Phoenix Development News (3)

[downtownphxguy12]

there was a piece of demo equipment on the alta filmore site today. hopefully they will start demoing the old school, soon

also, new site work started at 7th st and Roosevelt where new circle k is supposed to go. pulling up old foundations

also, there were some surveyors a couple weeks ago working at the crappy cold storage bldg. on the SE corner of McKinley and 7th ave. maybe someone is doing due diligence to purchase ( I hope so).

[Jjs5056]

Obadno - I have mentioned the 4th/McKinley project in nearly every one of my posts, praised the design, and provided renderings.

It received a lot of publicity when it was first announced, as it forced the businesses out of the SoRo Galleries building. However, as I have said before, it's an example of how a project can still be a net positive for the neighborhood in spite of demolition. It replaces the retail lost through 10 live/work units - live/work units are nearly 100% occupied in downtown currently. It uses the alleyway to access parking, reducing the amount of curb-cuts. It has pretty good height and density for the area. And, it establishes a real sense of an urban neighborhood by connecting Roosevelt Point with Skyline Lofts.

I have long said that this is my favorite project after Portland on the Park. That area of McKinley is going to be pretty awesome with the live/work spaces on 4th Street, Milk Bar and Songbird on 3rd Street, Moira Sushi and the new Cobra Arcade Bar/Sugar Antiques/Architecture Firm building on 2nd Street.

Alta Fillmore has also been covered extensively; the developer is Wood Partners who had originally planned to also build Alta Roosevelt in place of 314 and 420 Roosevelt, and the Canvas building. They ultimately passed on the sale after all the protests.

[Jjs5056]

There are some really strategic properties on the market right now... it's too bad high rise construction is non-existent and even general development is rare within the core of downtown.

But, the McDonalds on 7th Ave/Van Buren is up for sale, as is property on 5th Avenue/Van Buren adjacent to the future RFP land, and a law office building on 2nd Ave between Van Buren/Fillmore.

The second one highlights the fact that 575' is the height limit for that parcel, and I know 7th/VB is similar.

How cool would it be for Van Buren to start redeveloping with high rises? I keep waiting for someone to propose an office project given the low vacancy rates of Class A space.

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

There are some really strategic properties on the market right now... it's too bad high rise construction is non-existent and even general development is rare within the core of downtown.

But, the McDonalds on 7th Ave/Van Buren is up for sale, as is property on 5th Avenue/Van Buren adjacent to the future RFP land, and a law office building on 2nd Ave between Van Buren/Fillmore.

The second one highlights the fact that 575' is the height limit for that parcel, and I know 7th/VB is similar.

How cool would it be for Van Buren to start redeveloping with high rises? I keep waiting for someone to propose an office project given the low vacancy rates of Class A space.

Grace Court is nearly empty. The day you see Grace Court leased, the day you might see another office project on Van Buren west of Central.

[combusean]

^ What a joke that project turned out to be. I remember a forumer on here who clearly had a connection to that project lauding it endlessly, especially its GSA connection, trumping up the development of the school while ignoring the demolition of Madison Square Garden.

Now it's 10 acres of useless.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by combusean

^ What a joke that project turned out to be. I remember a forumer on here who clearly had a connection to that project lauding it endlessly, especially its GSA connection, trumping up the development of the school while ignoring the demolition of Madison Square Garden.

Now it's 10 acres of useless.

I remember that too. Wasn't it built for the County or some entity in particular? (or is that what you mean by "GSA connection"?)

There have been several small buildings demolished quietly (Madison Square Garden went loudly) along 7th Ave between Van Buren and Jefferson. And I'm not holding my breath anything in that vicinity will come along. Maybe something closer to 5th - 3rd - 1st Ave, but I highly doubt 7th Ave will see much improvement, unfortunately.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PHX31

And I'm not holding my breath anything in that vicinity will come along. Maybe something closer to 5th - 3rd - 1st Ave, but I highly doubt 7th Ave will see much improvement, unfortunately.

As fun as it is to envision new high rises I've mentioned the benefit of mid-rise, often mixed use projects also. Here's a few examples of what has been built in Denver, all courtesy of Denver Infill. These are in/near LoDo and so evoke more of an industrial look. The Hines building is 300,000 SF.

Sugar Cube - 1515 Wynkoop by Hines - 1400 Wewatta - 16M

I think that some nice mid-rise projects along the avenues would be awesome.

[soleri]

There's a lot of wishful thinking in a forum like this one suggesting we "need" tall buildings in certain places to maximize the "skyline".

NO. WE. DON'T.

We need good buildings period. If they happen to be tall, great. If not, a one-story building would be better than dirt lots. The problem for a serious urbanophile is how to get to the point where there's an actual city in place so you can begin to build upward instead of outward. Phoenix still hasn't figured that out. Tall buildings are pointless if they're marooned in a moonscape of vacant lots, surface parking, freeways. and dead zones like governmental complexes. Real cities have texture that permit multiple uses and human life. We can't engineer this is Sim City fantasies. We can only nurture it where it already exists and encourage it when it is proposed. People, retail, and good transit are the building blocks. Developers can be useful only if the other elements are in place.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by soleri

There's a lot of wishful thinking in a forum like this one suggesting we "need" tall buildings in certain places to maximize the "skyline".

NO. WE. DON'T.

We need good buildings period. If they happen to be tall, great. If not, a one-story building would be better than dirt lots. The problem for a serious urbanophile is how to get to the point where there's an actual city in place so you can begin to build upward instead of outward. Phoenix still hasn't figured that out. Tall buildings are pointless if they're marooned in a moonscape of vacant lots, surface parking, freeways. and dead zones like governmental complexes. Real cities have texture that permit multiple uses and human life. We can't engineer this is Sim City fantasies. We can only nurture it where it already exists and encourage it when it is proposed. People, retail, and good transit are the building blocks. Developers can be useful only if the other elements are in place.

I don't think its a coincidence that despite the cities grand plans the only thing that has actually produced results is the 100% organic Roosevelt Row.

City officials need to take the garden truss approach to this stuff, you make the truss, and let the vine grow upon it, they always try and find the vine first.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Grace Court is nearly empty. The day you see Grace Court leased, the day you might see another office project on Van Buren west of Central.

According to the commercial real estate website below, the Grace Court building at the corner of 7th and Van Buren is approximately 150,000 square feet. Of that, 100,000 square feet is vacant. That's terrible.

http://www.showcase.com/property/250...rizona/5705989

[dtnphx]

It's even worse than that! Of a total of 310,000 SF of office space attributed to the Grace School complex, 74.1% is vacant. Yikes!

[combusean]

^ And it will probably be vacant for a looooong time. It has all the problems of Midtown: There's 3.3 parking spaces for every 1000 sqft.

The modern ratio is 7.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n....html?page=all

[phxKent]

Mixed-use project coming to light rail stop in central Phoenix -

"A 4-story, 90-unit mixed-use project is in the works in the Eastlake Park district of central Phoenix.
Stephanie Romero, a spokeswoman for the city, told Dealmaker the site plan for The Presidential was recently approved, to be located between the eastbound and westbound tracks of the light rail at 11th Street, between Washington and Jefferson streets."....

See more at: http://roselawgroupreporter.com/2015....MgW5nWUt.dpuf

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by soleri

There's a lot of wishful thinking in a forum like this one suggesting we "need" tall buildings in certain places to maximize the "skyline".

NO. WE. DON'T.

We need good buildings period. If they happen to be tall, great. If not, a one-story building would be better than dirt lots. The problem for a serious urbanophile is how to get to the point where there's an actual city in place so you can begin to build upward instead of outward. Phoenix still hasn't figured that out. Tall buildings are pointless if they're marooned in a moonscape of vacant lots, surface parking, freeways. and dead zones like governmental complexes. Real cities have texture that permit multiple uses and human life. We can't engineer this is Sim City fantasies. We can only nurture it where it already exists and encourage it when it is proposed. People, retail, and good transit are the building blocks. Developers can be useful only if the other elements are in place.

I don't think many people here are/would be promoting the idea of skyscrapers that had no urban connection at the street level. The majority of development happening - in fact, ALL of the development happening - in downtown is small infill or reuse projects clustered around Roosevelt Row and the general attitude is extremely positive around that.

The one exception is Central Station, which everyone seems excited about, but will add absolutely nothing to the streetscape of 3 of the busiest downtown roads beyond a shiny tower.

But, anyway, a 1-story building is not always better than a dirt lot. Sometimes, a dirt lot existing for 10 years until a better market allows for a taller, denser project is better. Between Jefferson and Fillmore, that's my opinion - I think there needs to be some sort of long-term vision for downtown and the fact is that downtown needs density above anything else because it lacks the dense urban neighborhoods that most cities have right on the periphery of their cores. Van Buren is zoned for the highest buildings downtown. Low or midrise development along that corridor would be a terrible utilization of that land.

All this is moot because there is very little demand for any new construction in the downtown core right now.

[Jjs5056]

Apparently, there is a push from businesses/landowners downtown for an 'entertainment district' to be formed - sounds like it has more to do with issues arising from the proximity of Churches and schools. But, if it's enacted and that encourages landowners to develop projects because of the fewer restrictions, than it can only be a good thing.

Also, I heard that something might be in the works for the Knipe House. Looks like that "something" is just a proposal from Baron to turn the land between it and MonOrchid into a massive public parking lot that is used for staging during construction of iLuminate. Roosevelt Row business owners seem obsessed with public parking, so I am sure this will happen without any fight; funny that there is mutiny over the suggestion of demo'ing any structure for fear of 'destroying the culture/neighborhood' but large asphalt lots dedicated to cars are perfectly acceptable land uses.

It's City-owned land: the City should require Baron to redevelop the Knipe House in exchange for the land adjacent to it.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by combusean

^ And it will probably be vacant for a looooong time. It has all the problems of Midtown: There's 3.3 parking spaces for every 1000 sqft.

The modern ratio is 7.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n....html?page=all

I had read that article but I think this is being way over-hyped.

From Hines own website the (actually) 295,220 SF building at 1515 Wynkoop has 415 parking spaces or 1.44 spaces for every 1,000 SF. While that was completed in 2009 their new, nearing completion project at 1601 Wewatta does have 300,000 SF with 400 parking spaces or only 1.33 spaces per 1,000 SF.

Seems I recall Dallas towers having similar ratios but I'd have to double check. mhays, a Seattle developer has commented he's not aware of any dramatic changes from tradition (but I couldn't find his comment).

In any case, having 3.3 spaces per 1,000 SF sounds like a luxury to me.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by CANUC

I don't mean to continue the doubter stance but construction at Union has really slowed to a crawl, to the point that weeds have actually started to re-grow on the lot. I pass the parcel every day and when ground first broke there was excavating work done but since then it's been crickets. There is CAT dirt scraper on sight but I haven't seen it move from its spot in a few weeks.

I noticed more dirt being scraped and equipment moving when I passed by Union on the train this morning. Something's happening, even if the pace is slow.

[dtnphx]

Parking ratio's for an office building at over 3 per thousand is average. There are very, very few properties that offer over 5-6 per thousand parking and those are used for back office type uses. Many suburban corporate campuses will have 5-6 per thousand, but 7, no.

[combusean]

^ And the vacancy rates are high across Phoenix--we're second to Detroit. Office relocations and expansions, which we're supposed to be all about and could save us from this ongoing doldrum, are being built new and are way more parked than that.

I also don't see a technical difference in the parking ratios between a suburban complex and downtown. Downtown offices don't have 50% of their workers coming in by walking, transit, or bike. Moreover, any comparison between Downtown Phoenix and a real city with an extensive transit network or a large residential population base downtown is spurious.

This article sums up what I'm talking about:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n....html?page=all

Either way, the trend looks like it's cramming more people into towers, and as long as buildings are underparked, there's going to be a problem filling them.

[Obadno]

http://azbex.com/mixed-use-project-to-central-phoenix/

So the third midsize apartment complex for 11tha and Washington....

Why this area? Its pretty much a shit neighborhood???