DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[PLANSIT]

A major zoning and density conversation is about to take place citywide with the update to Blueprint Denver starting this summer. Much of the conversation will be if you want X type of transit service, you're going to need X type of density. Educational component is a big part. Should be interesting.

Those conversations will help formulate (not necessarily dictate) what comes out of the Transit Master Plan.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

http://www.businessden.com/2016/01/27/sl...no-brewery-lot-sells-for-13m/#newsletter

It always bothered me that the brewery was "River North".. that neighborhood doesn't start until you cross Broadway in my mind. This headline bothers me too.

*rabble rabble rabble*

[bunt_q]

I'm not much a believer in revolution. But if ol' Bernie could sell me 30-story buildings and a subway on Colfax, I might bite.

But any process that includes the word "conversation" in it probably ends in "compromise" and "mediocrity" more than it does "revolution." No public conversation ever produced a prize stallion. Lots of camels, though.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by enjo13

It always bothered me that the brewery was "River North".. that neighborhood doesn't start until you cross Broadway in my mind. This headline bothers me too.

*rabble rabble rabble*

RiNo Arts district calls it their own, and so does Ballpark Neighborhood District, Elyria Swansea/Globeville Business Association, and Arapahoe Square Neighborhood assoc., so take your pick really.
https://www.denvergov.org/maps/map/neighborhoodorganizations

Neighborhoods map doesn't make the distinction and just calls it Five Points.
https://www.denvergov.org/maps/map/neighborhoods

And DenverInfill (our official source ) calls it Ballpark
http://denverinfill.com/neighborhoods.htm

[mr1138]

I find it interesting that Denver even takes the time to officially designate neighborhoods. Unless they have some kind of political power (are Denver's council districts based on these neighborhoods?), it almost seems more trouble than its worth. The exact boundaries change over time as boundaries are created and removed, and are highly subjective anyway. For example, I think the boundary between Lower Highland and the CPV has changed from the river to I-25, and as such Platte Street has changed neighborhoods (it was famously considered part of "The Bottoms," while Central and Boulder were not). But the official map still puts the neighborhood line at the river. The area now called Ballpark/RiNo/Curtis Park/Five Points/Arapahoe Square was once also home to Chinatown (I've never been able to pin down its exact boundaries, but I've read it was roughly centered on Walnut/Market st), though that part of its history is now long gone. To me River North is everything west of the RR tracks, and Blake and Larimer are not. But since "RiNo" is the hot new neighborhood, I'm sure realtors are eager to extend the boundaries of what they can claim it is. I'd imagine these names and locations will remain in flux for quite some time to come.

[Denver Dweller]

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_29441701/rocky-mountain-pbs-looks-build-new-home-denvers

[Dogpatch]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_29441701/rocky-mountain-pbs-looks-build-new-home-denvers

I think it's a great thing that PBS is looking at Arapahoe Square as the new location for it's headquarters. That neighborhood needs every development it can muster to get rolling as the next "target for urban revival". Especially if those developments take up big chunks of parking lot.

But I was surprised to read that this block is state-owned. Seeing as how AS seems to be mostly composed of a lot of small parcels (so land assembly isn't real easy), this block seems like a prime opportunity to create an actual square to go along with the name of the neighborhood. I know there's a large homeless population here (and nearby), so maybe a public gathering place won't be well received. But from afar, it seems like the city needs to do something significant to jump start AS, and not wait for it to happen organically. I think a public square with retail all around it...bounded on one side by 21st (touted as the main strip through AS and Ballpark) could be something really special in the years to come.

Does anyone know if there any other "state-owned" blocks in Arapahoe square where such a thing might be possible?

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Dogpatch

I think it's a great thing that PBS is looking at Arapahoe Square as the new location for it's headquarters. That neighborhood needs every development it can muster to get rolling as the next "target for urban revival". Especially if those developments take up big chunks of parking lot.

But I was surprised to read that this block is state-owned. Seeing as how AS seems to be mostly composed of a lot of small parcels (so land assembly isn't real easy), this block seems like a prime opportunity to create an actual square to go along with the name of the neighborhood. I know there's a large homeless population here (and nearby), so maybe a public gathering place won't be well received. But from afar, it seems like the city needs to do something significant to jump start AS, and not wait for it to happen organically. I think a public square with retail all around it...bounded on one side by 21st (touted as the main strip through AS and Ballpark) could be something really special in the years to come.

Does anyone know if there any other "state-owned" blocks in Arapahoe square where such a thing might be possible?

It's far too close to Park Ave to be a good candidate for a central square. It needs to be much closer to 20th I'd think.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by mr1138

I find it interesting that Denver even takes the time to officially designate neighborhoods.

Pretty common practice. Some states even require it (I doubt Colorado is one of those though).

[awholeparade]

There is actually a business and general improvement district for the RiNo neighborhood, so there are some formal boundaries in place.

Originally Posted by mr1138

I find it interesting that Denver even takes the time to officially designate neighborhoods. Unless they have some kind of political power (are Denver's council districts based on these neighborhoods?), it almost seems more trouble than its worth. The exact boundaries change over time as boundaries are created and removed, and are highly subjective anyway. For example, I think the boundary between Lower Highland and the CPV has changed from the river to I-25, and as such Platte Street has changed neighborhoods (it was famously considered part of "The Bottoms," while Central and Boulder were not). But the official map still puts the neighborhood line at the river. The area now called Ballpark/RiNo/Curtis Park/Five Points/Arapahoe Square was once also home to Chinatown (I've never been able to pin down its exact boundaries, but I've read it was roughly centered on Walnut/Market st), though that part of its history is now long gone. To me River North is everything west of the RR tracks, and Blake and Larimer are not. But since "RiNo" is the hot new neighborhood, I'm sure realtors are eager to extend the boundaries of what they can claim it is. I'd imagine these names and locations will remain in flux for quite some time to come.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Dogpatch

Does anyone know if there any other "state-owned" blocks in Arapahoe square where such a thing might be possible?

Don't think so. Probably the last state-owned block in Arapahoe Square with redevelopment potential is the Post Office block at 20th and Curtis. The Greyhound terminal could be another option.

But I think that a while block might be too much of a square for a downtown our size, or what it might grow to over the next 30 years or so. A half-block square with a mixed-use building fronting the square might be of better benefit to the Araqahoe Square neighborhood.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Pretty common practice. Some states even require it (I doubt Colorado is one of those though).

Interesting. I never knew this. I know other cities like New York and SF also have similar shifting boundaries. There is endless debate about where exactly the Tenderloin is relative to Union Square. I've heard that the geography of the Lower East side of Manhattan is constantly changing as well.

Colorado definitely isn't a state that requires designating neighborhoods, because Boulder has stayed away from doing so to whatever extent possible. The "locals right to vote on zoning changes" ballot initiative from last fall would have forced the city to define neighborhoods, but since it didn't pass, there are still no officially designated neighborhood boundaries.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by awholeparade

There is actually a business and general improvement district for the RiNo neighborhood, so there are some formal boundaries in place.

I just did a search and can see what you're talking about. Basically all of this falls inside of Denver's official "Five Points" neighborhood (which is much larger than it should be). I guess nobody uses the old term "Upper Larimer" anymore? I've always considered the mixed-industrial areas along Blake, Walnut, and Larimer to be distinct from River North, but again... semantics. It looks like the RiNo art district is also claiming a large chunk of what is officially a part of Elyria Swansea (who's name may also suggest it was once more than one neighborhood?).

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by awholeparade

There is actually a business and general improvement district for the RiNo neighborhood, so there are some formal boundaries in place.

Registered neighborhood organizations aren't mandatory in Denver, and they're not city-created so much as neighborhood-created. They're city creatures - here's the applicable section of the municipal code:

https://www.municode.com/library/co/denv...deId=TITIIREMUCO_CH12COPLDE_ARTIIIRENEOR

Business improvement districts and general improvement districts are completely different. They are statutorily created (through a city process as well). But they are fundamentally special districts under Title 31.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by mr1138

I know other cities like New York and SF also have similar shifting boundaries. There is endless debate about where exactly the Tenderloin is relative to Union Square...

Oh sure, the vernacular shifts even if there are official designations.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by awholeparade

There is actually a business and general improvement district for the RiNo neighborhood, so there are some formal boundaries in place.

I didn't know this, looks like it was created late last year to help keep the area an artist and startup haven.

http://www.rinobid.org/news/

[bunt_q]

Those aren't the "real" boundaries of the BID, though. The BID only includes the commercial properties within that area. Residential properties can't be part of the BID. Cool all aroudn that they got that formed.

[enjo13]

Northeast of Broadway! I knew it.

Also the blue boundary looks like a rad spaceship.

[mhays]

"Official" boundaries only matter for the purpose they were created for...taxation, planning, school assignments, whatever. Unless it's a small island, there are no "official" neighborhood boundaries. Neighborhoods are subjective.

[Pedalrob]

Originally Posted by mhays

"Official" boundaries only matter for the purpose they were created for...taxation, planning, school assignments, whatever. Unless it's a small island, there are no "official" neighborhood boundaries. Neighborhoods are subjective.

There are official neighborhoods in Denver and Five Points is one of them. Rino, Ball Park, Prospect, and Curtis Park are all RNO's that exist at least partially in the Five Points statistical neighborhood. The boundaries are used for statistics, such as crime. https://www.denvergov.org/maps/map/neighborhoods
The census can also be broken down by these neighborhoods much like what is done by the Piton Foundation. http://denvermetrodata.org/