoppers he imagines will be the children of those "brownies", in effect keeping the shoppers "brownies". As an example sample the forumers in here. There are Mexican, like myself and I'm quite proud of that... But not so proud that I'd boast. There are Asians, a culture I grew up with and appreciate very much. We've got one of the coolest black guys in town. We, as a group, are the kind of people that will one day likely live or already live in downtown. That IS Los Angeles. If Hunter K was actually from Los Angeles he may realize that and better understand how his comments are a slap in the face to many forumers.. but more importantly, the very people who form the fabric of Los Angeles. Kind of like he also doesn't see the huge amounts of improvement downtown has shown over the years that other forumers (brownies, Asians, Black, etc) have followed for years. And here he arrives with a holier than thou attitude... why are brownies shopping here? Downtown is (insert negative comment here). We get it, you want a more flashier downtown urban scape. We get the other story too.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

Personally, I agree that there are racist undertones to Hunter K's comments. For instance, he once used the term "brownies" to describe shoppers at Target. Though he isn't consistently using that term it's not hard to see that that's what he means. And granted, we all want to see more shoppers and higher caliber store fronts not just on Broadway but all over downtown. Here is where I disconnect from Hunter. Those one day affluent shoppers he imagines will be the children of those "brownies", in effect keeping the shoppers "brownies". As an example sample the forumers in here. There are Mexican, like myself and I'm quite proud of that... But not so proud that I'd boast. There are Asians, a culture I grew up with and appreciate very much. We've got one of the coolest black guys in town. We, as a group, are the kind of people that will one day likely live or already live in downtown. That IS Los Angeles. If Hunter K was actually from Los Angeles he may realize that and better understand how his comments are a slap in the face to many forumers.. but more importantly, the very people who form the fabric of Los Angeles. Kind of like he also doesn't see the huge amounts of improvement downtown has shown over the years that other forumers (brownies, Asians, Black, etc) have followed for years. And here he arrives with a holier than thou attitude... why are brownies shopping here? Downtown is (insert negative comment here). We get it, you want a more flashier downtown urban scape. We get the other story too.

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23600000/Snoop-dogg-snoop-dogg-23613127-468-637.jpg

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

Personally, I agree that there are racist undertones to Hunter K's comments. For instance, he once used the term "brownies" to describe shoppers at Target. Though he isn't consistently using that term it's not hard to see that that's what he means.

His comments are more classist than anything else. The fact that "brownies" (that term was never used) are shopping on Broadway isn't the problem. It's the fact that Broadway, in its current state, is a dump with borderline second world conditions. That doesn't mean that swap meets and wholesale retailers don't have a place... just not on Broadway.

Personally, I like the addition of Ross Dress for Less. It doesn't have to be high-end, just decent. For now.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesDreamin

one thing i don't like though is the Ross signage.. yes its their trademark but maybe they could change it to make it look a little more high class.. i just think of the suburbs when i see a Ross sign. An urban Ross signage would be nice... mabe in the same font and gold color that the woolworth had before.

it's sort of the opposite of the old woolworths, in that its sign on the front, embossed in gold, actually looked like it belonged to kind of a high end business instead of a discounter, while its blade sign, in red, looks kind of 'feh' to me.

pwright1's pic shows a colorized pic hanging in the new ross store, so I don't know how accurate the graphic is. but if an actual color photo from the same time would look very similar, then the pros & cons of the old woolworths & the new ross end up being a mixed bag....



pwright1

I think the ross's blade sign, with the neon, is nice, but the signage attached to the facade, in blue, is kind of 'feh'.

as for the type of shoppers on broadway, I personally don't respect ppl....regardless of their background....who patronize shops that are so rundown & dirty looking. I also don't respect shopkeepers who run disgusting looking businesses. And finally I don't respect property owners who allow their bldgs & tenants to make a city look like a big dive.

It would be nice if the entire bunch were picked up & relocated to a drive in movie theater which doubles for a swapmeet during the day, or a place like cypress college in OC....which at least a few yrs ago had swapmeets in the parking lot on a weekly basis.

I know cliftons a few yrs ago was getting cited by the city for violating some type of sign code. I believe it was merely cuz of the lettering applied to their front window or doors. So if the city can crack down on that business, of all businesses on broadway, then why is it allowing the really stores to remain as bad as they've been?!

broadway has made dtla seem like a sad joke for over 40 yrs. It has made many ppl, including locals & visitors, not take the hood seriously. It has made it all too easy for ppl to justify why dt was abandoned for the burbs yrs & yrs ago. That is what truly infuriates me....anything else in this thread seems to be OT or even flame bait, or troll type of jabbering as far as I'm concerned.

[Just-In-Cali]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

And HunterK is back! I've never really minded your opinions (the truth stings, though perhaps the hyperbolic negativity could be toned down). This thread has been a little empty without your daily (or sometimes hourly) photo updates.

There is a difference between HIS truth and THE truth...but im sure he's happy to have a buddy here defending him.

What is probably the most offensive about these "thoughts" our dear Hunter keeps gracing us with, is that suddenly...the people that have been living in DT for years...well before this forum or any of you who live there now...have no right or purpose being there just because some self important hipsters from the exo burbs that watched one too many episodes of Sex and the City, decide that they are now "urban dynamos" and move to the DT area. Then they basically expect it to be a 50 story version of Downtown Disney.
Downtown didnt just pop up a week before these people deign to move here...it will take time for it to reach this urban ideal (depending on whose ideal your going for).
Ross opening...whether you shop there or not...is a step. A major corporate store opened on Broadway...its a seed. Times square was a dump from the late 60s through the early 90s...and little by little it evolved.
And yes, its not Saks, but lets see...all affluent white suburbs are packed full of Ross', mainly because its a clearing house of overstock from other higher end stores. So yes, middle class customers go there.
But Ruffy hits it on the head. Hunter and a few others here...ahem...simply dont like that its not more people LIKE THEM downtown yet. Until that happens...they will continue to hurl vaguely bigoted commentary on here.
Perhaps they'd be happier in Thousand Oaks...oh...sorry, there is a Ross there...nevermind.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by pwright1

One of the interior designers of the store was there and was thrilled with how it all turned out. He pointed out those interior columns are (I believe he said marble) original and fully restored. Those steps are original and restored. The wood was originally some sort of african wood that is no longer in use and had to be carefully replicated. After he showed me all of that I was pretty impressed.

another good thing is ross installed glass sided escalators, which look much, much better....& probably are more $$...than escalators that have solid steel sides. I would guess glass sided escalators also require more maintenance...& therefore $$...to keep them looking clean.

I noticed that when Disney hall was built, for any number of reasons they used steel sided escalators in the lobby, which to my eye look kind of dumpy & old fashioned, & lower budget.

I wonder what the original ceilings were like when the bldg was a woolworths? I notice ross has installed a typical modern type of generic drop ceiling, which are kind of blah & low cost looking to me. But I've been in nordstroms, no less, which also have drop ceilings, although the panels may be a somewhat fancier grade....but they still have that kind of mass produced, commercialized look about them.

[Quixote]

Just-In-Cali, seriously? One self-righteous, hyperbolic rant after another. If it weren't for the fact that you don't post too frequently, you'd be just as insufferable as citywatch.

Sorry, but I don't want to see people on Broadway diving through garbage bins or getting arrested (yes, I have actually seen that happen). I don't know about you, but that's not exactly ideal. "Brownies" themselves aren't the problem. The businesses they own, run, and patron on Broadway are. Like I said, there's a place for everything. Broadway deserves better.

Yep, Thousand Oaks is very nice. Surprise surprise, it ain't my cup of tea.

[RuFFy]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

His comments are more classist than anything else. The fact that "brownies" (that term was never used) are shopping on Broadway isn't the problem. It's the fact that Broadway, in its current state, is a dump with borderline second world conditions. That doesn't mean that swap meets and wholesale retailers don't have a place... just not on Broadway.

Personally, I like the addition of Ross Dress for Less. It doesn't have to be high-end, just decent. For now.

Please re-read my post. He used the term brownie when describing the grand opening of TARGET, not broadway.. I also stated though he does not use the term regularly there are undertones of it, which is why multiple forumers recognize it. And I don't know what's going on in the land of out of context, but in the land of Los Angeles it just turns out that the place for these businesses actually IS Broadway. Right now, today. You'd have much greater footing if you had made this statement somewhere around 1986 and actually meant it. But I'm willing to bet you weren't staking your interests on Broadway then. Another group, with loud music, did though. Now I'm also not saying I don't want to see the area evolve over time to reflect increased investment and affluence. I'd like to see that. But because I'm as Angelino as it gets, I can say with a 100% certainty that the growing affluence will reflect the region. And that doesn't exactly reflect a lack of brownies, or any other culture for that matter.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

Please re-read my post. He used the term brownie when describing the grand opening of TARGET, not broadway.. I also stated though he does not use the term regularly there are undertones of it, which is why multiple forumers recognize it. And I don't know what's going on in the land of out of context, but in the land of Los Angeles it just turns out that the place for these businesses actually IS Broadway. Right now, today. You'd have much greater footing if you had made this statement somewhere around 1986 and actually meant it. But I'm willing to bet you weren't staking your interests on Broadway then. Another group, with loud music, did though. Now I'm also not saying I don't want to see the area evolve over time to reflect increased investment and affluence. I'd like to see that. But because I'm as Angelino as it gets, I can say with a 100% certainty that the growing affluence will reflect the region. And that doesn't exactly reflect a lack of brownies, or any other culture for that matter.

Co-sign on all of this.

There's a reason Broadway still has the best foot traffic out of any street in downtown. It's the same reason that the Westlake/McArthur Park neighborhood always bustles with activity.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

Please re-read my post. He used the term brownie when describing the grand opening of TARGET, not broadway.. I also stated though he does not use the term regularly there are undertones of it, which is why multiple forumers recognize it. And I don't know what's going on in the land of out of context, but in the land of Los Angeles it just turns out that the place for these businesses actually IS Broadway. Right now, today. You'd have much greater footing if you had made this statement somewhere around 1986 and actually meant it. But I'm willing to bet you weren't staking your interests on Broadway then. Another group, with loud music, did though. Now I'm also not saying I don't want to see the area evolve over time to reflect increased investment and affluence. I'd like to see that. But because I'm as Angelino as it gets, I can say with a 100% certainty that the growing affluence will reflect the region. And that doesn't exactly reflect a lack of brownies, or any other culture for that matter.

I believe he used the term "Westlake," not "brownie." That would've been a little too much.

Today's Broadway is seeing businesses like Figaro Bistro, Umamicatessen, Famima, and now Ross Dress for Less. Ace Hotel, Sparkle Factory (if it ever happens), and possibly Urban Outfitters are to follow. Ross is a major step up from the more traditional wholesale retailers, of which are geared toward a very specific demographic. You're only telling half of the story when you claim that Broadway is this thriving shopping district. The landscape of Downtown is changing, in part due to the new businesses on Broadway.

No, I don't see where you're coming from.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by Easy

The crowd did appear to be a mix of races and ethnicities, but I'm not sure what the economic mix was. Do you think that Ross being on Broadway will tend to make the future opening of stores targeting the middle/upper middle class of any race/ethnicity more likely or less likely? I think that it almost hurts with a discount retail future being more likely. So it may end up being a step up from what's there now, but a step down from what I was anticipating.

I think expecting anything higher end than Ross in 2013 is unrealistic. You have to appeal to the people who are actually there.

[RuFFy]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

I believe he used the term "Westlake," not "brownie." That would've been a little too much.

Today's Broadway is seeing businesses like Figaro Bistro, Umamicatessen, Famima, and now Ross Dress for Less. Ace Hotel, Sparkle Factory (if it ever happens), and possibly Urban Outfitters are to follow. Ross is a major step up from the more traditional wholesale retailers, of which are geared toward a very specific demographic. You're only telling half of the story when you claim that Broadway is this thriving shopping district. The landscape of Downtown is changing, in part due to the new businesses on Broadway.

No, I don't see where you're coming from.

Lol, I digress.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by citywatch

another good thing is ross installed glass sided escalators, which look much, much better....& probably are more $$...than escalators that have solid steel sides. I would guess glass sided escalators also require more maintenance...& therefore $$...to keep them looking clean.

I noticed that when Disney hall was built, for any number of reasons they used steel sided escalators in the lobby, which to my eye look kind of dumpy & old fashioned, & lower budget.

I wonder what the original ceilings were like when the bldg was a woolworths? I notice ross has installed a typical modern type of generic drop ceiling, which are kind of blah & low cost looking to me. But I've been in nordstroms, no less, which also have drop ceilings, although the panels may be a somewhat fancier grade....but they still have that kind of mass produced, commercialized look about them.

I have no inside knowledge, but I doubt that glass is more expensive than stainless steel and it's probably worse for wear over the long term.

As for Disney, I can't say that I noticed, but don't you think that stainless steel matches the outside better than glass?

[Easy]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

I think expecting anything higher end than Ross in 2013 is unrealistic. You have to appeal to the people who are actually there.

I mean later this decade. Will most of the retail stores that open on Broadway over the next few years be discount stores? My guess is yes. A new streetcar will not bring back Broadway without some interesting shops that attract more upscale shoppers.

[Just-In-Cali]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

Sorry, but I don't want to see people on Broadway diving through garbage bins or getting arrested (yes, I have actually seen that happen). I don't know about you, but that's not exactly ideal.

Struck a nerve, it seems.

I fail to see what this ^^^ has to do with what I said. I never mentioned "brownies" (and frankly this term should never be posted again)...nor did I advocate crime and garbage diving as being okay. Apparently one "hyperbolic" rant deserves another.

Re-read my post.

Oh, and this...

"Brownies" themselves aren't the problem. The businesses they own, run, and patron on Broadway are

..reflects badly upon you. I can respect your disagreement with me, but this statement, I cannot. I know you probably aren't racist, but these comments make it hard for you not to appear that way.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Easy

I have no inside knowledge, but I doubt that glass is more expensive than stainless steel and it's probably worse for wear over the long term.

As for Disney, I can't say that I noticed, but don't you think that stainless steel matches the outside better than glass?

you made me curious enough that I browsed through a website of an escalator manufacturer &, yes, it seems it's a matter of design preference & not the cost of the escalator itself. btw, the word I was trying to come up with....for the side of a escalator or stairwell.....is 'balustrade'.

so if price isn't a factor, then a steel balustrade is listed by the manufacturer as being for heavy duty areas, probably cuz, unlike glass, they don't have to be cleaned as much.

discussing the type of escalator used in the new Ross, & what was used for Disney is getting a bit OT however, believe it or not, Disney Hall is nearing its 10th birthday....& so any discussion about how the hood is changing or has changed for the better can use as a line in the sand the completion of that landmark bldg.

I still think the stairwells in Disney would've looked sleeker & more modern if the escalators had glass sides instead of metal....



oursurprisingworld.com


aforeignperspective.wordpress.com


www.flickr.com

this looks more modern or futuristic to me....but all that glass must be a bear to keep clean, or when crews have to be brought in to clean them. take it from someone who has cleaned a few windows & mirrors in my time.


commons.wikimedia.org

I recall taking this exact same walk & thinking the area looked less modern, kind of dark or opaque....or in sharp contrast to the very slick, sleek look of Disney hall's exterior....cuz all the escalators had the same design as older escalators of the past, before glass was ever used....

• Video Link

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by Just-In-Cali

There is a difference between HIS truth and THE truth...but im sure he's happy to have a buddy here defending him.

What is probably the most offensive about these "thoughts" our dear Hunter keeps gracing us with, is that suddenly...the people that have been living in DT for years...well before this forum or any of you who live there now...have no right or purpose being there just because some self important hipsters from the exo burbs that watched one too many episodes of Sex and the City, decide that they are now "urban dynamos" and move to the DT area. Then they basically expect it to be a 50 story version of Downtown Disney.
Downtown didnt just pop up a week before these people deign to move here...it will take time for it to reach this urban ideal (depending on whose ideal your going for).
Ross opening...whether you shop there or not...is a step. A major corporate store opened on Broadway...its a seed. Times square was a dump from the late 60s through the early 90s...and little by little it evolved.
And yes, its not Saks, but lets see...all affluent white suburbs are packed full of Ross', mainly because its a clearing house of overstock from other higher end stores. So yes, middle class customers go there.
But Ruffy hits it on the head. Hunter and a few others here...ahem...simply dont like that its not more people LIKE THEM downtown yet. Until that happens...they will continue to hurl vaguely bigoted commentary on here.
Perhaps they'd be happier in Thousand Oaks...oh...sorry, there is a Ross there...nevermind.

I love how me saying I don't mind his opinions makes me his buddy. Talk about a low bar!

Though I really don't like the idea that wealthier people are taking downtown from the lower class. I mean, before those 'lower class' people set up shop on Broadway, downtown was high-end, and before that, it was a ranchero, and before that, scrubland. My point is it isn't fair to say that downtown belongs to anyone. Really, what should matter is how downtown is being treated in general, and at least from what I have seen, downtown is looking better now then it has for the past fifty years.

Also, concerning retail on Broadway, don't Ace Hotel's have high end retail? Doesn't that mean we are already getting high end retail, and the argument that we aren't is moot?

[Just-In-Cali]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I love how me saying I don't mind his opinions makes me his buddy. Talk about a low bar!

Also, concerning retail on Broadway, don't Ace Hotel's have high end retail? Doesn't that mean we are already getting high end retail, and the argument that we aren't is moot?

LOL, you were kinda gushing about him, but I agree, it was a bit trite to say, I apologize.

As far as the retail coming in on Broadway, it will get there. Corporations take note of sale patterns and potential. If Ross does well, then you may start seeing others middle range stores come in. Slowly the Swapmeet-esque stores will have to move if only for the fact that they cant offer the selections the chains can. It will happen. Its happening now. I just don't get this attitude of some that just because it didn't happen 5 minutes after they showed up, its doomed to be "low class" forever.
Who would have though 7 years ago we'd even be debating this topic in regards to Broadway.