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Originally Posted by queetz@home
Not directed specifically to VancouverOfTheFuture but can someone explain to me why people are so possessive on the 2 lanes that would be lost if the Broadway Extension was elevated?
There will be a very fast train there, so for most people going to the area for whatever reason, you won't need to bring your car. Just hop into Skytrain and there you go. If you do need (or more accurately, want) to use a car, just use the remaining lanes or even parallel streets like 10th.
I've always supported a Skytrain extension to Broadway as long as it is SKY-Train....a train high up in the sky. People already pointed out why tunneling is not feasible, why its prohibitively expensive and why its very disruptive. You don't need to tunnel under Broadway, elevated will do nicely. An elevated train does not make a city ugly, it actually enhances its beauty. Just look at all those sci fi shows that show cities of the future, and they often feature an elevated train. Even the beauty shots of Vancouver often feature the elevated Skytrain.
So just elevate the Broadway Extension. Its easier, cheaper, less disruptive and better for everyone!
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i don't think you've thought out the consequences completely of a shut down of 2 lanes. so lets say there is a median down the middle, and 2 lanes of traffic on either side.
Buses - okay, so you have buses going down Broadway. which means bus stops every block. sure, it isn't an end-all, but it is still a factor. just because a train is built, not everyone will use it. sure it will remove cars, but Broadway is way over capacity as it is. even with a lot of cars removed, there would still be a ton. i don't understand this mentality people have here of
"the cars will disappear!!!!!" no, they wont. some will, but as has been shown, even with Sky-Train there is still a ton of traffic on Cambie WITH Canada-Line UNDER that street. specifically looking at King-Edward North since that is similar to Broadway.
Parking - you couldn't have parking on Broadway anymore, 24/7 it would need to be a no stopping zone. there is not enough off-street parking along Broadway during the daytime. they fill up pretty good. parking on Broadway, as it is now, is pretty full throughout the day as well. if you did allow parking, that means the street would be 1 lane in each direction. that would NOT be feasible at all.
Trucks, Cars - so, you either are left with a 2 lane street that allows no stopping, or a 1 lane street with parking. we in the real world realise that yes, transit will certainly help, but it will not get rid of enough cars to make a 2 lane street realistic. where as if it stays 6 lanes, we keep parking, and we also have a lot less gridlock. and i am sure i don't need to tell you that idling cars pollute A LOT more then moving cars. it also gives the option to keep no stopping zones during rush-hour and IMPROVING traffic flow. why is everyone here against improving traffic flow?????? that means less time idling, less pollution, less stress, a faster commute home, less adverse health effects.
The Guide-Way - assuming it goes down the centre of the road, in a median, you are talking only about 10m from either side of buildings along Broadway. you are talking commercial offices, Drs offices, housing, etc. if it is on one side, then you are talking right on the windows. Chicago EL anyone?
Construction - you really think building a station above ground will be LESS disruptive? no, it wont be, not enough to be material anyways. there is no room for staging other than on the physical road space, buildings have no set backs. with boring, you only need to deal with the stations. and there are ways to dig down, and cover the hole so that vehicles can still drive over the hole while they do their work underneath. wouldn't be the first time that is used, and wont be the last I'm sure.
Other Streets - where else could the cars go? 4th is too busy, 12th is too busy, 16th isn't all that big of a street. 10th is for bikes and the CoV is making it that way on purpose, they are discouraging cars on it. that is a trend that will continue. it is the busiest E/W route in the city for bikes. also, 10th is ALREADY a mess as it is.
The View - what view? you mean those tiny little slivers as you pass over the N/S streets? in that
"very fast train," how much of a view will you get over those streets? 1.0 second? 0.75 seconds? other then that, you'd be staring into the buildings that i mentioned above in "The Guide-Way." windows upon more windows of all kinds of offices and housing.
Sci-fi Reasons - seriously??? "hey lets do what Hollywood does because that's realistic right?"
why do we even bother having people in the planning field? we can just go by what Hollywood does since if it is good for them, it is good for us.
"It's Easier" (this one will sound like a bit of a preach, be forewarned) - the worst reason of them all i think. it screams of mediocrity and shortsightedness. that is like the Canada-Line. it was easier to build short stations, single tracking, and omitting stations for the future. and look at that, it'll bite us in the ass later. building it underground, that is forward thinking. that is saying, "Broadway might be changing in the future, at some point, lets not hinder its prospects because it is easier, lets do what is harder, but the right choice."
doing what is "easy" is not how we become better. if we did what you said, and did what was "easier," we wouldn't have even half of what Western Society has built. we wouldn't have skyscrapers, air planes, we wouldn't have landed on the moon. we don't get better by doing easy things, we become stagnant.
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sounds like Jordan Bateman, make a huge deal how "all this is bad, all that is bad"
when it is all just nonsense. as mentioned above, Broadway is a very narrow street, there is NO room for it to be above ground. you would need to remove 2 lanes of traffic, that means 24/7 no stopping on Broadway, not just rush hours. station construction would be just as disruptive since there is no room to move traffic around the building of said stations. the difference is you can cover a hole and allow vehicles to drive over the excavation.
Take the L Train ..... la la la (?)
horrible. Others will call for it, I know. They want to see the pretty view - and cut costs, of course. But this ain't Chicago, and is much smaller and aesthetically much more fragile. 
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