The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 355

Nouvellecosse · #**7081** Posted **Sep 27, 2015, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The rail trails are there a a sort of placeholder. Lets say in 10 years after commuter rail is started, they think they need a line along the south shore, legally, they could replace the rail trail with tracks.
Thi is why I love rail trails. Yo never really get rid of the ROW

That sounds good in the theoretical, but I suspect it would be politically untenable.

swimmer_spe · #**7082** Posted **Sep 27, 2015, 8:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

That sounds good in the theoretical, but I suspect it would be politically untenable.

Everything in theory is great.

Yes, in real life, this change over would be very politically charged. Everything is. Look at the uprising when they widened out Chebucto road from 2 lanes to 3. People were uprising over a few trees.

GreaterMontréal · #**7083** Posted **Sep 27, 2015, 8:58 PM**

The West Island-Rive-Sud LRT project will be the intermediate transit mode in the Montréal region. Once finished, everyone living inside the AMT network will have a transit access to YUL.

lrt's friend · #**7084** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 12:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

I was just trying to guess from how the Skytrain felt. It didn't quite seem the same as a subway, but that might have been me thrown off by it being above ground almost the whole time.

I still think that Toronto needs a skytrain system. It just seemed like it would fit Toronto so perfectly. Too bad the Go Train one didn't get built.

Are skytrains really practical in areas that get snow and ice regularly?

Nouvellecosse · #**7085** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 12:41 AM**

^ They are if they're built for it. You can easily heat the rails and magnetic propulsion strip but you'd need to spend a little extra.

Remember, the Scarborough light metro is the same technology as the original Skytrain lines. Although I believe they omitted heated components as a cheap-out.

SkahHigh · #**7086** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 12:47 AM**

I don't want to break off the convo here but don't forget there's a thread dedicated to LRT and rapid transit discussion!

swimmer_spe · #**7087** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 1:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

I don't want to break off the convo here but don't forget there's a thread dedicated to LRT and rapid transit discussion!

.... it is the way it flowed.

SkahHigh · #**7088** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 1:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

.... it is the way it flowed.

Simple reminder... Never said you weren't free to pursue the discussion.

swimmer_spe · #**7089** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 2:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

Simple reminder... Never said you weren't free to pursue the discussion.

I know.

WhipperSnapper · #**7090** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 2:55 AM**

Toronto had the very first Skytrain. The tech was developed by the Ontario government. I can't figure out how it would be the perfect system for Toronto. The city is built out. Corridors would have to be purchased at astronomical expense. Neither would it make any sense to run it in existing commuter rail corridors. The only option is elevated track along existing arterials which would be a massive disaster.

Bombardier has certainly improved the tech since aquiring it and it has led to more sales but, it's not this amazing inexpensive system forumers love to triumph just because it's successful in the GRVD.

MalcolmTucker · #**7091** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 3:54 PM**

To jump back a bit, commuter rail doesn't exist in Calgary because the legacy rail lines are too busy carrying freight and Calgary was much much smaller during the golden rail age so doesn't have lines built out to double, triple, and quad tracks. Our electric rail was interurbans, but there wasn't enough traffic to justify running them in dedicated corridors so there aren't left over corridors from them either.

All those factors led the city to build new lines instead. If the city / future regional government board (the province is imposing one on the region) wants to run longer distance commuter rail in the future it will be ludicrously expense because in all directions you run into choke points that would be seriously expensive to overcome.

swimmer_spe · #**7092** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

To jump back a bit, commuter rail doesn't exist in Calgary because the legacy rail lines are too busy carrying freight and Calgary was much much smaller during the golden rail age so doesn't have lines built out to double, triple, and quad tracks. Our electric rail was interurbans, but there wasn't enough traffic to justify running them in dedicated corridors so there aren't left over corridors from them either.

All those factors led the city to build new lines instead. If the city / future regional government board (the province is imposing one on the region) wants to run longer distance commuter rail in the future it will be ludicrously expense because in all directions you run into choke points that would be seriously expensive to overcome.

Do those lines have the space for 2, 3, or 4 lines?
Where are the choke points? How many lines could be fit there? What are the obstacles?

Beedok · #**7093** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 7:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I can't figure out how it would be the perfect system for Toronto.

It just seemed like it would fit the feel of Toronto perfectly. The design schemes Vancouver used, the look of the trains, the ability to see all the highrise nodes, etc. It just felt perfectly Toronto to me. Like how you can look at a street somewhere and think it reminds you totally of another city you've lived in the Sky-Train just had a very 'Toronto' feel to me.

swimmer_spe · #**7094** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 8:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

It just seemed like it would fit the feel of Toronto perfectly. The design schemes Vancouver used, the look of the trains, the ability to see all the highrise nodes, etc. It just felt perfectly Toronto to me. Like how you can look at a street somewhere and think it reminds you totally of another city you've lived in the Sky-Train just had a very 'Toronto' feel to me.

The problem is that most of Toronto is more dense than the GVA. Think of just the city of Vancouver. Now, make that the entire route.

A raised system would be an eyesore in Toronto.

Nouvellecosse · #**7095** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 10:35 PM**

^ You must not think much of the Chicago L!

swimmer_spe · #**7096** Posted **Sep 29, 2015, 1:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

^ You must not think much of the Chicago L!

I have not seen it. I have seen NYC's elevated sections. From a ground level view, they look as pretty as the Gardnier.

SkahHigh · #**7097** Posted **Sep 29, 2015, 1:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

^ You must not think much of the Chicago L!

The Chicago L is awesome... It makes the city look so urban.

lrt's friend · #**7098** Posted **Sep 29, 2015, 2:04 AM**

Integration of elevated railways into an urban landscape is very difficult. In most cases, it will be considered an eyesore, especially if the right of way is narrow. Most of New York's El's were demolished because of this. It was a matter of urban renewal that began immediately following demolition. The fact that it has worked in Vancouver does not mean that it will work well in other cities.

lrt's friend · #**7099** Posted **Sep 29, 2015, 2:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

The Chicago L is awesome... It makes the city look so urban.

The Chicago L almost certainly would not be built today.

Bdawe · #**7100** Posted **Sep 29, 2015, 2:08 AM**

Recall that the technology is flexible. Where overhead doesn't fit, it can be tunneled or even fenced at grade.

The format (if not the particular technology itself, like the Canada Line) would have been perfect for Eglinton Crosstown or Sheppard, especially if the TTC were to pull up the political Moxie and tell the union's to shove it while they run the trains automatic