Calgary Public Transit II

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by fusili

I don't know. That is less than the cost of a decent hotel, which sometimes is the only option if you are going on a business trip. High speed rail seems to primarily serve business commuters, and $100 per trip is not at all unreasonable for that purpose.

And because of that I think there’s lots of room for student discounts, and weekend discounts, that would allow Chad and his beau to hang out on White Avenue for the day, or check out the museums, or whatever. If I was the operator of this train I think I would offer a deal where every Albertan would get one round trip per year at 50% or maybe even 75% off. This would be a good way to introduce people to the service, and it would allow people who would have difficulty affording it otherwise to go once a year. I’m in danger of wearing out this example, but let’s say you’re a single parent in Calgary. With this discount you could afford to take your kid to Edmonton for the day to see the museums once a year. I think you’d earn a lot of good will this way, and you’d make some money too because most of these people would not have taken the trip at full fare.

[youngregina]

Would there be heightened security like there is for airports? Or are metal detectors, security personnel not as needed with this form of travel?

[Chadillaccc]

Nowhere near the amount of security as in airports. You can't really hijack a train and fly it into a building, or a crowded area. Basically I would imagine they would have the same security measures as any train, which in Canada is basically nill. I don't think even the bullet train in the US Northeast corridor has extra security measures, and that baby goes 240 km/h through an area populated by over 50 million people.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by youngregina

Would there be heightened security like there is for airports? Or are metal detectors, security personnel not as needed with this form of travel?

There is very little in that way on rail travel. In Canada, an RCMP officer or two is usually present at the station. I've also heard that there are sniffer dogs, and randomly assigned x-rays, but I've actually never seen either anytime on a train in Canada. There is no mandatory 'clearing security', nor segregated 'secure areas' like in airports. You walk up and board your train.

At busy stations in the US (ie, Penn Station) there will often be National Guardsman with service rifles patrolling around the concourse, and there will occasionally be Amtrak Police on the trains themselves. But it's generally the same deal: walk up and board your train.

The most security I've seen was at 30th Street Station in Philly. As we walked up to the train, a Amtrak Police officer counted off every 20th person for a random check. They'd look through their bag for 10 seconds, and then let them go.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by youngregina

Would there be heightened security like there is for airports? Or are metal detectors, security personnel not as needed with this form of travel?

At train stations in China they've got X-Ray machines for your bags and you walk through a metal detector as you enter the station, but that's about it. It's much faster to get to the gate for a train than it is for a plane (not to mention the train stations are generally closer to the city centre than the airports are), which is why HSR has taken over a lot of the business for short-medium haul travel in China.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by fusili

I don't know. That is less than the cost of a decent hotel, which sometimes is the only option if you are going on a business trip. High speed rail seems to primarily serve business commuters, and $100 per trip is not at all unreasonable for that purpose.

I think in 2013, $100 trip from Calgary to Edmonton is reasonable even for students. It cost as much to take a crappy via rail from Kingston to Montreal (about the same distance) in 2004. Of course, the government won't put money towards HSR in Alberta until 2055.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

I think in 2013, $100 trip from Calgary to Edmonton is reasonable even for students. It cost as much to take a crappy via rail from Kingston to Montreal (about the same distance) in 2004. Of course, the government won't put money towards HSR in Alberta until 2055.

It only cost me about 50 bucks in 2011 to do that route.

I wish Alberta would get its act together about rail travel. Alberta innovated and is still leading on LRT in North America, it would be nice to leverage that into regional and intercity rail. You couldn't come up with a better pairing of two cities the exact right distance apart to promote rail travel, easy topography to build on and trip profiles that mean everyone is going to the same distance and place. It is a perfect recipe for rail.

Of course, Alberta government may only realize that when Highway 2 is congested at 8 lanes and we ran out of oil revenues in 30 years. It would be nice to get ahead of the curve on this issue.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by youngregina

Would there be heightened security like there is for airports? Or are metal detectors, security personnel not as needed with this form of travel?

My only experience with airport style security for intercity train travel is going through Spain's AVE train stations at Madrid, Barcelona, and Malaga. The imposition of airport style security was due to the March 11, 2004 terrorist attacks at Madrid Atocha where just under 200 people died in multiple explosions timed around train arrivals. In this instance only the HSR trains receive the heighten security treatment. Slower conventional trains have fewer requirements, usually just random bag inspection.

Additionally there is a desk manual "paper tiger" at the US Transportation Security Administration that has full airport style security implementation at major train stations in the USA. The TSA wants to implement this level of security but the US Congress will not fund such an initiative. The paper tiger is shelved until such time as there is major terrorist attack on US soil, the TSA is ready to go with an implementation plan.

At a minimum, and Alberta HSR proposal would have to contemplate airport style preboard screening, likely through placement of access points and taking space and flooring considerations (the metal detectors and xray machines are very heavy and require floor board strengthening).

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by youngregina

Would there be heightened security like there is for airports? Or are metal detectors, security personnel not as needed with this form of travel?

I hope to god not, considering the threat here is provably nil.

I'm sure Harper and company will want to implement it though, because this way we can look as fucking paranoid and stupid as the US.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

I think in 2013, $100 trip from Calgary to Edmonton is reasonable even for students. It cost as much to take a crappy via rail from Kingston to Montreal (about the same distance) in 2004. Of course, the government won't put money towards HSR in Alberta until 2055.

$100 from Kingston to Montreal round trip. He's talking one way for $100, which is certainly not reasonable for students unless they feed off mom and dads credit card.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

$100 from Kingston to Montreal round trip. He's talking one way for $100, which is certainly not reasonable for students unless they feed off mom and dads credit card.

Keep in mind that apart from the potential promotions and weekend discounts there will likely be a tiered fare structure as well, with economy on one end and business class on the other. What’s the fare structure like on the Via train you’re referring to?

[VIce]

Originally Posted by Allan83

Keep in mind that apart from the potential promotions and weekend discounts there will likely be a tiered fare structure as well, with economy on one end and business class on the other. What’s the fare structure like on the Via train you’re referring to?

http://www.viarail.ca/en/fares-and-packages/fare-comparison

For fare comparison, here's a typical Montreal-Toronto train:

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by VIce

http://www.viarail.ca/en/fares-and-packages/fare-comparison

For fare comparison, here's a typical Montreal-Toronto train:

Wow, that’s a big spread. You’d probably see something similar to that on the Edm-Cgy route too. Give a businessman a bit more room and a little table to put his laptop on, so he can work and be productive on the way, and he’s happy to pay a lot more. Then you have a cheap car where you shoehorn people in, but they pay a lot less.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by Allan83

Wow, that’s a big spread. You’d probably see something similar to that on the Edm-Cgy route too. Give a businessman a bit more room and a little table to put his laptop on, so he can work and be productive on the way, and he’s happy to pay a lot more. Then you have a cheap car where you shoehorn people in, but they pay a lot less.

The economy class cars are not exactly cramped. Economy cars have 68 seats, business class has 56. Compared to an airline, the seats were well padded, had a generous pitch, and there are outlets at every seat. The folding tables were enough for me to get a lot of work done on my laptop.

What you pay for in business class is priority boarding, lounge access, and a meal (wine included) during your trip, rather than productivity time (which everybody gets).

Economy car
Business car

[freeweed]

Yeah, the difference in higher classes on rail isn't usually big in the physical layout. It's the "extras".

I splurged for 1st class tickets on Eurostar once. Almost the same seats - but boy did they treat us well. Highly recommended, if you can get it for a few pounds.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

130 minutes travel time would be exquisite- why do you (YNAT) dismiss it? Why would 60 minutes be so important? As long as it's faster (a lot faster actually) than driving with zero attendant parking headaches it'd be magnificent/

but it only currently takes 90 minutes.

oops ... did I just say that?

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Yeah, the difference in higher classes on rail isn't usually big in the physical layout. It's the "extras".

I splurged for 1st class tickets on Eurostar once. Almost the same seats - but boy did they treat us well. Highly recommended, if you can get it for a few pounds.

First Class on DB adds nothing but elbow room. Maybe a free chocolate bar. I still take it but it's not luxury. Now the train experience- oh my God it's a delight, on ICE or IC or EC. Or RB for that matter. Or, fuck, the S-Bahn. I honestly travel in Germany as an excuse to take trains everywhere.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

He's talking one way for $100, which is certainly not reasonable for students unless they feed off mom and dads credit card.

Welcome to Alberta. That's how we do things here so this wouldn't be a big issue.

[Chadillaccc]

Ugh, that is a depressing reality if that is the case. An entire province of kids/young adults who don't know the value of working for what they have/get? *shudder*

Originally Posted by Allan83

Wow, that’s a big spread. You’d probably see something similar to that on the Edm-Cgy route too. Give a businessman a bit more room and a little table to put his laptop on, so he can work and be productive on the way, and he’s happy to pay a lot more. Then you have a cheap car where you shoehorn people in, but they pay a lot less.

They don't really shoehorn anyone in. The seats between the classes are virtually identical, except the economy seats are a green-blue colour and the seats in first class are maroon. The only thing that's different that I noticed about first class on Via is the free wine and the fact that they didn't ID me when I was 17. Got hammered on my way home from Toronto. I may have gotten free food too I think.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Ugh, that is a depressing reality if that is the case. An entire province of kids/young adults who don't know the value of working for what they have/get? *shudder*

Yep, I'm surrounded by them and envy not having that luxary.