Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by Wpgstvsouth94

I find it hilarious how he’s using a bunch of videos of the 401 and a freeway in general.

I hate how every traffic convo uses 401 as an example that "more lanes don't work". Major false equivalence.

Toronto is built in a line. Not a circle, square, hexagon, etc. It's a single line along Lake Ontario, stretching over 110km. Therefore any traffic going anywhere, must use the 1 or 2 cross-town arteries to get anywhere. This creates a giant bottleneck on those 2 routes. That is where 401 congestion comes from. Those 2 roads must handle 4 million people worth of traffic. Whereas a round city with ring roads and cross-pattern traffic can handle much more overall traffic. Since there may be 5 different ways to get to a destination. Dispersing traffic must more evenly.

So Toronto isn't an example that more lanes don't work. More lanes absolutely do work, to an extent. It's Toronto's very unique line-design flaw that creates the issue, not lanes. The only other major "line-style city" off the top of my head is Miami, and what do you know? Miami also has some of the widest freeways in North America. For the same reason: Line-design.

(Not attacking you Steve, it's just a common myth that needed busting.)

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

I hate how every traffic convo uses 401 as an example that "more lanes don't work". Major false equivalence.

Toronto is built in a line. Not a circle, square, hexagon, etc. It's a single line along Lake Ontario, stretching over 110km. Therefore any traffic going anywhere, must use the 1 or 2 cross-town arteries to get anywhere. This creates a giant bottleneck on those 2 routes. That is where 401 congestion comes from. Those 2 roads must handle 4 million people worth of traffic. Whereas a round city with ring roads and cross-pattern traffic can handle much more overall traffic. Since there may be 5 different ways to get to a destination. Dispersing traffic must more evenly.

So Toronto isn't an example that more lanes don't work. More lanes absolutely do work, to an extent. It's Toronto's very unique line-design flaw that creates the issue, not lanes. The only other major "line-style city" off the top of my head is Miami, and what do you know? Miami also has some of the widest freeways in North America. For the same reason: Line-design.

(Not attacking you Steve, it's just a common myth that needed busting.)

Route 90 itself is a line...

It's a squiggly line, but a line nonetheless.

[TimeFadesAway]

I still don't understand why adding a lane for 8 blocks costs around $180 million when Ontario is able to twin the TCH for 6.5 km for $32 million.

[Hecate]

Our st Mary’s interchange is costing us what? 135 million

They’re doing this in Minnesota for less than 30 million.
https://krocnews.com/i-90-highway-52...ion-minnesota/

It’s corruption.

We could literally hire Americans to build our infrastructure for less.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Our st Mary’s interchange is costing us what? 135 million

They’re doing this in Minnesota for less than 30 million.
https://krocnews.com/i-90-highway-52...ion-minnesota/

It’s corruption.

We could literally hire Americans to build our infrastructure for less.

You have a point.

In the 1960s IIRC, the province hired mainly Dutch engineers to build the Floodway, and it's probably paid for itself 25 times over. If companies can do highway projects better, and for less money than Canadian companies, I would not be opposed to it.

[bomberjet]

This is what they're doing for $27.5 million USD.

St. mary's includes large streches of highway reconstruction and side roads. That's why these projects cost so much.

I've been saying for years (decades?) that the province can just add the bridges and ramps and it would cost a lot less. but they do full highway reconstruction and grade widening too.

[anthonyk]

Draft of 2050 Transportation Plan posted online.

Transportation 2050

[bomberjet]

Pretty bleak. Most everything is needs uncertain or beyond 2050, save for the recent projects we've been discussing.

Lagimodiere north of Reenders beyond 2050. Lag elsewhere non-existent upgrades. Roundabouts it is according to this forum...

There's also a lot of info for cycling network. Loving some of those ideas. Just need funding.

[bodaggin]

This is the best I can come up with for Route 90/Academy/St James/Portage. It's facking hard.

What it solves:
⬆️ Removed both Academy lights. Free flowing in all important directions, eliminating bottleneck points.
⬆️ Removed St James light entirely. Long free flowing East/West Portage.
⏩ Early Portage WB to Route 90 SB overfly (dual lane) gives express access for WB Portage to SB Route 90 traffic. Previously had 3 stops. Now 0.
⏩ Direct St James AND Polo Park connections to SB Route 90. Relieves Ness @ Route 90 congestion upstream. Helping larger congestion picture.
⤴️ Free flowing St James SB to Portage EB solved. Heavy traffic uses this.
↪️ R-Cut allows local and existing traffic to access Polo and St James NB
⬆️ Pedestrian overpass for Polo bus stop removes another light.


Problems:
-Lots of bridges ($$)
-Some expropriation
-Location of existing bridges would cause insane construction traffic delays + challenges.

[borkborkbork]

It looks like we're starting to see a bunch of construction starting on the Main/Assiniboine/Mayfair/Stradbrook stretch. Is this just resurfacing, or are they actually starting on the Stradbrook Station plan?

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

It looks like we're starting to see a bunch of construction starting on the Main/Assiniboine/Mayfair/Stradbrook stretch. Is this just resurfacing, or are they actually starting on the Stradbrook Station plan?

Don't remind us lol, this ain't getting built any time soon. I don't think it's funded.

[bomberjet]

Most definitely not anything related to the downtown transit corridor.

Preliminary design is expected to run in the 2025-2026 timeframe. Then funding. Maybe by 2030 they'll be underway.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

This is the best I can come up with for Route 90/Academy/St James/Portage. It's facking hard.

What it solves:
⬆️ Removed both Academy lights. Free flowing in all important directions, eliminating bottleneck points.
⬆️ Removed St James light entirely. Long free flowing East/West Portage.
⏩ Early Portage WB to Route 90 SB overfly (dual lane) gives express access for WB Portage to SB Route 90 traffic. Previously had 3 stops. Now 0.
⏩ Direct St James AND Polo Park connections to SB Route 90. Relieves Ness @ Route 90 congestion upstream. Helping larger congestion picture.
⤴️ Free flowing St James SB to Portage EB solved. Heavy traffic uses this.
↪️ R-Cut allows local and existing traffic to access Polo and St James NB
⬆️ Pedestrian overpass for Polo bus stop removes another light.


Problems:
-Lots of bridges ($$)
-Some expropriation
-Location of existing bridges would cause insane construction traffic delays + challenges.

People on Academy can sit at traffic lights that is totally ok. That said, this is what I would propose. It would avoid having to make a mess on the north side of the river, which could be addressed at a future date.



I prefer to use roundabouts to keep traffic moving on Academy, which runs overtop of a Kenaston which continues to dip down into a trench after the bridge. This keeps the neighbourhood disruption at a minimum in terms of continuity and flow.

A version could be made that gives northbound Kenaston access directly to Academy, but I think it would make sense for that to come from either Corydon or Grant.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Don't remind us lol, this ain't getting built any time soon. I don't think it's funded.

Concrete repairs on both bridges and bike lanes on River Avenue.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

this is what I would propose. It would avoid having to make a mess on the north side of the river, which could be addressed at a future date.

Ya I'm good with the Academy side. Free flowing. Good. Since Route 90 is already elevated, I'd just run Academy dumbells UNDER Route 90, for simpler construction. Semantics tho. Otherwise agree.

But Route 90 under Portage is the actual pinch point.

I've highlighted the common area clog points in red to visualize. I get why the CoW designers deleted the clover ramp from Portage to Rt 90 SB, because it all funneled into those 3 lanes under Portage. Jamming up all directions at bridge. Solving this by widening Portage bridge would be an expensive mess, so I agree not doing this. But their solution just pushes the clog further upstream on Portage, St James, and even Route 90. Creating more issues. It also exacerbates the St James SB to Portage EB clog which commonly piles up also. It doesn't alleviate Ness's clog either. Direct connecting St James south to Rt 90 solves all these problems.

I think north-side needs to be dealt with. Otherwise it'll be another expensive half-assed solution not solving much. Not easy though, open to other North ideas.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Pretty bleak. Most everything is needs uncertain or beyond 2050, save for the recent projects we've been discussing.

Lagimodiere north of Reenders beyond 2050. Lag elsewhere non-existent upgrades. Roundabouts it is according to this forum...

You have a point. I don't believe 59 from the Perimeter North till Reendeers would need upgrades anytime soon. Upgrades would make sense at Regent, Dugald, etc.

I think Dugald Road and Marion street need to be rebuilt to connect with each other. That would require one less intersection on Lag

[biguc]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

People on Academy can sit at traffic lights that is totally ok. That said, this is what I would propose. It would avoid having to make a mess on the north side of the river, which could be addressed at a future date.



I prefer to use roundabouts to keep traffic moving on Academy, which runs overtop of a Kenaston which continues to dip down into a trench after the bridge. This keeps the neighbourhood disruption at a minimum in terms of continuity and flow.

A version could be made that gives northbound Kenaston access directly to Academy, but I think it would make sense for that to come from either Corydon or Grant.

There's an intractable problem underlying what you and bodaggin are trying to solve: Academy and Portage are less than 600 m apart. That's just too damn close.

I've talked about this before, but the Kenaston bridge is an overbuilt local connector. It might look like it's part of a freeway, but we all know it's not built for high-speed traffic. Look at those dangerous on ramps... the non-existent merge lanes.

It's just not a freeway. It'll never work as a freeway as long as you're trying to accommodate both Portage and Academy.

So don't. Viaduct the damn bridge over Academy and build a modest local bridge connecting Academy to St. James street.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by biguc

There's an intractable problem underlying what you and bodaggin are trying to solve: Academy and Portage are less than 600 m apart. That's just too damn close.

I've talked about this before, but the Kenaston bridge is an overbuilt local connector. It might look like it's part of a freeway, but we all know it's not built for high-speed traffic. Look at those dangerous on ramps... the non-existent merge lanes.

It's just not a freeway. It'll never work as a freeway as long as you're trying to accommodate both Portage and Academy.

So don't. Viaduct the damn bridge over Academy and build a modest local bridge connecting Academy to St. James street.

I am fine with that too. Then you could just basically consolidate the access in the area to Corydon and Grant, some sort of joint compact diamond interchange. Done. Taylor, Academy, and Tuxedo lose access or go over/under but don't connect. All the residential streets dead end already (just about, finish the job).

[bodaggin]

Good points Optimus and Biguc. Here's another idea similar to a local St James connection, using the brand new Empress bridge that no one uses anyways. Gives a "drain-point" almost 1km closer to downtown for evening WB traffic (reducing Polo/Portage clutter). Might be able to squeeze 2 full lanes too.... Hmmm...

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by biguc

I've talked about this before, but the Kenaston bridge is an overbuilt local connector. It might look like it's part of a freeway, but we all know it's not built for high-speed traffic. Look at those dangerous on ramps... the non-existent merge lanes.

It's just not a freeway. It'll never work as a freeway as long as you're trying to accommodate both Portage and Academy.

Strange, I used the semi-cloverleaf to get to Kenaston southbound from Portage westbound a few days ago for the first time in ages. I recall saying to myself, that that merge lane was the worst of it's kind I can recall driving on. I would not be surprised if people have been in bad accidents trying to merge on to Kenaston.