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  #7081  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2026, 10:00 PM
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This is one scheme for a Waterfront Drive extension cooked up as part of a previous transit planning exercise. It would require blowing up all of south PD. Something similar could be done though if the City so desired and still keep all of Higgins and everything to the north of it intact. This would be in a future major redevelopment scenario. IMO just planning to keep a piece of that current lot being redeveloped would be fairly minor thing to do.

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  #7082  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2026, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
still an unfounded leap.

I guess the drawings I saw for the site were prepared by another firm …

Nice building though..

20 parking stalls…

Lets see what happens in 2026 with the remaining tenants and occupancy.

Last edited by Labroco; Feb 21, 2026 at 4:17 AM.
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  #7083  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2026, 12:17 AM
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This is one scheme for a Waterfront Drive extension cooked up as part of a previous transit planning exercise. It would require blowing up all of south PD. Something similar could be done though if the City so desired and still keep all of Higgins and everything to the north of it intact. This would be in a future major redevelopment scenario. IMO just planning to keep a piece of that current lot being redeveloped would be fairly minor thing to do.

This was the transit plan we participated in but do not believe was adopted. Scatliff did a beautiful study on the area stake holders hoped would move forward but the urban challenges and fiscal constraints pushed this proposal further back.

The Shortline site is 300,000ft2 and Vitafoam 80,000ft2.

There has never been a better time for the federal government’s linear federal waterfront park to be reserected. Two stake holders, endless possibilities…
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  #7084  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2026, 9:29 PM
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maybe i just don't have the perspective but the city seems so rudderless on this kind of stuff. I'd rather see something like vancouver or toronto where they all kinds of master plans for things (good and bad) and only lack the funding/will to push them through.
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  #7085  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2026, 11:37 PM
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Rudderless is a perfect description.

As we all know the city and province need to deal with the vagrancy epidemic downtown for some real change to happen.
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  #7086  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2026, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Rudderless is a perfect description.

As we all know the city and province need to deal with the vagrancy epidemic downtown for some real change to happen.
I'm not sure what you want the city and province to do?

Vagrancy is defined as a state of living without regular work, wandering from place to place and asking for money or food.

"Vagracy" was removed from the criminal code in the 1970's, though many municipalities, including Winnipeg, have adopted kind of "neo-vagrancy" laws, like the recent prohibitions about where homeless encampments can be located.

About all the city and province can do is either get people to "move along", or include them in their anti-homelessness strategy.

Vagrancy is considered related closely to homelessness, but isn't considered "identical".

The city and provinces anti-homelessness strategy has been discussed here ad nauseum. I'm not going to go over that again, it's too easy to look up.
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  #7087  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2026, 4:29 PM
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Ad nauseum for sure. So we're destined to live in this dystopian like state forever because rights or something.

What about all the trash, squatting, vandalism, etc? What about taking over literal neighbourhoods in the downtown? Do something about it. Basically everyone you talk to would agree.
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  #7088  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2026, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
I guess the drawings I saw for the site were prepared by another firm …

Nice building though..

20 parking stalls…

Lets see what happens in 2026 with the remaining tenants and occupancy.
not sure what drawing you saw, but it was drawn by someone who doesn't know its not allowed to be a parking lot...

Last edited by trueviking; Feb 23, 2026 at 5:27 PM.
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  #7089  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2026, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Ad nauseum for sure. So we're destined to live in this dystopian like state forever because rights or something.

What about all the trash, squatting, vandalism, etc? What about taking over literal neighbourhoods in the downtown? Do something about it. Basically everyone you talk to would agree.
I'm not saying the issue shouldn't be addressed, but it's really not as easy as "do something about it". I dislike seeing someone else's mess dumped on personal or public property, and I don't enjoy being panhandled.

The trouble is, how, specifically do you want it dealt with? Vagrancy is currently not against the law, so we can't send the police to start rounding up and detaining people for being messy and hanging about.

Littering IS against the law, and is usually handled by local (municipal) government. Typically fines are handed out for littering offences. If fines are not paid, typically there are late fees and other fines. Personal property could be confiscated in lieu of financial payment. I'm not sure how this would realistically apply to people who lack financial resources or have much in the way of personal property. Even if you can, the legal routes are extremely time consuming and, I'm sure, expensive for municipalities.

Crimes committed by vagrants, such as property crimes, vandalism, theft, etc. can be prosecuted, but tend to be treated as "minor" offences. In a legal system that often strains under the weight of criminal prosecutions, a pile of garbage in the street or a few items taken off of store shelves gets lower priority.

So what does one do about it? I'll ignore "eliminate the causes of vagrancy" because that's essentially saying "eliminate human weaknesses". We've been working on that one for thousands of years, so it's not likely to be changed any time soon.

I'm absolutely no expert, but I can see only a few ways of dealing with the issue. 1) ignore it 2) change the laws to make vagrancy illegal again 3) force compliance with social norms through limiting access to supports and/or severely limiting where vagrants receive their supports or 4) try to reduce the number of vagrants through various social agencies that provide food, housing and personal supports.

I'm not sure there's any one solution that will be a "magic bullet" to deal with the issue permanently, though I think if people should be actively promoting the course they feel is best through campaigning their political representatives.
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  #7090  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 2:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
I'm not saying the issue shouldn't be addressed, but it's really not as easy as "do something about it". I dislike seeing someone else's mess dumped on personal or public property, and I don't enjoy being panhandled.

The trouble is, how, specifically do you want it dealt with? Vagrancy is currently not against the law, so we can't send the police to start rounding up and detaining people for being messy and hanging about.

Littering IS against the law, and is usually handled by local (municipal) government. Typically fines are handed out for littering offences. If fines are not paid, typically there are late fees and other fines. Personal property could be confiscated in lieu of financial payment. I'm not sure how this would realistically apply to people who lack financial resources or have much in the way of personal property. Even if you can, the legal routes are extremely time consuming and, I'm sure, expensive for municipalities.

Crimes committed by vagrants, such as property crimes, vandalism, theft, etc. can be prosecuted, but tend to be treated as "minor" offences. In a legal system that often strains under the weight of criminal prosecutions, a pile of garbage in the street or a few items taken off of store shelves gets lower priority.

So what does one do about it? I'll ignore "eliminate the causes of vagrancy" because that's essentially saying "eliminate human weaknesses". We've been working on that one for thousands of years, so it's not likely to be changed any time soon.

I'm absolutely no expert, but I can see only a few ways of dealing with the issue. 1) ignore it 2) change the laws to make vagrancy illegal again 3) force compliance with social norms through limiting access to supports and/or severely limiting where vagrants receive their supports or 4) try to reduce the number of vagrants through various social agencies that provide food, housing and personal supports.

I'm not sure there's any one solution that will be a "magic bullet" to deal with the issue permanently, though I think if people should be actively promoting the course they feel is best through campaigning their political representatives.
Folks who think there are simple solutions to social issues tend to have superficial understanding of the issues.
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  #7091  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 1:27 PM
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I could post the meme of "man we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas again". I didn't really want to re-hash this topic again as we've beat it to death.

In basically all areas of life I'm one who believes the rules and laws should be enforced. Sports. Call the bloody penalty in overtime. Every time.

Life. You're breaking the law, you should be fined or arrested, whatever it is. You're squatting on public land. You're moved along. Chronic offender, arrested. You're loitering on the sidewalk, throwing trash everywhere. Writing on the walls (have you seen Main St project?!) Arrested.

Struggle with that for a while. Disperse the crowd. Instead we're just letting the crowd have their way with our downtown and our livelihoods really.

The simpleton in me believes that. The social issues causing this, obviously more complex. But at risk of upsetting the people, we'll just do nothing.
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  #7092  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 2:40 PM
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But at risk of upsetting the people, we'll just do nothing.
I think optics are part of the issue. Laws and their enforcement is the jurisdiction of politics, and politics is all about optics. Personally I think money plays just as important a part, if not the major part. The cost of enforcing, prosecuting and, potentially, jailing people is enormous. Expanding that to cover vagrancy issues when almost every jurisdiction in the country is running deficits isn't going to get much traction.
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  #7093  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I could post the meme of "man we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas again". I didn't really want to re-hash this topic again as we've beat it to death.

In basically all areas of life I'm one who believes the rules and laws should be enforced. Sports. Call the bloody penalty in overtime. Every time.

Life. You're breaking the law, you should be fined or arrested, whatever it is. You're squatting on public land. You're moved along. Chronic offender, arrested. You're loitering on the sidewalk, throwing trash everywhere. Writing on the walls (have you seen Main St project?!) Arrested.

Struggle with that for a while. Disperse the crowd. Instead we're just letting the crowd have their way with our downtown and our livelihoods really.

The simpleton in me believes that. The social issues causing this, obviously more complex. But at risk of upsetting the people, we'll just do nothing.
I think it stems from misplaced or misunderstood empathy or compassion. We’ve been inculcated to believe that it is compassionate to not want to disturb people who are doing all of the above mentioned things, but alas it is not. It is not compassionate to allow people to rot on the streets, spending their days tormented by addiction and often serious mental illnesses. It is also not compassionate to not enforce criminal law. Our empathy would have us not do stuff like involuntarily commit people into psychiatric hospitals or arrest people for crimes, but this empathy is a road directly to hell for both us and the people who continue to live in those unacceptable conditions. But that’s only one half of the equation, we also need social standards and cultural norms that deter and motivate people who end up in those situations who are not by nature addicts and mentally ill.

People say it’s not simple. I would counter and say that the solutions are simple concepts, however they are infinitely complex in implementation and rely heavily on people adopting ethics and morality that permit for the cultural and political changes to be made that will allow this problem to be resolved.

Would love to see waterfront extended though, and the architecture on main is criminally under used and appreciated.
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  #7094  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 4:14 PM
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I think it stems from misplaced or misunderstood empathy or compassion. We’ve been inculcated to believe that it is compassionate to not want to disturb people who are doing all of the above mentioned things, but alas it is not. It is not compassionate to allow people to rot on the streets, spending their days tormented by addiction and often serious mental illnesses. It is also not compassionate to not enforce criminal law. Our empathy would have us not do stuff like involuntarily commit people into psychiatric hospitals or arrest people for crimes, but this empathy is a road directly to hell for both us and the people who continue to live in those unacceptable conditions. But that’s only one half of the equation, we also need social standards and cultural norms that deter and motivate people who end up in those situations who are not by nature addicts and mentally ill.

People say it’s not simple. I would counter and say that the solutions are simple concepts, however they are infinitely complex in implementation and rely heavily on people adopting ethics and morality that permit for the cultural and political changes to be made that will allow this problem to be resolved.

Would love to see waterfront extended though, and the architecture on main is criminally under used and appreciated.
This is a good point. As much as people like to oversimplify solving homelessness to suit their political agenda (they just need housing/they just need money/they just need to go to jail) there are working models that have basically ended homelessness and they aren't that complicated. Yes, they need housing, yes they need money, and yes they may need to go to jail (or into mental healthcare).

Somehow, depending who you ask, at least one of the above unleashes an unspeakable evil. Handouts! Nanny state! Arbitrary arrest! Other handouts! You'd think Amsterdam and Helsinki were populated strictly by layabouts and jackboot thugs.

Canada has a problem with involuntary mental health holds. If you've ever tried to get one for someone you care about who is in crisis, you'll know this.
Yet there's a general squeamishness about them. This is good; we shouldn't like taking peoples' freedom. But we should admit that they're a tool we need, even as we defend ourselves against potential abuse with that tool.

I bring this up because it's probably the biggest hurdle to clear in actually doing something about homelessness.

I don't think conservatives will ever do anything; they're too cheap and moralistic and only bothered by homelessness when it directly affects them. Moving the homeless somewhere else is enough to satisfy them.

Which leaves it to the left. And if they ever get it together enough to launch a housing first initiative, they'll still need to get over their aversion to force. This includes involuntary mental health holds, but extends to policing people who abuse public spaces and even banning rough sleeping entirely.

I wonder if part of the problem is how Canadians relate to public spaces. The people in the Waterfront Drive encampment could go out to crown land and do whatever they want. And if there, the reasoning goes, why not here? Homeless people are members of the public. Are they not also entitled to use public parks?

Canada may be unique in how public and private land relate. Public land is almost limitless. Private land has hard limits; there's no right to roam as such. And most people don't miss it; they can live their entire lives on their own land alone. Public land is abundant, far away, and utterly unnecessary. To the Dutch, where public spaces are valuable parts of day-to-day life, the idea that anyone should have the right to exclude others from using these space is absurd, whether they do so in a tent or a mcmansion.
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  #7095  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 4:39 PM
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It's really difficult for me to not be of two minds on homelessness.

On the one hand, yeah, you know what? If we're not allowed to take back our own streets then screw it: if the law isn't on the side of the people who it's supposed to work for, then I guess they'll just have to go somewhere else. We'll just move our tax dollars to a place that isn't so hell-bent on committing civic suicide.

On the other hand, well, okay, what [I]can[I] we do about it? We really do need to bring back harsher and less forgiving methods. If somebody is mentally ill to the point that they're essentially committing crimes against themselves, we're not dealing with people who are capable of making rational decisions. So, why can't they be involuntarily committed to a mental institution? Likewise, with drugs, people shouldn't have the right to break every law on the books in pursuit of a fix.Those laws shouldn't ignore the impact of their self-harming behaviour on the wider population. I would think that finding themselves homeless and living for no more than the next hit or swig is the line that needs to be crossed in order to involuntarily commit them to rehabilitation programs.

Basically, I don't understand who it serves to consider it a human right to destroy civilization, no matter how small the individual scale.

Putting people in jail is pointless. Just throwing them out of one spot forces them to choose another not far away. Bad ideas.

Giving them shelter, food and clothing aren't really bad ideas as long as we're careful about not allowing it to be abused. It should only be a temporary measure. Above all, make sure they get treatment. That's it.

We all want to see the Exchange thrive from top to bottom. Just ignoring the issues doesn't actually make them go away.
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  #7096  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 8:04 PM
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Isn't it also partly just a question of how police choose to enforce existing laws (or not to)? It's not illegal to be in a public space but surely if they enter most of the problem camps you're going to quickly find plenty of infractions of various laws and bylaws, enough to take some people for questions and to confiscate stuff. You don't have to bother the guy who sleeps on a bench and keeps to himself but it seems like they could do more to deal with the people hoarding stolen goods and such.
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  #7097  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2026, 11:26 PM
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I wouldn't say "nothing" is being done about encampments, etc. The city has given itself the legal authority to move encampments within 30-50 meters of "sensitive public areas". Bylaw officers and police visit encampments and the province's "My Way Home" program tries to connect homeless people with suitable accommodations. Some encampments have been cleaned up, but others keep getting re-inhabited. The trouble is, progress is always too slow, so it's easy to conclude nothing is being done.

If there is someone here who is now working directly with the city, province, police or a social agency dealing directly with the homelessness issue, I'd love to hear some direct information about our progress on this issue.
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  #7098  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2026, 2:03 PM
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Big ol' fire under the northbound Maryland bridge this morning. I'm guessing tires involved based on the smoke but maybe not. Went by at 07:40 and no WFPS on scene at the time. That's good for the structure, I'm sure...
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  #7099  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2026, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post

I don't think conservatives will ever do anything; they're too cheap and moralistic and only bothered by homelessness when it directly affects them. Moving the homeless somewhere else is enough to satisfy them.

Which leaves it to the left. And if they ever get it together enough to launch a housing first initiative, they'll still need to get over their aversion to force. This includes involuntary mental health holds, but extends to policing people who abuse public spaces and even banning rough sleeping entirely.
Both excellent points, especially the point about the left's aversion to force, even when it is justified. A good example is the recent reaction among some folks in the social service industry to the province's three-day holding facility for people under the control of drugs that can effect the system for that long, or longer. Outrage, accusations, but little apparent sympathy for the public who can also become victims of the user's addiction.

For the record, I think we need to re-examine some sort of long-term mental care and, let's be honest, confinement of individuals who are a threat to others and themselves. Call it a "mental health campus" if "mental hospital" is too similar to the abuses of the past. Have a requirement to prove and individual is a repeated or chronic threat to themselves and others before commitment, and have a mechanism to demonstrate the person is capable of living independently, or with family, so it's not a life-long sentence.

I realize broaching the subject is probably political suicide. Simplistic characterizations and accusations are bound to follow any such program.
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  #7100  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2026, 4:30 PM
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My view is overly simplified, but in my mind, there are 3 groups of homeless. I understand there are definite complexities.

One - People who are down on their luck and need some assistance. These people should be offered the opportunity for housing and assistance in getting back into the workforce. These are the people we should work hard to house.

Two - People that have mental health and substance issues that most likely won’t respond well to housing and the rules that are associated with it. They are highly unpredictable and most likely should be institutionalized until such time that they can be re-integrated into society.

Three - The last group is people that do not want to integrate into societal norms. They do not like the rules attached to housing. They feel it is their right to live free on the land. This group also includes criminal activity which should be addressed. They should be moved along or arrested.
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