Sports in Canadian culture

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Are you thinking of Don Beebee who played for the Buffalo Bills at one time?

Lol. My bad. I meant Don Blair. I remember he went to NFL training camps but ended up in the CFL.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

MB is a bit of a dead zone for university sports. Unless there is something really epic going on like the UWinnipeg Wesmen women's basketball team winning 88 in a row as they did in the early 90s, or if the UManitoba Bisons make it to the Vanier Cup, no one really pays attention to them. Which is remarkable partly because the Wesmen and the Bisons are the highest level basketball teams in town, so you'd think they'd have at least that part of the market cornered.

The funny thing is that the university teams get a decent amount of press coverage, but that doesn't translate into attendance or fan interest. Unlike in Quebec, there is no RDS equivalent regional sports channel that would expose the casual fan to university sports... you're either one of the 300 hard core uber fans paying $10 a month for the streaming service, or you aren't paying attention at all... there's really no in between.

I have to admit I haven't done much to help the cause... since I earned my final degree over a decade ago, I have attended a grand total of one Bisons football game. Although my son is interested in going to watch a Bisons basketball game, so maybe I'll go to one of those this winter.

I was at Brandon University during the heydays of the Bobcats. Gym was always full, game-day was an event and the local paper and TV (CKX) gave full coverage.

All I know now is that its a chore to follow USports these days. Sure SN shows the bowl games for football and the finals of B-ball but they never show regular season games so you have no clue who these guys and gals are when they are finally shown.

Then there is the camera angles for the Rams games in Regina and the Dino's games in Calgary for example. They always show the visitor side where nobody is sitting behind the bench so if you are watching the game on the tube it seems there is no atmosphere at the game. Meanwhile there is quite a crowd behind the home team but you wouldn't know it. The lack of energy kills the casual fan and at the same time TSN is showing NCAA College Football with the stadiums full of screaming students and alumni.
Chicken and egg thing I know but you'd think the CBC (who do show olympic trials, pro soccer and pro basketball) would at least have showing USports as part of their mandate for promoting all things Canadian.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by megadude

Question, does anyone here or do you know anyone who follows CIS football? I actually used to follow it in my teen years and could name a handful of QBs and RBs and slot receivers like Don Beebee. I went to three Vanier Cups in a row at the Dome. I seem to recall them being won by U of T, UWO and U of C.

That Ottawa game looks like fun. I do wonder how many of those people actually follow their team. Anyway, I don't fault anyone for joining in on the festivities even if they don't follow the team like for so many Raps fans at viewing parties. I welcome the enthusiasm.

I used to go to a lot of college football and college basketball games when I lived in Nova Scotia but I don't go much now that I live in Toronto. It's a little difficult when everyone around you seems oblivious to collegiate sports and/or completely disinterested. Some people in Toronto seem interested in it but only if it's NCAA. They'll get very excited if it's Syracuse but puzzled as to why you'd go if it's Western. When teams from the Maritimes play exhibition games in Toronto I usually try and go. If it's my alma mater I'm always there.

I probably watched 200 college basketball games in person before I saw my very first Raptors game on tv. I'm now a big Raptors fan but still prefer college basketball. For football I now prefer the CFL although it's likely because I've been out for the college football loop for such a long time. I'll be heading to Hamilton to tailgate in a couple weeks. Can't wait.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

How many hundreds are at that game?

Probably in the single digits.

The University of Toronto football team had higher average attendance than the NFL (not a typo) at one point but interest in college football fell off a cliff. Stateside, it just grew and grew. It's odd how places right next to each other can follow such different paths. It's kind of sad to think of what could have been.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

Unlike in Quebec, there is no RDS equivalent regional sports channel that would expose the casual fan to university sports... you're either one of the 300 hard core uber fans paying $10 a month for the streaming service, or you aren't paying attention at all... there's really no in between.

In Nova Scotia it was the regional affiliates of CBC, CTV, and Global that shone the spotlight on the college football/basketball games. Students would get introduced to it in their very first week at university. There would usually be some event the majority of new students would attend and it would be at a football or basketball game. A few weeks later it would be followed up by Homecoming.

A lot of it is fuelled by fraternities, sororities, and other university clubs/organizations. They'd largely be excuses to party/drink but they had the added effect of familiarizing students with their teams ... if they weren't already.

Personally, having watched coverage of college football/basketball on local tv I was already primed for it by the time I went to university. I'd never been in person at that point but was very eager to get my feet wet. Most stop going after the first 1-2 games but a sizeable number continue to follow the school football and/or basketball team throughout their time in university. Fort some (like myself) they never stop following these teams. Does this not happen in Manitoba?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Personally, having watched coverage of college football/basketball on local tv I was already primed for it by the time I went to university. I'd never been in person at that point but was very eager to get my feet wet. Most stop going after the first 1-2 times but a sizeable number continue to follow the school football and/or basketball team throughout their time in university. Fort some (like myself) they never stop following these teams. Does this not happen in Manitoba?

Not really, I'm a U of M graduate and I can't think of a single one of my old friends who really follows the teams. Maybe one guy, but that's because he's involved in high school football and some of the alumni are on the Bisons football team.

I am really at a loss as to why it is such a hard sell. Case in point, when the WHL set up shop in the U of M arena, people referred to them as the third team in town as though the Bisons didn't exist. But I do recall from my University of Alberta days, where the hockey team had a bit of a cult following, that the quality of hockey was pretty good as most of the players had WHL experience.

Also, to vanriderfan's point, I recall the Brandon Bobcats' heyday, but things have calmed down quite a bit since Jerry Hemmings was running that crazy powerhouse team. From what I gather the Bobcats still have a bit of a following, but I'm not sure that they're the marquee attraction in Brandon that they once were.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

Also, to vanriderfan's point, I recall the Brandon Bobcats' heyday, but things have calmed down quite a bit since Jerry Hemmings was running that crazy powerhouse team. From what I gather the Bobcats still have a bit of a following, but I'm not sure that they're the marquee attraction in Brandon that they once were.

Wheat Kings are the kings of the region. The Bobcats were a nice distraction from a poor WK team at the time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

CTV Sportsnet (as it then was) was supposed to fill that role to some extent, but the CRTC let them get away with doing whatever they wanted. Same with TSN where AFAIK only in-market NHL games constitute "regional content".

Unlike the US, we don't really have the regional sports channels to complement the national channels (like the FSNs alongside ESPN)… RDS is really the only exception to that, mainly as a byproduct of the language barrier as you point out.

.

I was thinking and CP24 News in the GTA is basically a regional news channel in theory one level "below" CTV and CBC's national all-news channels.

It's one of the only examples I can think of in Canada. Perhaps there is one in the Vancouver area that I am unaware of? But I don't believe there is.

Looking at the U.S. in terms of regional sports networks there are tons of them all over the place, including in markets that aren't really much bigger than the six or seven biggest metros in Canada and their hinterlands.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by esquire

I am really at a loss as to why it is such a hard sell. Case in point, when the WHL set up shop in the U of M arena, people referred to them as the third team in town as though the Bisons didn't exist. But I do recall from my University of Alberta days, where the hockey team had a bit of a cult following, that the quality of hockey was pretty good as most of the players had WHL experience.

University hockey is a much harder sell than football or basketball due to the natural development progression. The NHL presents the fastest path to signing a contract of all four major leagues, and as such, 16 year old players are preparing for their draft while football players haven't even though about what university they're going to yet.

In my experience, the stereotypical CIS hockey player is a guy who's probably 2-3 years older than everyone else in his year having already taken his shot in the CHL. They realize they're probably never going pro and take the free ride at university to start a different career. Not that the quality of hockey can't be good, but there isn't that same excitement watching someone fizzle out at the end of their playing days compared to watching a star athlete begin their career. My school wasn't particularly big into football, but there were 3 guys in my year who went top 15 in the CFL draft and everyone knew them but definitely couldn't name anyone on the hockey team.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was thinking and CP24 News in the GTA is basically a regional news channel in theory one level "below" CTV and CBC's national all-news channels.

It's one of the only examples I can think of in Canada. Perhaps there is one in the Vancouver area that I am unaware of? But I don't believe there is.

Looking at the U.S. in terms of regional sports networks there are tons of them all over the place, including in markets that aren't really much bigger than the six or seven biggest metros in Canada and their hinterlands.

Yeah, there isn't much. Vancouver area has BC1 which is similar to CP24, but beyond that it's slim pickings.

At one point the various affiliated stations across the country did a decent amount of local programming and the public access channels did too (I recall in Winnipeg they used to televise local amateur sports). But that's pretty well gone now... in Manitoba, there is virtually nothing produced locally anymore except for news and news-type talk shows.

Given that we've gone 35 years without any bona fide regional sports channels in Canada, I'm not expecting this to change anytime soon, particularly now that streaming of sports events is taking on prominence.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not really, I'm a U of M graduate and I can't think of a single one of my old friends who really follows the teams. Maybe one guy, but that's because he's involved in high school football and some of the alumni are on the Bisons football team.

I am really at a loss as to why it is such a hard sell. Case in point, when the WHL set up shop in the U of M arena, people referred to them as the third team in town as though the Bisons didn't exist. But I do recall from my University of Alberta days, where the hockey team had a bit of a cult following, that the quality of hockey was pretty good as most of the players had WHL experience.

Also, to vanriderfan's point, I recall the Brandon Bobcats' heyday, but things have calmed down quite a bit since Jerry Hemmings was running that crazy powerhouse team. From what I gather the Bobcats still have a bit of a following, but I'm not sure that they're the marquee attraction in Brandon that they once were.

Like yourself, it's always puzzled me why Canadians have such a blind spot for their local university sports teams. Even when they do acknowledge them the reaction is usually very negative. The talent level is lower than what you see in the NCAA but it's not the giant gulf people think it is. In hockey our teams are comparable, in basketball we're weaker but still very good, while in football the gap is wider but it's still an entertaining product. It's also the best bang for your buck by a long shot.

Judging by what you've said, university sports was a much bigger deal in NS than MB although locals tell me NS college football/basketball has declined substantially over the last 20 years. The key is introduction of new students in the first few weeks of university followed up by 1-2 more games before XMas. If a school doesn't have a strong network of fraternities, sororities, bands, cheerleading, organizations, etc. it makes all this hard to pull off imo. It's these things that fuel the whole thing on campus. After that you need decent coverage by your local media to keep collegiate sports on people's radar.

University football/basketball wasn't a hard sell at all when I was at school. It felt like you could go up to anyone on campus and they'd, at the very least, know that a big game was coming up and/or knew people who were going. At tiny Mt. Allison University in NB they'd actually get more people to some football games than went to that school. That's something you usually only see in the US.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by isaidso

.

Judging by what you've said, university sports was a much bigger deal in NS when I lived there although locals now tell me it's declined substantially over the last 20 years. The key is introduction of new students in the first few weeks of university followed up by 1-2 more games before XMas. If a school doesn't have a strong network of fraternities, sororities, bands, cheerleading, organizations, etc. it makes all this hard to pull off imo. It's these things that fuel the whole thing on campus. After that you need decent coverage by your local media to keep collegiate sports on people's radar.

There could be an argument that these elements of campus/university lifestyle have changed dramatically even without respect to sports. Rising costs of education and the availability of online classes mean that more people avoid the campus altogether and either commute in from their parents place, work part-time while taking night classes, etc. Hard to build that energy and excitement around communal activities when the school is purely a place to take classes.

I've visited a fair number of schools across Canada and the U.S. visiting friends during university and I also find American schools provide much better opportunities to live on or near campus throughout undergrad. In Ontario, students often relocate much further from campus after first year, and this again helps to fuel a disconnect from the campus community and activities.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, I think you may have nailed a major reason for the lack of enthusiasm on the prairies. The campus culture is somewhat weak, the universities are mostly commuter campuses where people attend classes and then go back to their suburban homes. When I was at UM there were only a handful of residences that were occupied mainly by students from rural Manitoba. It was pretty sad compared to what you'd see out east.

Things have changed and there are more residences on the campus than before, with more development planned. That could have an impact... or then again, maybe not. I think UBC is probably closer to the eastern model than what we have on the prairies, and I don't think anyone really pays attention to the Thunderbirds.

In Winnipeg at least, it is probably tough for the hockey and football teams to break through the constant media glare on the pro teams, but you would at least think that the basketball teams at UM/UW could generate a following since if you want to see live basketball, it's the biggest show in town. I'll do my part and take my kid to a Bison hoops game this season... that will be my first since I saw a Wesmen basketball game some 10 or so years ago.

[Acajack]

When you think about it though, spectator sports associated with educational institutions (either high school or university) are really only a big deal in the U.S. and a bit of a "deal" in Canada.

In most of the world you don't have the rah-rah-rah "be true to your school" thing much at all.

It's even very rare to see people with hoodies, t-shirts or jackets with the name of their school/college/university on it anywhere but USA/Canada.

[MonctonRad]

Anyone paying any attention to the Expos (I mean the Nationals) in the World Series?

How do the Montrealais feel about this???

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When you think about it though, spectator sports associated with educational institutions (either high school or university) are really only a big deal in the U.S. and a bit of a "deal" in Canada.

In most of the world you don't have the rah-rah-rah "be true to your school" thing much at all.

It's even very rare to see people with hoodies, t-shirts or jackets with the name of their school/college/university on it anywhere but USA/Canada.

Yeah, fair comment. The US maybe takes it too far with the big D1 programs that make piles of money on the backs of unpaid student athletes, but IMO it would be a fun thing if we bought into it a little more than we do... maybe something on the junior hockey level of fan support, as compared to the near total obscurity that most U Sports athletes toil in.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Anyone paying any attention to the Expos (I mean the Nationals) in the World Series?

How do the Montrealais feel about this???

From what I've seen on RDS and TVA Sports there isn't really any more interest than if it was Kansas City vs. Cincinnati.

I knew the Nationals were in the playoffs (just as I knew the Astros, Braves, Yankees, Cards, etc. were from seeing them on big screens in bars) but until now did not know who was in the World Series.

I still have no idea off the top of my head who the Nationals are playing.

[esquire]

^ It's been so long I can't imagine that the folks in Montreal pay much attention to the Nationals. I mean, it's one thing when the team makes the finals the year after leaving town the way the Avalanche did in 1996, but in this case the faces have all changed and the memories are fairly distant. Had the Coyotes made the Stanley Cup finals in, say, 2010, I doubt anyone in Winnipeg would have really given a crap.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, fair comment. The US maybe takes it too far with the big D1 programs that make piles of money on the backs of unpaid student athletes, but IMO it would be a fun thing if we bought into it a little more than we do... maybe something on the junior hockey level of fan support, as compared to the near total obscurity that most U Sports athletes toil in.

Yeah, I obviously don't find it to be a negative either. I do appreciate the collective buzz that widely-followed spectator sports can bring. And I've often mentioned that Canada tends to be somewhat lacking in this department. Though not everyone agrees with me, I know.

As for the U.S. they are in a class by themselves compared to everyone else on the planet when it comes to this stuff.

I've often mentioned that it would be nice (though perhaps even this is unrealistic) if Canada were perhaps on the level of a country like Australia.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

University hockey is a much harder sell than football or basketball due to the natural development progression. The NHL presents the fastest path to signing a contract of all four major leagues, and as such, 16 year old players are preparing for their draft while football players haven't even though about what university they're going to yet.

In my experience, the stereotypical CIS hockey player is a guy who's probably 2-3 years older than everyone else in his year having already taken his shot in the CHL. They realize they're probably never going pro and take the free ride at university to start a different career. Not that the quality of hockey can't be good, but there isn't that same excitement watching someone fizzle out at the end of their playing days compared to watching a star athlete begin their career. My school wasn't particularly big into football, but there were 3 guys in my year who went top 15 in the CFL draft and everyone knew them but definitely couldn't name anyone on the hockey team.

Having collegiate sports as the stepping stone to pro sports is a part of the reason why the NCAA is so popular but I'm always surprised when people say it's a make or break factor in whether they will watch.

When I watch say a MAC football game or Ryerson basketball game it would be nice if they had future CFLers or NBAers on those squads but it doesn't weigh heavily on whether I will attend or follow it. Am I really that outside the norm on this issue?