LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[destroycreate]

Is there any reason why metro stations don't make it extremely impossible to access the stations without a Metro card or ticket? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to safeguard themselves from fare evaders or fentanyl zombies? I can't even imagine how much revenue they lose out on to this.

[Busy Bee]

There are high-gate turnstiles and at least in theory an iron maiden style circular turnstile but agencies worldwide have long avoided creating fare control aesthetics that resemble a prison, high security perimter, border checkpoint etc.

[bzcat]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Is there any reason why metro stations don't make it extremely impossible to access the stations without a Metro card or ticket? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to safeguard themselves from fare evaders or fentanyl zombies? I can't even imagine how much revenue they lose out on to this.

It will cost money to secure Metro station like airports. Money we don't have

[sopas ej]

I read some time last year that LA Metro's operating budget was like close to 9 billion dollars or something, and fares only make up about 1 percent of their revenue, which formed the argument for fareless transit from some people.

I remember the "good old days" of like 10 years ago when I would ride Metro Rail and it seemed like there were often LASD deputies checking for proof of fare payment either on the trains themselves or on the platforms. That often got people kicked off the trains and then you would see them on the platforms with the deputies giving the fare evaders tickets. I haven't seen that in a long time.

I must say, though, that the deputies seemed to target people that looked a certain way (people who looked homeless, teenagers of color). It didn't happen too often but there were quite a number of times when I saw that they were checking for validated TAP cards, I took my TAP card out and they just waived me off. I didn't think that was fair. What if I didn't pay my fare?

[Nouvellecosse]

Not only the money and aesthetics aspects but you also have to ensure that any solution doesn't add too much time or inconvenience for paying riders. You don't want anything that would depress ridership or affect passenger flow at the station which would be an issue at some stations during busy times. As with any other filter, you only want it to filter out what you don't want getting through.

[craigs]

Draft EIR released for K Line's northern extension

Three routes are being considered, as well as a stop at the Hollywood Bowl

Steven Sharp
Urbanize LA
July 24, 2024



Metro has published a draft environmental study for the K Line's planned northern extension to Hollywood, revealing new design and cost details for the mega-project.

Three potential alignments are under consideration for the project, all of which would commence at the K Line's existing northern terminus at Expo/Crenshaw Station through the cities of Los Angeles and West Hollywood toward a terminus at Hollywood/Highland Station. Metro is also evaluating the possibility of constructing a station to serve the Hollywood Bowl. They include:

• San Vicente - Fairfax, which would run approximately 9.7 miles in length on Crenshaw, San Vicente, Fairfax, Beverly, Santa Monica and Highland, featuring nine new stations and an end-to-end travel time for this option of approximately 19 minutes;
• Fairfax, which would run approximately 7.9 miles along Crenshaw, San Vicente, Fairfax, Santa Monica, and Highland, adding seven new stations with a 15-minute end-to-end trip;
• La Brea, which would extend 6.2 miles up Crenshaw, San Vicente, and La Brea with six stations and a 12-minute end-to-end trip;

All options would be located fully underground and require an expansion of the Division 16 vehicle maintenance and storage facility in Westchester. Likewise, each is designed to potentially accommodate one additional station which would serve the Hollywood Bowl.
. . . .

[caligrad]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Is there any reason why metro stations don't make it extremely impossible to access the stations without a Metro card or ticket? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to safeguard themselves from fare evaders or fentanyl zombies? I can't even imagine how much revenue they lose out on to this.

Would be costly but easy to do with maybe the Red and purple lines, maybe even the green. But. All the other lines that are at grade, would require heavy construction and years of delays with how slow things get done in this city.

Whats the point of securing the subways if the all the fare evaders and zombies have to do is hop on from another train at the 7th street station.

[LAsam]

Light rail straight from El Segundo to the Hollywood Bowl! Would be a dream come true.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by LAsam

Light rail straight from El Segundo to the Hollywood Bowl! Would be a dream come true.

Yeah, whichever alignment they pick (I like the San Vicente-Fairfax alignment because it has three subway stations on Santa Monica Bl.) they should include the Hollywood Bowl.

[numble]

Originally Posted by craigs

Yeah, whichever alignment they pick (I like the San Vicente-Fairfax alignment because it has three subway stations on Santa Monica Bl.) they should include the Hollywood Bowl.

Everything from what Metro has published indicates they are very unlikely to build the Hollywood Bowl option, which would be an extra mile built for an estimated 300 daily riders, in rocky geography that their traditional soft-soil TBMs cannot handle, and passing through an earthquake fault zone which requires expensive mitigation measures.

[homebucket]

I'm not familiar with the pros/cons of each alignment, but just looking at the map, from an outside perspective, I think I'd actually favor the La Brea Alignment. The San Vicente-Fairfax Alignment while it serves West Hollywood better in the short term, might actually prevent future expansion, or at least make it more complicated.

A direct route up La Brea makes sense, because it allows room for a roughly parallel La Cienega north-south line, which would roughly split the difference between the Sepulveda Line and this K Line Northern Extension. Then you can add a separate, dedicated Santa Monica Blvd east-west line, connecting West Hollywood with Santa Monica.

[homebucket]

Here's a rough sketch of what it might look like at full build out.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I read some time last year that LA Metro's operating budget was like close to 9 billion dollars or something, and fares only make up about 1 percent of their revenue, which formed the argument for fareless transit from some people.

I remember the "good old days" of like 10 years ago when I would ride Metro Rail and it seemed like there were often LASD deputies checking for proof of fare payment either on the trains themselves or on the platforms. That often got people kicked off the trains and then you would see them on the platforms with the deputies giving the fare evaders tickets. I haven't seen that in a long time.

I must say, though, that the deputies seemed to target people that looked a certain way (people who looked homeless, teenagers of color). It didn't happen too often but there were quite a number of times when I saw that they were checking for validated TAP cards, I took my TAP card out and they just waived me off. I didn't think that was fair. What if I didn't pay my fare?

Its not about fair, its about targeting the people that typically dont pay. It only makes sense.

Metro is now adding tap to exit at the end of line metro stations. They had a pilot at the North Hollywood station and it cut fare evasion drastically and improved safety and cleanliness. Talk about a no shit sherlock moment but at least they are now adding this to more stations

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Its not about fair, its about targeting the people that typically dont pay. It only makes sense.

Saying, "It's not about fair" is the same as saying, "It doesn't matter that it's unfair because treating people unfairly is a more convenient way of achieving a particular goal."

Well sure, being unfair to people is often easier and more convenient. It makes sense from a purely functional perspective, but profiling subjects people to extra inconvenience, scrutiny, and embarrassment based on their appearance when no one should have a poorer experience with public services if they - as individuals - haven't done anything wrong. Looking similar in some way to someone else who did something wrong is not the same as doing something wrong yourself.

Remember, the purpose of fare checks isn't to catch all the fare evaders; it's to show that there's a chance one could be caught and thus discourage people from taking the risk.

[SoCalKid]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Here's a rough sketch of what it might look like at full build out.

This would be awesome, but Metro pretty much closed the door on a Santa Monica Blvd line by shutting down the possibility of a rail spur on the K Line Northern Extension that would allow for Santa Monica Blvd rail.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

This would be awesome, but Metro pretty much closed the door on a Santa Monica Blvd line by shutting down the possibility of a rail spur on the K Line Northern Extension that would allow for Santa Monica Blvd rail.

Rail spur would make it LRT. A line like that should prob be HRT anyway. I favor the Fairfax option. Fairfax is a much more important street than La Brea, even if in a perfect world we would have metro lines down La Brea, La Cienaga, and Fairfax.

[LAsam]

Originally Posted by numble

Everything from what Metro has published indicates they are very unlikely to build the Hollywood Bowl option, which would be an extra mile built for an estimated 300 daily riders, in rocky geography that their traditional soft-soil TBMs cannot handle, and passing through an earthquake fault zone which requires expensive mitigation measures.

Oh, I'm fine walking from Hollywood/Highland to the Bowl. That's where I usually park for concerts.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Rail spur would make it LRT. A line like that should prob be HRT anyway. I favor the Fairfax option. Fairfax is a much more important street than La Brea, even if in a perfect world we would have metro lines down La Brea, La Cienaga, and Fairfax.

Yeah, the Fairfax is a bonafide destination--The Grove, the Farmer's Market, CBS Television City, Canter's, Pan Pacific Park, etc.

[biguc]

I love this thread. It's great to see LA building so much.

I know LA is an expansive city but what's with the giant gaps between stops? Are there plans for infill stations later? It'll be hard to build ridership when the system ignores half the areas it runs under.

Only sort of related but that gap between North Hollywood and Universal must feel interminable for riders.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I'm not familiar with the pros/cons of each alignment, but just looking at the map, from an outside perspective, I think I'd actually favor the La Brea Alignment. The San Vicente-Fairfax Alignment while it serves West Hollywood better in the short term, might actually prevent future expansion, or at least make it more complicated.

A direct route up La Brea makes sense, because it allows room for a roughly parallel La Cienega north-south line, which would roughly split the difference between the Sepulveda Line and this K Line Northern Extension. Then you can add a separate, dedicated Santa Monica Blvd east-west line, connecting West Hollywood with Santa Monica.

Alternatively, I don't get why they aren't pushing for building two of these as one phase, i.e. Labrea + West Hollywood. I get that having services split and then come back together raises the likelihood of service delays, but it's not as if this thing is going to be running on 90 second headways.

Another option would be to have through service split but to also have one train run in a loop in each direction inside the spit section. This would require flying crossovers but they should be building those anyway.