Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Vin]

I say increase the sentencing of petty crimes and vandalism. Make those responsible work during incarceration to pay for all the damages done, including compensating the victims. Otherwise there would be no chance of parole or even being let out, until all the debt is paid in full, including the bill foot by the public to send these bozos into prison.

If our penal system is even close to what's described above, you'll be surprised how much better people would start behaving.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

I say increase the sentencing of petty crimes and vandalism. Make those responsible work during incarceration to pay for all the damages done, including compensating the victims. Otherwise there would be no chance of parole or even being let out, until all the debt is paid in full, including the bill foot by the public to send these bozos into prison.

If our penal system is even close to what's described above, you'll be surprised how much better people would start behaving.

You need to petition the Federal government to make these changes.

[CivicBlues]

Maybe we can start authorizing and directing the police to start brutalizing the offenders. I mean that's what we keep hearing about in the news right? At least w.r.t. Indigenous and POC. Why can't the VPD just start picking these guys up and dropping them off in some remote forestry road or something?

I mean these offenders don't seem to be deterred by the threat of incarceration (if they even get sentenced) and may even welcome it (warm bed, 3 square meals). But a broken nose every time might make them think twice about their next smashy smashy.

Then as a next step we can start looking into Paramilitary Death Squads and arming vigilante groups.

Whad'ya say guys?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Whad'ya say guys?

We tried!!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/stanley-park-beatings-described-in-detail-1.558310

[spacebjorn]

Const. Troy Peters told the inquiry that Const. Raymond Gardner told the first victim, Barry Lawrie, that people on Granville Street were "tired of drug dealers," and that "the police own Granville Street and it's now time for alternative measures."

This guy sold out his squad over what? Roughing up a few known drug dealers? What a weasel.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Maybe we can start authorizing and directing the police to start brutalizing the offenders. I mean that's what we keep hearing about in the news right? At least w.r.t. Indigenous and POC. Why can't the VPD just start picking these guys up and dropping them off in some remote forestry road or something?

I mean these offenders don't seem to be deterred by the threat of incarceration (if they even get sentenced) and may even welcome it (warm bed, 3 square meals). But a broken nose every time might make them think twice about their next smashy smashy.

Then as a next step we can start looking into Paramilitary Death Squads and arming vigilante groups.

Whad'ya say guys?

Surely there is a middle ground between Hug-a-Thug and the Rodrigo Duterte approach.

[CivicBlues]

I was being sarcastic

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I was being sarcastic

Vraiment?

[CivicBlues]

I didn't use a /s but I would have thought this line would have been a dead giveaway

Then as a next step we can start looking into Paramilitary Death Squads and arming vigilante groups.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I didn't use a /s but I would have thought this line would have been a dead giveaway

When debating online in 2022, I don't take anything for granted.

I mean, I almost had the Canadian equivalent to the burning of the Reichstag happen 10 km from where I sit, barely a month ago!

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I didn't use a /s but I would have thought this line would have been a dead giveaway

But those exist in the U.S. and it seems plenty of Canadians wish they lived in a red state.

Our world is so crazy that sarcasm is not as obvious as it used to be.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Maybe we can start authorizing and directing the police to start brutalizing the offenders. I mean that's what we keep hearing about in the news right? At least w.r.t. Indigenous and POC. Why can't the VPD just start picking these guys up and dropping them off in some remote forestry road or something?

I mean these offenders don't seem to be deterred by the threat of incarceration (if they even get sentenced) and may even welcome it (warm bed, 3 square meals). But a broken nose every time might make them think twice about their next smashy smashy.

Then as a next step we can start looking into Paramilitary Death Squads and arming vigilante groups.

Whad'ya say guys?

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

But those exist in the U.S. and it seems plenty of Canadians wish they lived in a red state.

Our world is so crazy that sarcasm is not as obvious as it used to be.

While others seem to think that a little law and order means living in a red state. Why can't we just let loose of all criminals and let the good people outside take good care of them? Everyone has the right to be free and take advantage of others, especially the hardworking folks. Really.

[Vin]

Everyone should have the right to break into this business and take whatever they want. This is called total freedom and not living in a red state, as per our good friend "Farmerhaight".

"The city has to step up": Gastown business owner battling rampant theft
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/gastown-business-owner-theft-city

If the city centre commercial streets start hollowing out like E Hastings and Chinatown, we are then totally living in a free society. Hooray to liberty!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vin

While others seem to think that a little law and order means living in a red state. Why can't we just let loose of all criminals and let the good people outside take good care of them? Everyone has the right to be free and take advantage of others, especially the hardworking folks. Really.

That's why I talked about a middle ground.

As soon as someone complains about deteriorating public safety on the streets, people immediately evoke Duterte-style death squads who round up and execute (anyone more or less assumed to be) criminals.

So our binary choice would be only between that and increasing levels of lawlessness, incivility and danger?

Please don't ask me to speculate on what the level of the latter would have to reach for me to start being more sympathetic to the former option. I wouldn't like my answer and neither would a lot of people on here I suspect.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Vin

Everyone should have the right to break into this business and take whatever they want. This is called total freedom and not living in a red state, as per our good friend "Farmerhaight".

I'm confused. I wasn't at all supporting not punishing crime.

I was saying armed vigilante groups is a bad idea (which I think CivicBlues was sarcastically suggesting). It's clear that even equipping some cops with guns to serve and protect can have awful consequences for some people, especially minorities and the destitute; do we really want armed civilians deciding whether they have the right to shoot a "criminal" before they can exercise their right to a fair trial?

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Why can't the VPD just start picking these guys up and dropping them off in some remote forestry road or something?

I could of sworn that somewhere in BC, it might of been Vancouver, they used to dump people (alive) at the city limits. The routine was forcefully discouraged either in the 90's or the 2000's.
Correct me if wrong.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I'm confused. I wasn't at all supporting not punishing crime.

I was saying armed vigilante groups is a bad idea (which I think CivicBlues was sarcastically suggesting). It's clear that even equipping some cops with guns to serve and protect can have awful consequences for some people, especially minorities and the destitute; do we really want armed civilians deciding whether they have the right to shoot a "criminal" before they can exercise their right to a fair trial?

Even neighbourhood watch members are of dubious qualification - look at that whole Trayvon Martin thing about ten years ago.

Originally Posted by MIPS

I could of sworn that somewhere in BC, it might of been Vancouver, they used to dump people (alive) at the city limits. The routine was forcefully discouraged either in the 90's or the 2000's.
Correct me if wrong.

You're not wrong. What's worse, it was only First Nations members getting a "starlight tour" in the middle of the winter; Caucasians were hauled to the drunk tank.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I could of sworn that somewhere in BC, it might of been Vancouver, they used to dump people (alive) at the city limits. The routine was forcefully discouraged either in the 90's or the 2000's.
Correct me if wrong.

Quite Wrong-that never happened here but in a frozen province far far away.

[Zepfancouver]

Saskatoon freezing deaths ...That's horrible.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Zepfancouver

Saskatoon freezing deaths ...That's horrible.

Don't worry, it gets worse: the Saskatoon PD has tried to delete that article entirely on two separate occasions, meaning the abusive culture is still there.