Calgary Public Transit II

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

I know that this thread is dedicated to "public transit" but after my first night out downtown in a long time, I felt the need to unload and figured this was the best forum to do it in.... My situation: A good friend of mine was in town from Toronto. We went to the Flames game (a loss... but that's another story). After the Flames game we decided we wanted to have a few drinks in a nice pub. Upon exiting the Saddledome we discovered that there are no obvious places to catch a taxi. Instead, we walked 6 blocks to 'The National' pub on 17th Ave and 5th Street to enjoy a few beverages. At 2 am, the pub closed and we were forced out onto the street to fend for ourselves. I immediately called '#taxi' to try to arrange for a taxi home. After 15 minutes on hold, while standing outside in -15 weather, I was finally connected to Associated Cabs. They told me I was #7 for the calling area and there was no guarantee as to how long it would take for a taxi to arrive. After another 1 hour and 15 minutes (1 hour and 30 minutes total) standing around in -15 temperatures my friend and I were finally able to get into a taxi and this was only by standing in the middle of the street and literally blocking a lane of traffic. Upon asking the taxi driver if waiting over an hour for a taxi was standard for a Saturday night in Calgary we were informed that yes, it was. I have lived in Ireland, England and several cities in Canada and Calgary is the only city where I have had to wait longer than 10 minutes for a taxi cab. Combined with the cold temperatures in the winter, this wait time crosses the line from inconvenience to a health and safety hazard. This is absolutely ridiculous!!! I don't know what the solution is but I was absolutely embarrassed to be a Calgarian tonight and there needs to be a resolution. Whether it be through better public transit or a complete over-haul of the taxi system in Calgary, something needs to be done. "Public Transit" means the ability of the majority of people to make it from 'A' to 'B' without the use of a vehicle. Calgary's bus and train system do this fairly well but they are limited by their hours of service.... Calgary's taxi system is in a desperate need of an overhaul. I just hope this happens sooner rather than later....

The city should look into starting a "Night Bus" service similar to what Vancouver has. That, or keep trains running longer on Friday and Saturday nights.

[fusili]

I agree 100%. Never ask a cabbie if they think there is a problem, all of them will tell you there isn't, because it is in their interest to keep the existing system running.

This is where I think our Council, and politicians in general, have dropped the ball . As a strong supporter of Nenshi, this is where I disagree with him massively. We need to completely de-regulate the taxi industry. People are driving home drunk when they can't find a cab, they are standing in the cold for hours at a time. Ghost cabs are a serious issue- there are a lot of them, and it is only a matter of time before a serious crime is committed due to a desperate passenger getting into a stranger's car. I know many people who have used them and quite honestly, I would be terrified if any woman, or group of women I know got into one without a guy with her/them.

The taxi situation in Calgary is not just a matter of dispatchers, that is just a line that the taxi proponents use to distract from the real issue: not enough cabs. Try finding a cab anytime on a Friday or Saturday night in the City, let alone New Years, Stampede or Halloween. The problem is due to the limited number of licenses, and it needs fixing now before someone gets hurt.

We need a system that allows casual drivers who want to make an extra buck driving on weekends, holidays, etc to do so. There is no reason why the number of cabs on the street should not triple during those times, with the bulk of the extra cabs being casual drivers.

The solution is simple: pass a vehicle safety inspection, pass a drivers test, pass a language test and have a camera on the dash (that the police have access to). Now you can drive a cab. It costs you $150 for the inspections. Go drive people home safe now.

Originally Posted by outoftheice

I know that this thread is dedicated to "public transit" but after my first night out downtown in a long time, I felt the need to unload and figured this was the best forum to do it in.... My situation: A good friend of mine was in town from Toronto. We went to the Flames game (a loss... but that's another story). After the Flames game we decided we wanted to have a few drinks in a nice pub. Upon exiting the Saddledome we discovered that there are no obvious places to catch a taxi. Instead, we walked 6 blocks to 'The National' pub on 17th Ave and 5th Street to enjoy a few beverages. At 2 am, the pub closed and we were forced out onto the street to fend for ourselves. I immediately called '#taxi' to try to arrange for a taxi home. After 15 minutes on hold, while standing outside in -15 weather, I was finally connected to Associated Cabs. They told me I was #7 for the calling area and there was no guarantee as to how long it would take for a taxi to arrive. After another 1 hour and 15 minutes (1 hour and 30 minutes total) standing around in -15 temperatures my friend and I were finally able to get into a taxi and this was only by standing in the middle of the street and literally blocking a lane of traffic. Upon asking the taxi driver if waiting over an hour for a taxi was standard for a Saturday night in Calgary we were informed that yes, it was. I have lived in Ireland, England and several cities in Canada and Calgary is the only city where I have had to wait longer than 10 minutes for a taxi cab. Combined with the cold temperatures in the winter, this wait time crosses the line from inconvenience to a health and safety hazard. This is absolutely ridiculous!!! I don't know what the solution is but I was absolutely embarrassed to be a Calgarian tonight and there needs to be a resolution. Whether it be through better public transit or a complete over-haul of the taxi system in Calgary, something needs to be done. "Public Transit" means the ability of the majority of people to make it from 'A' to 'B' without the use of a vehicle. Calgary's bus and train system do this fairly well but they are limited by their hours of service.... Calgary's taxi system is in a desperate need of an overhaul. I just hope this happens sooner rather than later....

[Riise]

Originally Posted by fusili

We need a system that allows casual drivers who want to make an extra buck driving on weekends, holidays, etc to do so. There is no reason why the number of cabs on the street should not triple during those times, with the bulk of the extra cabs being casual drivers.

The solution is simple: pass a vehicle safety inspection, pass a drivers test, pass a language test and have a camera on the dash (that the police have access to). Now you can drive a cab. It costs you $150 for the inspections. Go drive people home safe now.

In London, these are called Minicabs and my God are they useful! An added measure of protection that they use in London is that minicabs/private-hires have to be pre-booked. Although it may seem like a troublesome hurdle, minicabs often run out of little booths - the size of a take out joint - you find on the high street in busy areas. People people just walk from the club/resto/stadium a short distance to the local booth, tell them their destination, its entered into the records, and a cab appears in short order. Simples!

Also, you can pre-book on the internet so as long as you have SmartPhone you are usually golden.

[TallisRH]

I know the RouteAhead plan/team have mentioned there will be a trial of late night bus service, but I haven't heard anything else on it since.


Re: airport bus signage improvements: There's now a staffed Calgary Transit booth on the arrivals level at the airport. Should be an improvement.

Also, I think there's a proper ticket machine being installed at the actual airport bus stop. Part of the sidewalk has been dug up, and a new concrete pad roughly the size of a ticket machine has been built with wiring running up out of it. Just a guess though, it could be something else entirely.

[outoftheice]

Well by the sounds of it I'm definitely not the only person who's been faced with Calgary's late night taxi nightmare. I'm in complete agreement with people on here that feel that the entire taxi system is in need of a drastic overhaul. That being said, I was thinking about what could be implemented as a quick fix to bring some sort of improvement and came up with the following idea that I'd be curious to get some feedback on.

One of the biggest problems that I can see when it comes to Calgary's taxi system is related to the sprawl of the city. If a taxi picks up a fare downtown, chances are that that fare needs to be driven out to one of the suburban neighbourhoods. I think it's reasonable to assume that the average late night drive to the city's fringes probably takes around 20 minutes. Once the taxi drops off the fare, it's another 20 minutes to get back downtown. So a taxi will probably average 1 fare every 40 minutes. So my thinking goes that if you can cut down on the average time spent carrying a fare, you can at least make the taxis in the city more productive without increasing their numbers.

With that in mind, what if the City was to set up designated "Taxi Transfer" stations along the LRT lines?? One "Taxi Transfer" station would be designated towards the end of each LRT line and would be displayed as such on all LRT route maps. I was thinking Brentwood in the NW, Rundle in the NE, Westbrook in the W and Anderson in the S. The City could enter into an agreement with one of the cab companies that would see a taxi queue created at each of these stations with a requirement that a minimum number of taxis were always available at the stations between the hours of 7pm and the point when the last train arrives from the city centre. The logic behind this plan would be that by having people take the trains to cover the majority of the distance out of the city centre the time the taxis would be busy with fares would be cut in half. This way, one taxi could double it's productivity by doing multiple short trips with in suburbia based around their designated "Taxi Transfer" station instead of one long trip out from downtown. Eventually this program could be expanded so that a night bus program could bring people out later at night to these "Taxi Transfer" stations.

So what do people think? Is there any merit to this idea or is it feasible at all to do?

[fusili]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Well by the sounds of it I'm definitely not the only person who's been faced with Calgary's late night taxi nightmare. I'm in complete agreement with people on here that feel that the entire taxi system is in need of a drastic overhaul. That being said, I was thinking about what could be implemented as a quick fix to bring some sort of improvement and came up with the following idea that I'd be curious to get some feedback on.

One of the biggest problems that I can see when it comes to Calgary's taxi system is related to the sprawl of the city. If a taxi picks up a fare downtown, chances are that that fare needs to be driven out to one of the suburban neighbourhoods. I think it's reasonable to assume that the average late night drive to the city's fringes probably takes around 20 minutes. Once the taxi drops off the fare, it's another 20 minutes to get back downtown. So a taxi will probably average 1 fare every 40 minutes. So my thinking goes that if you can cut down on the average time spent carrying a fare, you can at least make the taxis in the city more productive without increasing their numbers.

With that in mind, what if the City was to set up designated "Taxi Transfer" stations along the LRT lines?? One "Taxi Transfer" station would be designated towards the end of each LRT line and would be displayed as such on all LRT route maps. I was thinking Brentwood in the NW, Rundle in the NE, Westbrook in the W and Anderson in the S. The City could enter into an agreement with one of the cab companies that would see a taxi queue created at each of these stations with a requirement that a minimum number of taxis were always available at the stations between the hours of 7pm and the point when the last train arrives from the city centre. The logic behind this plan would be that by having people take the trains to cover the majority of the distance out of the city centre the time the taxis would be busy with fares would be cut in half. This way, one taxi could double it's productivity by doing multiple short trips with in suburbia based around their designated "Taxi Transfer" station instead of one long trip out from downtown. Eventually this program could be expanded so that a night bus program could bring people out later at night to these "Taxi Transfer" stations.

So what do people think? Is there any merit to this idea or is it feasible at all to do?

Great idea.

[andasen]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Well by the sounds of it I'm definitely not the only person who's been faced with Calgary's late night taxi nightmare. I'm in complete agreement with people on here that feel that the entire taxi system is in need of a drastic overhaul. That being said, I was thinking about what could be implemented as a quick fix to bring some sort of improvement and came up with the following idea that I'd be curious to get some feedback on.

One of the biggest problems that I can see when it comes to Calgary's taxi system is related to the sprawl of the city. If a taxi picks up a fare downtown, chances are that that fare needs to be driven out to one of the suburban neighbourhoods. I think it's reasonable to assume that the average late night drive to the city's fringes probably takes around 20 minutes. Once the taxi drops off the fare, it's another 20 minutes to get back downtown. So a taxi will probably average 1 fare every 40 minutes. So my thinking goes that if you can cut down on the average time spent carrying a fare, you can at least make the taxis in the city more productive without increasing their numbers.

With that in mind, what if the City was to set up designated "Taxi Transfer" stations along the LRT lines?? One "Taxi Transfer" station would be designated towards the end of each LRT line and would be displayed as such on all LRT route maps. I was thinking Brentwood in the NW, Rundle in the NE, Westbrook in the W and Anderson in the S. The City could enter into an agreement with one of the cab companies that would see a taxi queue created at each of these stations with a requirement that a minimum number of taxis were always available at the stations between the hours of 7pm and the point when the last train arrives from the city centre. The logic behind this plan would be that by having people take the trains to cover the majority of the distance out of the city centre the time the taxis would be busy with fares would be cut in half. This way, one taxi could double it's productivity by doing multiple short trips with in suburbia based around their designated "Taxi Transfer" station instead of one long trip out from downtown. Eventually this program could be expanded so that a night bus program could bring people out later at night to these "Taxi Transfer" stations.

So what do people think? Is there any merit to this idea or is it feasible at all to do?

I've been thinking of something along the same lines, though you would pretty much have the taxi stand system coming online in conjunction with a night bus service. The Taxi-Transit combo is not needed until 11 or 12 when the switch over would happen. What would make it work would be if Calgary Transit and the cab industry were to come together such that anyone with a transit fare would get a slight discount on the cab ride (some percentage of taxi cost savings in combination with some revenue sharing from Calgary Transit) on all valid tickets (logistical challenges might preclude pass holders).

But ya Anderson, Westbrook, Brentwood and Rundle Night buses. Perhaps also throw in a bus going to Centre and 4th/72nd. Have them circulate DT and 17th before doing direct service to respective locations.

[Socguy]

Another issue is that Taxis are allowed to refuse fares. While I can understand not wanting to pick up a severely inebriated individual, I have seen this employed frequently to only take the most profitable fares. For example: On busy nights with bad traffic good luck getting a cab to take you out of downtown to the outskirts of the city. After dropping you off, deadheading all the way back into downtown is not profitable, especially if conditions are poor. Much better to pick up multiple fares for short distances.

Yet another issue is that their dispatches are understaffed leading to busy signals for customers while cabs drive around empty looking for a fare

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Socguy

Another issue is that Taxis are allowed to refuse fares. While I can understand not wanting to pick up a severely inebriated individual, I have seen this employed frequently to only take the most profitable fares. For example: On busy nights with bad traffic good luck getting a cab to take you out of downtown to the outskirts of the city. After dropping you off, deadheading all the way back into downtown is not profitable, especially if conditions are poor. Much better to pick up multiple fares for short distances.

Yet another issue is that their dispatches are understaffed leading to busy signals for customers while cabs drive around empty looking for a fare

I don't see how cabs can drive around empty looking for a fare at the end of the night. Seriously just drive down Stephan Ave, 11th Ave, 4th Street or 17th ave and you will find a fare.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by fusili

Stephan Ave.

Do you have a brother named Stephan? You always spell it that way. Stephen Ave.

[Calgarian]

If you have trouble finding a cab, go to a hotel, that usually works for me.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

Do you have a brother named Stephan? You always spell it that way. Stephen Ave.

Friend named Stephan. It's a common mistake of mine.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Well by the sounds of it I'm definitely not the only person who's been faced with Calgary's late night taxi nightmare. I'm in complete agreement with people on here that feel that the entire taxi system is in need of a drastic overhaul. That being said, I was thinking about what could be implemented as a quick fix to bring some sort of improvement and came up with the following idea that I'd be curious to get some feedback on.

One of the biggest problems that I can see when it comes to Calgary's taxi system is related to the sprawl of the city. If a taxi picks up a fare downtown, chances are that that fare needs to be driven out to one of the suburban neighbourhoods. I think it's reasonable to assume that the average late night drive to the city's fringes probably takes around 20 minutes. Once the taxi drops off the fare, it's another 20 minutes to get back downtown. So a taxi will probably average 1 fare every 40 minutes. So my thinking goes that if you can cut down on the average time spent carrying a fare, you can at least make the taxis in the city more productive without increasing their numbers.

I don't agree with this...in fact quite the opposite. I think there are many opportunities for cabs that head out to the burbs to bring people back the other way. There is a higher demand for cabs out in the burbs that you know.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

So what do people think? Is there any merit to this idea or is it feasible at all to do?

I've long been a fan of 24-hour CTrain service on Thursday-Saturday so people can get a taxi at their local CTrain station but I think your idea of having taxi-stands at select stations might be a better idea. It would help concentrate the demand and push it over the threshold.

[CTrainDude]

Originally Posted by Riise

I've long been a fan of 24-hour CTrain service on Thursday-Saturday so people can get a taxi at their local CTrain station but I think your idea of having taxi-stands at select stations might be a better idea. It would help concentrate the demand and push it over the threshold.

Being inside the system, I just don't think 24 hour Ctrains are the answer. The cost of running these trains (both the monetary costs of paying the operator, support staff, and for electricity, theres also a lot of lost productivity for maintenance projects at night when trains don't run.) Despite what everyone thinks, there wouldn't really be enough ridership to be even close to justifying the service - and those that do ride are high maintenance and high risk riders, more likely to puke or urinate on a train, or commit drunken acts of vandalism.

Fix the taxi system, but I still think 24 hour LRT is a bad idea.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by CTrainDude

Being inside the system, I just don't think 24 hour Ctrains are the answer. The cost of running these trains (both the monetary costs of paying the operator, support staff, and for electricity, theres also a lot of lost productivity for maintenance projects at night when trains don't run.) Despite what everyone thinks, there wouldn't really be enough ridership to be even close to justifying the service - and those that do ride are high maintenance and high risk riders, more likely to puke or urinate on a train, or commit drunken acts of vandalism.

Fix the taxi system, but I still think 24 hour LRT is a bad idea.

What's about buses following the LRT routes?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by rotten42

I don't agree with this...in fact quite the opposite. I think there are many opportunities for cabs that head out to the burbs to bring people back the other way. There is a higher demand for cabs out in the burbs that you know.

Many of us in the burbs don't even bother. Case in point, me: taxi service is so bad and so unreliable in this city, that I pay to park at the airport. Even when I'm going away for 5-10 days. It costs (only slightly, at times) more than a roundtrip cab, but holy christ - at least I make my flight. Trying to get a cab to the burbs, with any semblance of schedule, is near-impossible in this city. I've entirely given up after a desperate last-minute begging for help of a friend (who had to leave work to get me there). I'd just as soon pay several hundred dollars to not have to deal with the taxi system in this city.

So yeah, I more than fully agree with the original poster here. Cab service in Calgary is by far the worst I've experienced. Don't even get me started on how long it takes during Stampede - why the hell aren't we bringing in hundreds of temp workers during that time? Hell, even the prostitutes do it!

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by rotten42

I don't agree with this...in fact quite the opposite. I think there are many opportunities for cabs that head out to the burbs to bring people back the other way. There is a higher demand for cabs out in the burbs that you know.

I'm sure that there are opportunities to bring people both ways, but I also believe that there is generally a large mismatch in when the people want to leave and come back. For example how many people are looking to go out to the 'burbs at 2am vs. wanting to come back in? By the same token how many people would want to go downtown at 8am vs back out? I'd wager a huge mismatch.

[Policy Wonk]

I much prefer the arrangement in some US states where taxis and limos are regulated at the state level by some mega-buracracy or consumer oriented agency rather than the municipal one.

At the municipal level the taxi industry has ridiculously disproportionate influence. At the state level they're nearly irrelevant and the regulator is far insulated from any elected office holder.

Of course I think the less municipalities are permitted to regulate the better.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I much prefer the arrangement in some US states where taxis and limos are regulated at the state level by some mega-buracracy or consumer oriented agency rather than the municipal one.

At the municipal level the taxi industry has ridiculously disproportionate influence. At the state level they're nearly irrelevant and the regulator is far insulated from any elected office holder.

I like me that idea.