Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 367

MonctonRad · #**7321** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxiK

If AI and automatic translation software will make second language fluency irrelevant in the near future, then why is it so important for Quebec to give so many services in the English language?

Anglos can be Anglos, French can be French, and they can live harmoniously side-by-side. If they need to converse, then just whip out their IPhones to carry on the conversation.

Easy Peasy. No linguistic tensions to worry about.

I agree with you actually.

As long as anglophones are allowed to maintain their institutions in la belle province (schools, churches, cultural institutions, bookstores, mandated bilingual municipalities where numbers warrant). In such an AI scenario then the provincial government itself could be 100% French if it wanted.

Ozabald · #**7322** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxiK

If AI and automatic translation software will make second language fluency irrelevant in the near future, then why is it so important for Quebec to give so many services in the English language?

Anglos can be Anglos, French can be French, and they can live harmoniously side-by-side. If they need to converse, then just whip out their IPhones to carry on the conversation.

Easy Peasy. No linguistic tensions to worry about.

Sure, and Manitoba, Ontario, New Brunswick, PEI can suspend their French language services. To paraphrase:
"If AI and automatic translation software will make second language fluency irrelevant in the near future, then why is it so important for other provinces to give so many services in the French language?" Why would New Brunswick, in particular, need to remain officially bilingual?

lio45 · #**7323** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Joining the United States" means "the USA accepting Nova Scotia". You don't just "join" the US, you have to be accepted. Never gonna happen, especially in the current, dysfunctional climate of US politics.

Maybe as a U.S. Territory that doesn’t have two new Always Blue Senators in DC, it could work.

Acajack · #**7324** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Sure, and Manitoba, Ontario, New Brunswick, PEI can suspend their French language services. To paraphrase:
"If AI and automatic translation software will make second language fluency irrelevant in the near future, then why is it so important for other provinces to give so many services in the French language?" Why would New Brunswick, in particular, need to remain officially bilingual?

New Brunswick would more logically be split up into anglophone and francophone zones.

lio45 · #**7325** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

There are many things you can equip children with, but money is limited, as is time. Why should complete fluency in English for 100% of children be made a priority over some other skills that may be more useful in tomorrow's world? Especially as AI and automated translation will probably make speaking a foreign language rather irrelevant.

I call that "magical thinking". I'm sorry but, for example, seeing schools in the province of Girona bordering France now ditching French language teaching in their high schools and forcing 100% of children to learn English is both retarded and "magical thinking". France was, is, and will be the #1 commercial partner of Catalonia, and employees in Girona are far more likely to meet French speakers than English speakers.

Honestly, looking at my own life “parcours” since university, I would say I wouldn’t be anywhere near where I am, without English fluency.

An interesting aspect of this however is that I would likely be almost in the same place if I hadn’t learned the language of the RoC (with the lone exception of one Vancouver contract that didn’t have any impact on the significant digit of my net worth), my use of English was nearly all as the global lingua franca and language of the economic behemoth next door

ToxiK · #**7326** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Sure, and Manitoba, Ontario, New Brunswick, PEI can suspend their French language services. To paraphrase:
"If AI and automatic translation software will make second language fluency irrelevant in the near future, then why is it so important for other provinces to give so many services in the French language?" Why would New Brunswick, in particular, need to remain officially bilingual?

Except for New Brunswick, if those other provinces suspended their French language services and fired employees providing them, how many people would lose their job? 4?

English services in Québec are first class, French services in the ROC (outside bilingual New Brunswick) are rudimentary.

Acajack · #**7327** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Honestly, looking at my own life “parcours” since university, I would say I wouldn’t be anywhere near where I am, without English fluency.

An interesting aspect of this however is that I would likely be almost in the same place if I hadn’t learned the language of the RoC (with the lone exception of one Vancouver contract that didn’t have any impact on the significant digit of my net worth), my use of English was nearly all as the global lingua franca and language of the economic behemoth next door

Same with me though there wasn't anyone in my situation growing up (francophone at home in my family but growing up in Anglo-Canada) that wasn't going to be bilingual to some degree.

Though I do think that what you end up doing in life is often quite related to the skills you have and the circumstances of your life. You sort of fall into things more or less naturally.

Note that I also know lots of Québécois francophones who are way less proficient in English than I am who are considerably more successful than me.

YMMV. (They probably wouldn't get that reference BTW.)

thebasketballgeek · #**7328** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Except for New Brunswick, if those other provinces suspended their French language services and fired employees providing them, how many people would lose their job? 4?

English services in Québec are first class, French services in the ROC (outside bilingual New Brunswick) are rudimentary.

I don’t think that’s true in the case of Manitoba. When ever I had to use a provincial or customer service over the phone there was a good chance I’d be able to reach a French speaker. Hell a decent chunk of the Red River Métis can still speak French. The predominant area where the Métis live St. Norbert, 25% of the population is bilingual. Of course there’s also the Saint-Boniface neighborhood right across the Red River from Downtown Winnipeg with the largest Francophone University in Western Canada (not a high bar I admit). However, there’s even a specific French school division which is the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine (dsfm). There’s 23 French-only schools with 8 inside Winnipeg that allows 6000 students to do all their studies in French. They’re even expanding with 4 new schools, 2 of which will be in Winnipeg.

That’s not counting the additional 115 schools of French immersion outside the school division, 68 of those are in Winnipeg and 35 of those being single-track which means the entire student population is enrolled in French immersion.

I hate when Québécois think that French is only relevant in Québec and that the rest of the country is bare bones. There are pockets like Manitoba and New Brunswick where French is alive and in some cases thriving. Sure the residents in these provinces still have to speak English in their daily lives, but the opportunity is presented to learn and utilize French in other parts of the country.

Acajack · #**7329** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I don’t think that’s true in the case of Manitoba. When ever I had to use a provincial or customer service over the phone there was a good chance I’d be able to reach a French speaker. .

You actually pressed 2 (or 9) for French service on help lines when you lived in Manitoba to be able to check that?

MonctonRad · #**7330** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I hate when Québécois think that French is only relevant in Québec and that the rest of the country is bare bones. There are pockets like Manitoba and New Brunswick where French is alive and in some cases thriving. Sure the residents in these provinces still have to speak English in their daily lives, but the opportunity is presented to learn and utilize French in other parts of the country.

Quebec based francophones automatically assume that the level of provision of French services hors Quebec is as horrible as the anglophones in la reste de la paye assume English language services are in Quebec (outside Montreal).

A lot of preconceptions here.

Nothing is perfect however.

Ozabald · #**7331** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Except for New Brunswick, if those other provinces suspended their French language services and fired employees providing them, how many people would lose their job? 4?

English services in Québec are first class, French services in the ROC (outside bilingual New Brunswick) are rudimentary.

Wow, such an immature response. That's right, there's only four people in all of Ontario, Manitoba and PEI providing services in French.

I'm sure Susan Starkey of Montreal would agree with your assessment of English services being first class in Quebec. Or how about Elena Montecalvo?

Acajack · #**7332** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I don’t think that’s true in the case of Manitoba. When ever I had to use a provincial or customer service over the phone there was a good chance I’d be able to reach a French speaker. Hell a decent chunk of the Red River Métis can still speak French. The predominant area where the Métis live St. Norbert, 25% of the population is bilingual. Of course there’s also the Saint-Boniface neighborhood right across the Red River from Downtown Winnipeg with the largest Francophone University in Western Canada (not a high bar I admit). However, there’s even a specific French school division which is the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine (dsfm). There’s 23 French-only schools with 8 inside Winnipeg that allows 6000 students to do all their studies in French. They’re even expanding with 4 new schools, 2 of which will be in Winnipeg.

That’s not counting the additional 115 schools of French immersion outside the school division, 68 of those are in Winnipeg and 35 of those being single-track which means the entire student population is enrolled in French immersion.

I hate when Québécois think that French is only relevant in Québec and that the rest of the country is bare bones. There are pockets like Manitoba and New Brunswick where French is alive and in some cases thriving. Sure the residents in these provinces still have to speak English in their daily lives, but the opportunity is presented to learn and utilize French in other parts of the country.

It's true that Québécois francophones can be quite ignorant of the situation in the rest of the country, but many of us commenting on here are quite knowledgeable. I myself lived for 25 years outside Quebec and most of my extended family still does.

Acajack · #**7333** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 5:08 PM**

Still playing the Ozabald game...

Today's news: City of Toronto releases municipal survey in multiple languages, none of which is French.

BTW, I checked the stats and while Toronto is not known for its francophone population, French is the second-most spoken language in the city when you count first and second language speakers. Close to 10% of Torontonians have knowledge of French - enough to have a conversation.

https://onfr.tfo.org/toronto-exclut-le-francais-dun-sondage-multilingue-pour-ses-residents/

YOWetal · #**7334** Posted **Feb 22, 2024, 5:13 PM**

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