LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[ozone]

Forget gondolas. They should just build a new Dodgers ballpark downtown close to a Metro station and develop the present site into housing.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

As of now ROW is nice in and of itself but totally cut off from the rest of downtown.

Andrew W.
Los Angeles, CA

1.0 star rating
2/25/2018

Row DTLA just strikes me as a good idea that is killed by terrible, terrible implementation. Walking around during peak the (window) shopping time, Saturday afternoon, I found a place that reminded me of what Downtown Los Angeles was like two decades ago: empty storefronts, deserted sidewalks, a few stores here and there locked up tight, a massive garage with almost no cars in it. It was the "28 Days Later" Downtown I thought we had banished for good. There are lots of promises of things to come in the windows and on signs, but I've seen those sorts of promises never materialize. My fear is that this development will sit stillborn for years.

Unlike the Ninth and Broadway cluster or the upper Arts District east of Little Tokyo, Row DTLA is completely internal, with no street presence. Even shopping spaces with similar problems - Macy's Plaza/The Bloc, 7th and Fig - have worked to increase their street visibility. Row DTLA just looks like derelict warehouses from the street; Angelenos associate the complex with American Apparel, a company that went famously, spectacularly bankrupt and closed, and the developers have left all that American Apparel signage up over a year after the company shut down as the first thing anyone sees. Most people would assume Row DTLA is an abandoned factory - why haven't the developers cleaned that up in the past year?

Getting to Row DTLA is a schlep for people coming from the Arts District venues on the other side of Alameda. Once inside, navigating it is more infuriating, walking long, sometimes desolate-looking rows to see what, if anything, is there (and if it's open). On my recent visit, very few things had come to fruition, and less than half of those that had were actually open: Scent Bar was closed up tight as a drum almost an hour before their advertised closing time. Everything between them and A+R was taking the weekend off. When I reached A+R, a very sweet but exasperated salesgirl informed me that DWP just arrived and shut off their power with no notice for repairs. Was this supposed to be a recreation destination? There was almost nothing to eat, drink, buy, or do at 4:15 on a Saturday afternoon!

One store owner explained to me the frustrations independent store owners are having here: The only day that has any traffic is Sundays when the flood of food trucks arrives. People come in, flock to the food trucks, Instagram their food, and leave, not stopping into the stores. No one can even keep employees because they do nothing all day, get bored, and quit. Even when Tartine Manufactory eventually opens ("We're hoping it opens by the end of this year," another Row DTLA worker said to me), the worry some have is visitors will do just like they do with the food trucks - make a beeline for Tartine, eat, and leave.

I feel for these stores that really look like they're hanging on by their fingernails. A lot of them are way behind schedule in opening (most notably Tartine). But there just isn't anything much to pull people to Row DTLA right now, it's developing much too slowly, and when Dover Street Market opens on the opposite side of Alameda, Row DTLA will have lost its chance to have become the Arts District's commercial center of gravity. I wish Row DTLA the best of luck - if things keep going this way, everyone there is gonna need it...

Marc R.
Comment from Marc R. of ROW DTLA
Business Owner
2/26/2018 Andrew,

I read your review and honestly a lot of it in February of 2018 is fair. ROW DTLA is a nearly 2 million SF project that will have 5,000 to 6,000 office users on campus every day when fully leased. In addition, there will be about 75 retail and restaurants ranging from grab and go to fine dining sit down eateries. Not to mention, numerous work out facilities.

ROW DTLA is opening in phases and is certainly is a long term project for ownership. We have new stores and restaurants opening every month. Ownership is extremely committed to our valued retailers who have opened their doors during this growth period.

I assure you that ROW DTLA is slowly becoming a destinational landmark in Los Angeles. I encourage you to come back and visit us and please go to our website at ROWDTLA.com to check for store and restaurant openings.

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Atlas Capital Group



Atlas Capital Group


^ this has been off my radar since I'm generally not as interested in the eastern half of dt as I am about the western half. The areas out towards the LA river also are a bit too too sketchy for my tastes. But I hope that side of dt still becomes better, successful.....although I don't want to see the artists chased out.

[BillinGlendaleCA]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I've been to the ROW before. It's a nice concept. The area is somewhat reminiscent of what the Dogpatch in SF used to be. It has potential, but what's up with the Disneyland style mega parking structure? Are there no plans for rail expansion in this area?

Most of the West Santa Ana Branch proposals have a station near 7th and Alameda.

[bhunsberger]

Went hiking in Griffith today. Kinda smoggy, but the skyline is looking great from this perspective. I love that Onni is visible!

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by ozone

Forget gondolas. They should just build a new Dodgers ballpark downtown close to a Metro station and develop the present site into housing.

Our land downtown is way too valuable for a baseball stadium. The current location is perfect, and a gondola enhances that and as was posted elsewhere hopefully some of the parking lots can become housing in the near future once it is installed.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Eightball

Our land downtown is way too valuable for a baseball stadium. The current location is perfect, and a gondola enhances that and as was posted elsewhere hopefully some of the parking lots can become housing in the near future once it is installed.

Not only that...anyone that’s a sports fan and especially a baseball fan knows how incredible Dodger Stadium is in the sports world. People come from far and near just to visit Dodger Stadium. It is an icon in baseball. Not to be rude, but anyone who says we should tear down Dodger Stadium, only shows the extreme ignorance they have of the game.

[Illithid Dude]

Dodger Stadium is an iconic stadium and I would hate to see it go.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by bhunsberger

I love that Onni is visible!

Each time I see images of the skyline & notice the ongoing changes, I find it hard to believe recent additions....such as the Onni tower....weren't visible in the past. Each time the dt skyline reaches a certain turning point & goes beyond it, it doesn't seem possible that it was as modest as it was 10 yrs ago, 15 yrs ago, 25 yrs ago, 40 yrs ago.

everyone in the world of cities is becoming increasingly jaded since new devlpt has occurred all over the map, from miami to nyc, from atlanta to SF, from san diego to seattle.

This is Recife, a city on the northeast coastline of brazil....a city that isn't even all that well known internationally...





^ based on places like that, no less will do for dtla in the present & future.



kcet

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Eightball

Our land downtown is way too valuable for a baseball stadium. The current location is perfect, and a gondola enhances that and as was posted elsewhere hopefully some of the parking lots can become housing in the near future once it is installed.

Originally Posted by scania

Not only that...anyone that’s a sports fan and especially a baseball fan knows how incredible Dodger Stadium is in the sports world. People come from far and near just to visit Dodger Stadium. It is an icon in baseball.

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Dodger Stadium is an iconic stadium and I would hate to see it go.

I agree with all of this. Dodger Stadium *is* iconic, and so is its location, which is unique to LA. Building a stadium downtown, and worse yet, a baseball stadium with retro-old-timey architecture, would make LA more like any other American city.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Personally, i would love a game day experience like Petco or Wrigley, where the surrounding neighborhood is full of bars and restaurants with fans. That isnt possible at the current Dodger stadium, so i would actually support a new stadium near the cornfields / union station, but barring that, i would love for the stretch of Sunset between DS and Downtown LA to have a few bars where fans can drink and walk to the games. With all the new development coming to the area (Aragon project thats replacing the car wash and shuttered do it center, as well as the mega project next to it) i think we can get a small version of that and it could be a cool experience.

I like the gondola idea but it needs to be able to handle much more than 5000 fans per hour. Gotta be double that. The current union station shuttle handles about that many fans per game and its not enough.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

I like the gondola idea but it needs to be able to handle much more than 5000 fans per hour. Gotta be double that. The current union station shuttle handles about that many fans per game and its not enough.

The thing about the gondola that people are forgetting with the capacity of 5,000 passengers per hour is that arrivals are going to be staggered. Some fans will choose to arrive an hour or more before the game to watch batting practice. Some fans may choose to arrive right at the start of the game. Other fans might arrive late-- in the third inning.

We live by Nationals Park in DC and fans arriving to the stadium on game days is staggered over several hours.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by scania

Not only that...anyone that’s a sports fan and especially a baseball fan knows how incredible Dodger Stadium is in the sports world. People come from far and near just to visit Dodger Stadium. It is an icon in baseball. Not to be rude, but anyone who says we should tear down Dodger Stadium, only shows the extreme ignorance they have of the game.

Haha anyone who would assume that just because someone suggests a new ballpark doesn’t know the history and importance of Dodgers Stadium and doesn’t know baseball shows a lot more extreme imo. It’s silly and childish. For the record I played Little League as a kid and regularly went to Angels games and even spring training since my dad knew Gene Autry.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

The thing about the gondola that people are forgetting with the capacity of 5,000 passengers per hour is that arrivals are going to be staggered. Some fans will choose to arrive an hour or more before the game to watch batting practice. Some fans may choose to arrive right at the start of the game. Other fans might arrive late-- in the third inning.

We live by Nationals Park in DC and fans arriving to the stadium on game days is staggered over several hours.

Honestly, im more worried about after the game. Dodger Stadium holds 55,000 and the Dodgers average 47,500 a game... Thats a lot of people and even if 15% decide to take the gondola then thats almost 2 hours for those people to leave.

In my opinion, we need the gondola to be able to handle about 10,000 an hour, need a dedicated lane only for bus and ride share in AND out of DS from Union Station and then were talking.

[bzcat]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

The thing about the gondola that people are forgetting with the capacity of 5,000 passengers per hour is that arrivals are going to be staggered. Some fans will choose to arrive an hour or more before the game to watch batting practice. Some fans may choose to arrive right at the start of the game. Other fans might arrive late-- in the third inning.

We live by Nationals Park in DC and fans arriving to the stadium on game days is staggered over several hours.

Arrival may be staggered but most people leave at the same time.

And based on the experience with Dodger shuttle bus, we know even with staggered arrival, the gondola will likely be overwhelmed during peak arrival time - like the hour before first pitch. Never mind the end of the game crush load.

The gondola going up the hill to Dodger Stadium is a cute idea that started off as a joke on another internet forum. The fact that parking lot baron Frank McCourt of all people is now behind it gives me pause.

Gondola works great when there is steady flow of people throughout the day. It doesn't handled peak demands very well because you can't add capacity very easily. It's one thing if McCourt eventually want to develop his parking lots and wants direct access to public transit to his future developments (and it is supposed to be privately funded so I have no problem there). But if this is build solely to service Dodger games, it will not be a successful standalone service. Not enough people to use it when there is no game, and not enough capacity when ALL the people want to use it. I just don't want to see it fail and somehow Metro or the City end up having to bail it out or something.

[scania]

Originally Posted by ozone

Haha anyone who would assume that just because someone suggests a new ballpark doesn’t know the history and importance of Dodgers Stadium and doesn’t know baseball shows a lot more extreme imo. It’s silly and childish. For the record I played Little League as a kid and regularly went to Angels games and even spring training since my dad knew Gene Autry.

Agree to disagree.

[Blesha13]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

I fully expect McCourt & company has more plans than the gondola. In a few years, part of the vast Dodger Stadium parking lot will probably be replaced with a few thousand units of apartments and condos. Possibly a few 20 story towers. Maybe they could use it as an Olympic Village for the '28 games? After converted to condos & apartments. Where else is there this much land to build on with such a view? The Dodgers are in town maybe 75 days a year. Have to have a reason to operate the gondola for the other 3/4 of the year. I fully support putting some housing & retail up there. There is a housing shortage after all. A few 20-30 story towers, even better. Dodger City. To make up for the lost parking, they can put in a parking structure or two. I hope the gondola has a stop in Chinatown which it will fly over.

Would love a little downtown up on Chavez Ravine, but I can't see McCourt up for this. The revenue is too good from the parking lots.

[ocman]

https://www.cntraveler.com/rca/vote?mbid=site_header_rca_promo

The Conde Nast Reader Survery is open for votes for 2018. Last year LA got among the worst scores of any city, so represent.

[112597jorge]

Dodger stadium is a Baseball Icon that should be left untouched. I support the idea of redeveloping the neighboring parking lots with residential and restaurant/bars with the future gondola service. If people want a downtown baseball stadium the best option would be having Angels build within the downtown freeway loop and make an urban ballpark (ideally modeled after LAs old wrigley field)

[Blesha13]

Originally Posted by 112597jorge

Dodger stadium is a Baseball Icon that should be left untouched. I support the idea of redeveloping the neighboring parking lots with residential and restaurant/bars with the future gondola service. If people want a downtown baseball stadium the best option would be having Angels build within the downtown freeway loop and make an urban ballpark (ideally modeled after LAs old wrigley field)

Angels can stay put in the OC, don't need them here.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Blesha13

Angels can stay put in the OC, don't need them here.

Hahahahaha