Winnipeg | 300 Main St.- Phase II / 360 Main St. | ~142M | 465 Ft | 42F | U/C

[esquire]

^ Have you used Save On Foods delivery? I find that they do a very good job when it comes to picking, and on the rare occasion they are off the mark they will make it up to you.

But if you absolutely insist on seeing before you buy, there are the actual bricks and mortar downtown grocery stores...

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

I guess I am the odd person here cause I want to see what I am buying.
I want to spend my $ wisely.
I know how I want my meat pr produce to look or feel.
I look for the best before dates.
Supermarket workers have not go the time for that.
And with Online shopping, most times, even though I ask the tough questions ahead about measurements, the sizes are almost always wrong and not even consistent within a brand.
I rather buy it right than start with returns and so on.
In the end it is easier for me to just go in person than waste time between online info and running to the post office to meilo items back.

I'm like you with groceries. That said, I live downtown and have no problem driving 15 minutes to Superstore for a big shop and picking up other items at No Frills on my walk home from work at HSC.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

I'm like you with groceries. That said, I live downtown and have no problem driving 15 minutes to Superstore for a big shop and picking up other items at No Frills on my walk home from work at HSC.

Yes, I do the very same.
If in the future I can nor or give up driving, I would hope to find some grocery options nearby.
Family Foods does not always have the freshest or best products or offerings. G Tiger has limited offerings.
No disrespect, but No Frills and Freshco are not in the safest part of the city as well.
I am ok going with a car but besides being a bit of a far walk, concerns on safety do weigh in on people's minds.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by esquire

The lack of brick and mortar retail downtown, including groceries, is sad because it's a clear symptom of downtown's decline. The lack of foot traffic, the end of downtown's days as a shopping destination, the high prevalence of crime due to social problems that plague the area - those are all reasons why downtown retail has disappeared.

And this is why I keep making a fuss over the obsession with retail. If you insist on seeing brick-and-mortar retail as the ultimate indicator of an area's success then you're going to get pulled into this doom-and-gloom narrative. Y'all really don't seem to remember how dated and stagnant downtown was 20 years ago. The Exchange is without question healthier today than it was then, even post-covid. The rest of downtown is certainly a lot quieter now with working-from-home, and social issues are increasing like they are everywhere in the city and pretty much everywhere in the country. But it has added a bunch of residential towers, hotels, better food options, cafes, museums and other amenities since then. More residents, more development than any time in my lifetime... I think if you get past the high-visibility social issues downtown is in fact much better than 20 years ago.

Yeah there are still tons of problems, a LONG LONG way to go and lots of it is "2 steps forward, 1.5 steps back" but the constant doom-and-gloom is really getting tiresome.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

And this is why I keep making a fuss over the obsession with retail. If you insist on seeing brick-and-mortar retail as the ultimate indicator of an area's success then you're going to get pulled into this doom-and-gloom narrative. Y'all really don't seem to remember how dated and stagnant downtown was 20 years ago. The Exchange is without question healthier today than it was then, even post-covid. The rest of downtown is certainly a lot quieter now with working-from-home, and social issues are increasing like they are everywhere in the city and pretty much everywhere in the country. But it has added a bunch of residential towers, hotels, better food options, cafes, museums and other amenities since then. More residents, more development than any time in my lifetime... I think if you get past the high-visibility social issues downtown is in fact much better than 20 years ago.

I'm not convinced that downtown is in fact any better at all than it was 20 years ago, let alone much better. Maybe 5 years ago you could have made that argument but the pandemic undid so much of the progress to that point.

What are the notable big improvements since then? Canada Life Centre is obviously a big one. There are a couple of new hotels that basically replaced older ones that came off the market (Sheraton became apartments, St. Regis was demolished). CMHR and some improvements at The Forks. True North Square is nice and adds some life to the area.

But I can no longer do my Christmas shopping downtown anymore, there just aren't enough stores left. I can't buy clothes for work downtown. I can't see the latest blockbuster movie downtown anymore. I have to watch my back if I'm on the street after 9 and it's not a hockey night.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not convinced that downtown is in fact any better at all than it was 20 years ago, let alone much better. Maybe 5 years ago you could have made that argument but the pandemic undid so much of the progress to that point.

What are the notable big improvements since then? Canada Life Centre is obviously a big one. There are a couple of new hotels that basically replaced older ones that came off the market (Sheraton became apartments, St. Regis was demolished). CMHR and some improvements at The Forks. True North Square is nice and adds some life to the area.

But I can no longer do my Christmas shopping downtown anymore, there just aren't enough stores left. I can't buy clothes for work downtown. I can't see the latest blockbuster movie downtown anymore. I have to watch my back if I'm on the street after 9 and it's not a hockey night.

Not sure what it is you wear to work but last I checked EPH apparel was downtown or maybe livestock is more your speed.

[GreyGarden]

In light of online shopping and the locations of malls in this city, brick and mortar retail in inner city Winnipeg will be dependent on area residents and downtown workers. Retail is a sign of nearby residents with disposable income - so in some ways, it’s presence really is an indicator of an area’s success.

However, I’m pretty sure downtown has more residents with disposable income now compared to 20 years ago. It’s just not enough to support much in the way of retail. So it’s not all bad, but it is one indicator that the inner city lacks a critical mass of medium to high earning residents.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

In light of online shopping and the locations of malls in this city, brick and mortar retail in inner city Winnipeg will be dependent on area residents and downtown workers. Retail is a sign of nearby residents with disposable income - so in some ways, it’s presence really is an indicator of an area’s success.

However, I’m pretty sure downtown has more residents with disposable income now compared to 20 years ago. It’s just not enough to support much in the way of retail. So it’s not all bad, but it is one indicator that the inner city lacks a critical mass of medium to high earning residents.

The trouble is that the increase in residents with disposable income has been offset to a fairly large extent by increased theft and shoplifting due to growing social problems. I have no doubt that shoplifting hastened the demise of various downtown chain retailers in recent years.

[GreyGarden]

I agree with you. I would definitely think twice before opening a ground floor business in inner city Winnipeg right now. The increased crime, and general social disorder is not a Winnipeg thing (see the stories almost daily from the TTC). However in other cities, the amount of nearby residents and workers spending money in inner city businesses can make putting up with the theft and vandalism worth it.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not convinced that downtown is in fact any better at all than it was 20 years ago, let alone much better. Maybe 5 years ago you could have made that argument but the pandemic undid so much of the progress to that point.

What are the notable big improvements since then? Canada Life Centre is obviously a big one. There are a couple of new hotels that basically replaced older ones that came off the market (Sheraton became apartments, St. Regis was demolished). CMHR and some improvements at The Forks. True North Square is nice and adds some life to the area.

But I can no longer do my Christmas shopping downtown anymore, there just aren't enough stores left. I can't buy clothes for work downtown. I can't see the latest blockbuster movie downtown anymore. I have to watch my back if I'm on the street after 9 and it's not a hockey night.

What you're saying about groceries is also true of retail, just because there's no H&M downtown doesn't mean there's no shopping. EPH Apparel, Lennard Taylor, Clothing Bakery, Haberdashery, MEC, small boutiques with clothes/gifts/jewelry like Hilary Druxman, Tara Davis, Boomerang 360. Toad Hall toys, West Coast kids, Red River books, Bison Books, Into the Music, half a dozen art galleries. That's not even counting the Forks market.

Other than the arena, Qaumajuq, CMHR, True North Square & Hargrave Market, the UofW has expanded, Red river college has expanded. Soon the Bay and Portage Place will be elevated to the highest uses they've had in decades. New residential towers at: Colony st, Medical Arts, TNS, glasshouse, 390 Ass., Smith St Lofts, 300 Main, a dozen condo & apt buildings in the Exchange, ALT & Mere hotels. The Exchange population has like quadrupled since early 2000s. Food & cafe options are MUCH better. The Forks is thriving.

And you act is if downtown wasn't shady after 9pm back then too. Short memories I guess lol.

Maybe a better question is: what did downtown have 20 years ago that was so great, that has now "declined" so much? The Bay? Is it really so bad that you can't go buy a polo shirt at the Bay anymore?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I agree with you. I would definitely think twice before opening a ground floor business in inner city Winnipeg right now. The increased crime, and general social disorder is not a Winnipeg thing (see that stories almost daily from the TTC). However in other cities, the amount of nearby residents and workers spending money in inner city businesses can make putting up with the theft and vandalism worth it.

That's exactly it. With enough paying customers you can absorb some shrink. The Superstore on Sargent was rumoured to be losing over a million dollars a year to shoplifters until they started hiring WPS members to stop the bleeding. But they obviously did enough business at that store that it didn't bring the entire store down.

But unfortunately the numbers just aren't there downtown to sustain major losses to theft. It's why so many of the remaining retail outlets downtown provide services (i.e. things that can't really be shoplifted like fast food, haircuts or nail treatments) or are able to sell enough stuff at high markups that they can absorb the losses (dollar stores). Ordinary, mainstream serve-yourself retail chains like MEC are becoming increasingly rare downtown, unlike in cities where there are enough paying customers to sustain the stores.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by esquire

The trouble is that the increase in residents with disposable income has been offset to a fairly large extent by increased theft and shoplifting due to growing social problems. I have no doubt that shoplifting hastened the demise of various downtown chain retailers in recent years.

Exactly. If this was the 1980's when downtown was dare I say a place to be. You'd have almost no crime. Storefronts were open. Heck I was just a teenager then and used to go to the arcades on Portage by bus no less all the way from sunny st vital with no parents or bear spray lol. Portage was a happening place then..

But the lose of Eaton's and the Bay and a few other bigger store aside from PP going tits up. There was no way DT was going to survive.

However every time I go downtown and walk the skywalk in winter or the sidewalk in summer to go see my broker's in the TD Tower I have to say it's getting better. Maybe in 5 to 10 years it might be close to what it was. Especially if TN holds true to fixing PP.

Covid lockdown did do alot of harm to DTs rejuvenation though. Set us back a good 5 years or more.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

Exactly. If this was the 1980's when downtown was dare I say a place to be. You'd have almost no crime. Storefronts were open. Heck I was just a teenager then and used to go to the arcades on Portage by bus no less all the way from sunny st vital with no parents or bear spray lol. Portage was a happening place then..

But the lose of Eaton's and the Bay and a few other bigger store aside from PP going tits up. There was no way DT was going to survive.

However every time I go downtown and walk the skywalk in winter or the sidewalk in summer to go see my broker's in the TD Tower I have to say it's getting better. Maybe in 5 to 10 years it might be close to what it was. Especially if TN holds true to fixing PP.

Covid lockdown did do alot of harm to DTs rejuvenation though. Set us back a good 5 years or more.

The addiction issue needs to be addressed. There are people camped in Windows Park, at the foot of the Donald Street bridge, they're everywhere now. They have a small village at the end of Waterfront Drive. And this crew is largely responsible for all the broken windows around town.

I don't see much changing until this is addressed or they all die of overdoses: 402 in 2021 and preliminary numbers for 2022 were 418 if I recall correctly.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

However, I’m pretty sure downtown has more residents with disposable income now compared to 20 years ago. It’s just not enough to support much in the way of retail. So it’s not all bad, but it is one indicator that the inner city lacks a critical mass of medium to high earning residents.

More people live downtown today, than 20 years ago. When one considers the majority of people in downtown lived modestly, in apartments south of Broadway 20+ years ago, compared to lots in the exchange or new residential units in downtown and the exchange, it's safe to say the average resident has a higher amount of disposable income.

[DonaldSmith]

Originally Posted by DonaldSmith

Approximately 200 units are being leased in the first tranche. 73 of those units are still available.

63 units left.

[bomberjet]

Seems like decent uptake so far. Hopefully they don't hit market fatigue with remaining 200 units or whatever it is.

Smith St apts sold out there 200+ units as well. Good news for downtown, seems the rental market is still strong.

[DonaldSmith]

54 units left.

[WinCitySparky]

Thanks for the countdown DS, great to hear it’s fillin up

[OTA in Winnipeg]

All you people moving into here from 221 Stradbrook Ave. Looking forward to seeing the perspective all the way around from the top floors of the building.

You're living in the tallest building in this city.

[WinCitySparky]

They live