LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Why is L.A. architecture so needlessly busy? I mean, damn, there are like eight different buildings in that project.

most of those pics posted by westsidelife I've never seen before, but I do recall the owner of that location originally was the same devlpr of the grand ave proj on bunker hill. They were considering a much taller bldg at that time.....I'm guessing someone out there will complain not just about the design but also about the new bldg not being taller.

I love how all of us are backseat drivers....myself included..... My reaction to how things need to be placed in their full context was posted in the other LA thread last yr.

everyone has an opinion....& you know what they say about opinions & the human posterior....everyone's got one & they all stink...

I'm always interested in seeing how ppl relate to the hood, cuz word of mouth can help or hurt dt.....businesses like hotels, apts, stores. So I always enjoy seeing the give & take at threads like this one.....

EchoParker
23 February 2013 2:12am

I've lived in LA now for 9 years, and I love it here (Echo Park is adjacent to DTLA & is hot for the 20-30 year-olds). It's very truly not a tourist-friendly town (I call it the "Mystery City" for various reasons), but it can be done if you get a plan. I have a car but I leave it parked & use public transportation a lot...

batmanlover
22 February 2013 2:03pm
I went to LA two years ago with very low expectations and I am dying to go back! Public transport does exist and does work although we did get weird looks from the woman in the tourist office when we asked for a bus map. Downtown is brilliant, Santa Monica is great and the whole place is just less smug than San Francisco. Great and inexpensive vintage shops, wonderful architecture-the old movie theatres are something else. So don't knock the place.

twicktraveller
21 February 2013 9:09pm
Fantastic city for tourists if approached the right way. Base yourself in Santa Monica (SaMo) and trip everywhere from there. Excellent bus service - e.g. 40 mins to Downtown on Rapid 10 plus easy bus links to most other areas. SaMo is calm, beautiful and bike friendly - forget car-hire. Plus you're on the spot for gorgeous west-facing beaches and coastal views, hill walking (20 mins on bus to Temescal Gateway Park - MORE views) and fab local shopping / restaurants.

laldava
21 February 2013 8:19pm
L.A is not an easy place to navigate for most tourists, especially ones that don't do research first. It's like a small country, but has much more depth than say San Francisco (contrary to popular belief), which can easily be seen in its entirety in maybe 3 days.

You can be in Los Angeles for weeks or even years and still not discover it all. If you know a local who can show you the city it becomes easier to understand what makes the place so unique. It has tons to offer for just about anyone and is truly diverse in every sense of the word (culturally, geographically, architecturally) etc. and offers cuisine from just about anywhere on the globe - most of it is affordable as well.

Downtown in itself is fascinating place that has seen much change in the last decade and is only getting better each day. Over the next decade it will continue to change dramatically and will be on many people's radar when visiting. Transportation is also gradually getting better - by next year the city will have 5 new metro rail lines or extensions actively under construction.

I recommend checking out the following blog to keep up with all things Downtown L.A: http://www.dtlarising.com It offers a great overview of everything that's happening in the area. There are new things opening every day it seems.

Lecitroen
21 February 2013 2:10pm
To be honest, DTLA is a beast of it's own. For those slagging L.A. off, you clearly haven't done your research. Either that or you are the kind of tourist that would rather pay to ride on those "hop on/off" double-decker tourist buses that are in every tourist city around the world. Sure, if you want an easier experience, go to Paris, London, NYC and ride the chok-a-blok subways(it's not all roses riding those either). If things were meant to be so easy, no one would ever go to Machu Pichu. When did everyone get so uppity? Personally, I've been to London many times myself and don't get it. But you know what, I'm not giving up on it, because I know I am just scratching the surface.

Ignoring the whole DTLA stop, L.A. has so much to offer. The county of L.A. is comprised of 88 cities, which lends itself to inherent diversity and can't be put in a "box". You've got the San Fernando Valley, which is very diverse in itself with Hispanic areas(Van Nuys), hipster areas(NoHo), Jewish(Encino/Tarzana), actors/musicians (Studio City/Sherman Oaks), etc. Then there is Hollywood, WeHo, Culver City, and pockets of ethnic areas(Little Ethiopia), the Beaches(miiiiles of them), and even Pasadena. Side by side, they are nothing alike and offer different things. One can say, something for everyone. There is alot to be found and done in L.A., it's just a car ride away(oh no the C word!!!).

Call it fake, call it yuppie, or anything else to put it down. However, you'll be wrong in doing so, because it's far too diverse and spread out to even categorise. DTLA has come a long way, but in 10-20 years it will be a true destination. If not, there are 80+ cities to explore....

JohannesL
21 February 2013 1:06pm
Los Angeles is a bit strange place if you are used to European cities. There are only a few places with walking crowds. I think about 70% of the space is reserved for cars, freeways, roads, streets, ramps, parking lots, garages. A friend of mine called it "a city where you have to drive half an hour if you want to take a piss". Having said that, it is quite fascinating and worth a visit. The great climate and all the palm trees, and the Pacific Ocean, are a big plus.

For me the memorable experience was the Skid Row, where I walked before the sunrise one morning (jet lag): hundreds if not thousands of homeless people sleeping on the pavement wrapped in blankets or in sleeping bags or tents. The sunrise-lit gleaming skyscrapers less than a kilometer away.

If the gritty, boozy L.A. described by Charles Bukowski, Tom Waits, John Fante, Raymond Chandler, Tom Russel and many others fascinates you, there is a lot of that left in Downtown Many old buildings are protected, but seemingly empty. Not many bars though. If more people moved in, it would be a great centre for great city,

LostintheUS
21 February 2013 1:01pm
Gehry is a blight throughout the world's major cities. Same idea repeated endlessly of extremely expensive stainless steel, heavy and highly reflective. Los Angelos is also a city of urban gardens and farms. San Francisco is a really great city to visit.

MatthewWHall
21 February 2013 5:52am
L.A. is a company town at heart, not an urbane center of cultural life. Skip it.

gingerliu
21 February 2013 5:19am
I never go downtown at night. Dodgy and full of crackheads.

AngryMan1001
20 February 2013 7:44pm
Union Station - amazingly preserved because of the underfunding of public transport. It's like going back in time. Also, check out a few of subway stations on the red/purple lines, as they show a few London tube stations what they should look like (the rolling stock is terrible though)

Baco Mercat - bloody delicious but good luck getting a table within 30 minutes.
Syrup Desserts - yummy waffles with fruit and ice-cream, coffee from La Mill
Little Tokyo Village - particularly the bakeries as they have an amazing variety of delicious treats (green tea doughnuts!). Home of the ice-cream mochi!
Wurstkuche - for the beer (tight portions, unfortunately), wurst and fries.
Chaya - try to go during happy hour. Pricey but get the crispy brussels sprouts, which are fab.

I can't believe this article missed LA Live! Get some cheap seats at a Clippers/Lakers game or go bowling.

My take on Downtown LA - "islands of wealth, swimming in a sea of human squalor".

GUILLERMOL17
20 February 2013 7:21pm
Los Angeles is a natural desert, don't let the surface level fool ya. Actually, go to Los Angeles, it's way better than the San Francisco Bay Area. lol

KingBroadway
20 February 2013 7:11pm
This is actually a pretty interesting list.
One thing; the Bonaventure is a very outdated hotel at this point. You'd be much better off staying at the Ritz/Marriott, which is relatively new.

mokebelt73
20 February 2013 4:15pm
At first vist LA can be a bit meh, a bit of a let down. But 2,d, 3rd, 4th visit it gets much much better, it creeps up on you. Its a great vibe, its all hidden gems, you have discover it. And once you do you love it.

San Fran is the opposite, first time you go there its love at first sight. But 2,d, 3rd, 4th visit you realize is a bit of a veneer, not much underneath, its lightweight, like going to a beautiful cocktail party with loads of pretty people who you then realize all a bit bland and boring and you want to leave.

Lots to do in LA, but one of life's great pleasures is driving in a convertible car along Sunset Blvd, through the neighborhoods, up Mulholland and just having fun. Some great restaurants, great bars, clothes shops, museums, parks and the people are pretty cool too.

Leviathan212
20 February 2013 4:12pm
I visited LA a few years ago, and fount it to be one of the worst cities for public transport. The bus system was atrocious, and the city layout is such that it is very difficult to get around without a car. Maybe things have changed now.

SomeBodyUK
20 February 2013 10:51pm
@RonaldinCSTXUSA - None of those places are in downtown LA. I lived in downtown LA for a few years and it's a shithole. I was based in London before I moved to LA and there's no comparison. Pink's hotdog's is overrated bollocks BTW

20 February 2013 10:59pm
@SomeBodyUK - Yay! The stereotypical English berk makes his appearance. You missed your chance to cal the La Brea tar pits "bloody rubbish" and Venice Beach "naff." Will consider it as said, though.

21 February 2013 12:21am
@DVGriffin - So you're a mind reader too? I actually like LA - I still live here. I just think downtown LA is a bit of dump!

21 February 2013 12:36am
@SomeBodyUK - Fair enough - but if you'd added the info you just posted in your first post it wouldn't have seemed like drive-by sneering.

Anyway downtown LA has changed drastically over the last few years and will continue to change for the better as people become aware of the historic buildings and chances for a genuinely urban lifestyle. It might not be your cup of tea but I think it has the potential to rival Chelsea in New York in terms of atmosphere.

21 February 2013 2:16am
@SomeBodyUK - Fair enough. They are not downtown L.A. But when you travel half way across the country from Texas, or around the world for that matter, Sunset Boulevard is relatively close to downtown L.A.

You're right that L.A. is not an endearing city. If I recall correctly, Krzysztof Kieślowski, the Polish director once mentioned the idea of a trilogy of movies focusing on three cities to represent Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell after filming his Three Colors trilogy. Although he could not decide on cities to represent Heaven and Purgatory, he had selected Los Angeles as the city to represent Hell.

kittybitty
20 February 2013 2:32pm
having lived in LA and SF for 3 years I wouldn't venture to most places in down town LA alone, especially broadway. LA is a bit crap for tourists but great once you live there and get to know it. For a place to live, i preferred LA to SF, sunnier and more stuff to do. Some of my best downtown places are:

- olvera street, which is the oldest street in LA and has loads of great mexican stalls
- china town - lots of movies have been filmed there and is less commerical than the one is SF, and not on a hill
- in the summer the outdoor cinema food fest is great in the summer
- downtown skybar in the mondrain (not cheap but great view)
- basket ball at the staples centre

zbzdhbafr
20 February 2013 1:54pm
i bet los angeles has about as much depth as you get from a tv screen. so no need to go then.

helenamay
20 February 2013 4:46pm
@zbzdhbafr - based on - what? what you know of Hollywood and celebrity culture? that would be like writing off London because you've seen Match Point. for what it's worth, you couldn't be more wrong. LA has a diverse culture and mad energy...... it lacks the pretentions of SF and NYC

Vjong1
20 February 2013 1:38pm
Really liked, loved and enjoyed L.A., when I was there last year. Would like to go back and stay longer. Very special city.

Pinkpearl
20 February 2013 1:09pm

Emperors new clothes.
Of all the places I have ever visited LA has to be the biggest disappointment. A boring, ugly, dirty concrete monstrosity of an anti-climax.

Kperson
20 February 2013 1:19pm
@Pinkpearl - Agreed. I went in 2003 and it was possibly the worst city I have ever visited. Aim a few hundred miles north and go to San Francisco instead, which is one of the best cities I have ever visited.

20 February 2013 1:56pm
@Pinkpearl - I'd take exception about the place being ugly and dirty. Its just that its not tourist friendly -- unlike SF its sights and attractions are spread out and difficult to access unless you know your way around. If I were there for a few days I'd choose a different set of places to visit -- Griffith Park (and the observatory), the museums at Exposition Park and along Wilshire (including the La Brea Tar Pits), MOCA, MONA and so on. There's so much its difficult to know where to start -- probably some advance planning with the Los Angles Times or other news outlets would be useful.

Its got quite an effective public transport system if you know how to use it. (I wouldn't recommend driving to a newbe.)

GarethJ2550
20 February 2013 1:58pm
@Kperson - Just to endorse your San Francisco recommendation, it's on a more human scale with far more character. LA was block upon block of nothingness, avoid. The best bit of our trip was viewing it from the air in a helicopter.

20 February 2013 2:19pm
@Pinkpearl - have to disagree, it has got great museums, great restaurants, and some really funky neighbourhoods. Not tourist friendly, that is true, and its charms are not as obvious as those of SF or San Diego, but LA is fun, nevertheless, just needs a little more work.

20 February 2013 2:58pm
@Pinkpearl - I lived in SF for 4 years before moving to LA, and I tell people Los Angeles is a great place to live, but not the best to visit. But it has got so much better. What makes SF charming to visit became for me insufferable - like living in a self-congratulatory souvenir shop. LA is whacked out, but maybe more like New York of 1890, loads of immigrants, dynamism, constant change.

20 February 2013 4:34pm
@Pinkpearl - Los Angeles is a fantastic place to visit, but only if you know a local. It's not a tourist friendly place, and it's difficult to get beyond the surface.

@Kperson - SF is a Disney, or should I say Google - city, it lacks all interest and depth (exported to Oakland), but does lend itself to a nice day out

20 February 2013 7:07pm
@Kperson - A lot has changed in 10 years, particularly downtown.

MGWILLEY
20 February 2013 12:36pm
The perch- great view
buzz wine beer shop - wine tasting
the falls - great drinks
the la cafe - for a lobster grilled cheese sandwich
the pool bar - hotel standard "watch out for Australians who ran up my bar tab with my knowledge"
tacos Mexicanos - open 24 hours "watch your wallet"
Oh and stay out of the 2nd street tunnel its full of tramps sleeping and smells like piss.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by Gram3000

I love the design!! If sucessful I hope that it become a benchmark for historic "re-creation" here among many other vacant lots in the vicinity. Like others have said it will all be in the materials used to deliever a high quality development. Another thing is that its not gonna be just another stucco box since it will be 10 stories and require steel!! Hopefully the adjacent building will have similiar high quality as well.

This is what happens when we have such impossibly low expectations for a building. I must say, not only is the Palmer building NOT a Tuscan, it also isn't half bad. In fact, it manages to fit with the neighborhood quite well. We'll see how it eventually turns out.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

This is what happens when we have such impossibly low expectations for a building. I must say, not only is the Palmer building NOT a Tuscan, it also isn't half bad. In fact, it manages to fit with the neighborhood quite well. We'll see how it eventually turns out.

Now the question is...........why can't we expand some of these design guidelines into City West to prevent more Italian faux design that is totally inappropriate for downtown LA? Maybe Palmer has it in him to build good architecture if required. He could be turned from the most feared developer to the most loved in one quick swoop...........

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

Now the question is...........why can't we expand some of these design guidelines into City West to prevent more Italian faux design that is totally inappropriate for downtown LA? Maybe Palmer has it in him to build good architecture if required. He could be turned from the most feared developer to the most loved in one quick swoop...........

Palmer might be smarter than any of us realize. Sure his Tuscans are crap design wise, but you can't deny their success. He was building the Medici when NO ONE was even looking at downtown. You have to give him credit for being bullish. If his new building project on Broadway is a success both in design and occupancy rate, then lots of people will welcome his designs especially on Broadway.

[StethJeff]

My, how opinions can change. Amazing seeing how some of the most anti-Palmer forumers have seemingly 180'd after a single rendering. Not hating, just think its funny.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

My, how opinions can change. Amazing seeing how some of the most anti-Palmer forumers have seemingly 180'd after a single rendering. Not hating, just think its funny.

I don't see any 180's.

Just some acknowledgement that his new design is better than expected although expectations were very low. And that as hated as his faux Italian developments are, they've always filled up fast.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

My, how opinions can change. Amazing seeing how some of the most anti-Palmer forumers have seemingly 180'd after a single rendering. Not hating, just think its funny.

Don't worry. I don't even like the new one very much. I believe that architecture should reflect the current society, and would have much rathered something interesting and modern built. But at least it isn't Tuscan.

[Valyrian Steel]

What that single rendering shows is that he can build something different. Of course that's an early rendering so we have to wait and see how good it looks in the end...

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

My, how opinions can change. Amazing seeing how some of the most anti-Palmer forumers have seemingly 180'd after a single rendering. Not hating, just think its funny.

I don't think it's a 180. Easy pretty much said it. To be honest, I'm not totally sold on this new project. But our expectations (I'm speaking for some of the other forumers here) were not high at all considering Palmer's other offspring. I think we're relieved that it isn't a Tuscan.

[DistrictDirt]

Can someone post a link to the development roundup in LA Downtown News that several forumers have referred to? I can't seem to find it. Or is it in the print version only?

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

Can someone post a link to the development roundup in LA Downtown News that several forumers have referred to? I can't seem to find it. Or is it in the print version only?

This one?
http://www.ladowntownnews.com/developmen...eefbfaa-59d0-11e1-8447-0019bb2963f4.html

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by HunterK

This one?
http://www.ladowntownnews.com/developmen...eefbfaa-59d0-11e1-8447-0019bb2963f4.html

That's the one. Thanks!

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

That's the one. Thanks!

That's actually the one from last year. This is the most current roundup.

http://issuu.com/ladtn/docs/ladtn02-25-1...nnews.com/app/issuu/basicGrey/layout.xml

(It starts on page 6).

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

That's actually the one from last year. This is the most current roundup.

http://issuu.com/ladtn/docs/ladtn02-25-1...nnews.com/app/issuu/basicGrey/layout.xml

(It starts on page 6).

Thanks! Geez I keep forgetting its 2013. I saw Feb 21st and thought it was recent.



Wow just read about the Singer building conversion on Broadway. Converting the ground floor (which should be retail) into parking for residents? How can this be allowed.. Very shameful.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

That's actually the one from last year. This is the most current roundup.

http://issuu.com/ladtn/docs/ladtn02-25-1...nnews.com/app/issuu/basicGrey/layout.xml

(It starts on page 6).

That is the only place that I found it as well. I wouldn't have seen it had it not been mentioned here.

This is the first time that I can recall them including the update in the paper edition and not the regular online one. I almost like that one better though because we can see all of the projects without clicking through them one at a time.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by HunterK

the survey also included mention of the rehab proj at the NE corner of 5th & broadway. This is more informative than some of the other listings cuz it gives a number of how many apts have been filled....

Chester Williams Building

Downtown Management finished its transformation of the 75-year-old Chester Williams Building at Fifth Street and Broadway last fall. The building with 88 apartments is now about 65% leased, said Greg Martin, Downtown Management's vice president. The project cost was about $15 million. Pharmacy chain Walgreens has signed a lease for the 13,908-square-foot ground-floor commercial space. The shop, which will compete with the Rite Aid across the street, is slated to open late this year.

I wish their lists would do that for all the projs that have been completed or opened, esp the Apex tower at 9th & fig....which is easily the largest amt of new housing in the hood right now, containing 271 apts, with 10 being rented as of early november last yr.

btw, the brockman bldg now has about 8 apts still available, or down from around 11 to 13 a few wks ago.

after the last group of new apt projs was completed over 12 or so (or more?) months ago, there was a moment when dt was described as having a somewhat high vacancy rate, esp compared with areas miles towards the west. I do wonder what will happen when the current round of new projs....& for dt quite a large number is in the pipeline.....is ready for tenants around the end of 2014. that's why I'm personally more interested in how quickly or slowly ppl respond to renting new apts in dt, more than whether a proj's design will win a pritzker prize or not.

when Palmer's faux tuscan apt bldgs have filled up rather quickly going back to around 2000 or 2001, I'm guessing that the average person certainly will not be concerned that his new proj across from the ace hotel probably won't be getting an award from the AIA.

[ThomJames]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Thanks! Geez I keep forgetting its 2013. I saw Feb 21st and thought it was recent.



Wow just read about the Singer building conversion on Broadway. Converting the ground floor (which should be retail) into parking for residents? How can this be allowed.. Very shameful.

I think the ground floor parking in the Singer bldg. will be accessed from the alley behind Broadway. There will only be seven units in the Singer, each unit the entire floor, that will still allow for retail fronting Broadway. There is no way the city will allow the retail fronting Broadway, be entirely removed.

I think one of the major problems in rejuvenating Broadway is that the retail spaces are huge. I think there is real difficulty finding tenants for such large spaces.

[gerryberry]

Originally Posted by citywatch

the proposed projs that caught my attention are the ones with groundbreaking dates that are rather specific and not way off in the future.

In comparison, the apt bldg across from the old united artists bldg, is described as having a completion date of 2017....at least no less than 3 full, solid yrs from now...meaning its groundbreaking would occur not much before 2015. Having to wait that long to see how it jells does change some of my earlier .

yes i do remember that on palmer´s homepage it said 2017 as an opening date a while ago, they now changed it to 2015!

[gerryberry]

here´s the link...
http://www.ghpalmer.com/underconstruction.asp

[Easy]

Originally Posted by gerryberry

yes i do remember that on palmer´s homepage it said 2017 as an opening date a while ago, they now changed it to 2015!

God catch! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that had "2017" very recently. Like a week ago. I remember thinking that the wood frame buildings seem to go up quickly, but when they get over 7 stories it adds to the time significantly.