Sports in Canadian culture

[suburbanite]

I'm not as in-tune with the community because I've always been most interested in the GMing aspect of sports which lends itself better to pro leagues that don't cycle out players every few years.

My CHL fandom is much more focused on the on-ice product which is relaxing compared to how invested I am in the big Toronto teams.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

All I will say on this is that the CFL seems to get more respect from the NFL (and also from many American football fans) than it does from many so-called football fans here in Canada.

Often, well-intentioned, open-minded Americans are taken aback by the hostility that some Canadians display vis-à-vis the CFL.

I think I've mentioned before but I've both witnessed and heard of Canadians adamantly try and talk Americans/overseas people out of attending a CFL game, when these people were curious and really wanted to go.

In one case I am talking about pretty serious verbal arm-twisting in a tourist office, literally budding in to the conversation I (as an employee) was having with a tourist who had asked me for info on tickets and how to get to the stadium.

I mean... really?

Based on my experience, this can be attributed to an indoctrinated love of the game in the US which hockey is for Canada. I know more than my share of so called fans in Canada. They care more for the circus surrounding the NFL and which doesn't exist with the CFL than the actual game being played. I don't think the embarrassed by the homegrown product stereotype applies. The CFL's focus simply doesn't interest them. For Americans, any football at any age or level is worth its weight.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by esquire

He is so all-in on the Toronto-as-a-sports-loser narrative that he refuses to recognize the legitimacy of those banners. They might as well be Toronto Marlies divisional title banners for all they matter to him...

Look at this bunch of incompetent small timers... someone should have told them they were wasting their time!

I actually find it funny that Toronto is proud to display those banners as they did win those championships in a league with only 6 teams, yet a majority of those people completely write off the CFL as small time cause it “only has 9 teams”

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Based on my experience, this can be attributed to an indoctrinated love of the game in the US which hockey is for Canada. I know more than my share of so called fans in Canada. They care more for the circus surrounding the NFL and which doesn't exist with the CFL than the actual game being played. I don't think the embarrassed by the homegrown product stereotype applies. The CFL's focus simply doesn't interest them. For Americans, any football at any age or level is worth its weight.

In terms of NFL only/anti CFL Canadians I think that is often the case but they don't see things that way. Just think of how many people think dud games like the last Super Bowl are epic titanic struggles.

It is like when some people pick a religion, regardless of the reality, in their minds it is not about fancy costumes and compelling storytelling.

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I actually find it funny that Toronto is proud to display those banners as they did win those championships in a league with only 6 teams, yet a majority of those people completely write off the CFL as small time cause it “only has 9 teams”

I write it off because the vast majority of the players in CFL couldn't cut it in the NFL and would rather be there. I know there are some differences in NFL vs CFL gameplay that lends itself to a certain style of player but they aren't very dramatic.

The Original Six NHL teams were best on best, a super league of sorts. Imagine the talent NHL teams would possess nowadays if there were only six teams. There are some differences of course such as Europeans weren't in the NHL back then but still.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

I write it off because the vast majority of the players in CFL couldn't cut it in the NFL and would rather be there. I know there are some differences in NFL vs CFL gameplay that lends itself to a certain style of player but they aren't very dramatic.

I won't argue the fact that the NFL by and large is a superior league, but the differences in the CFL game do lend themselves to smaller and more agile players who might have tremendous skill, but for simple rules of anatomy and physiology would not be able to make it down south. These players might actually be more skilled than some players in the NFL, but simply can't play down there because they would get killed on the field by all the 350 lb linebackers.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I actually find it funny that Toronto is proud to display those banners as they did win those championships in a league with only 6 teams, yet a majority of those people completely write off the CFL as small time cause it “only has 9 teams”

The owners of the team are the ones displaying the banners, not actual Leafs fans. And it's done today mostly to honor the history of the franchise and not really as a display that they were the best those years - even though that's what it also shows.

You don't see many Leaf fans bragging about winning a cup in 1967. Most know that it's not that huge of an achievement and most fans were either too young to remember it or weren't even born yet.

Not sure why people are comparing leagues in 2019 with a league from over 50 years ago. It was a much different time/era - things change. It's like stating your smartphone today is just as good as any other by comparing it to phones in the 60's. If the NHL, NBA, MLB or NFL reduced the amount of teams to 9 teams today - you'd see the same criticisms there.

[esquire]

^ It's funny you say that because a NHL reduced to 9 teams would be amazing (notwithstanding the inconvenient fact that Winnipeg would almost certainly lose its team in that scenario)... the quality of play would probably be phenomenal. Lots of top-6 forwards and top-4 dmen today would be permanently relegated to the AHL.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

I write it off because the vast majority of the players in CFL couldn't cut it in the NFL and would rather be there. I know there are some differences in NFL vs CFL gameplay that lends itself to a certain style of player but they aren't very dramatic.

The Original Six NHL teams were best on best, a super league of sorts. Imagine the talent NHL teams would possess nowadays if there were only six teams. There are some differences of course such as Europeans weren't in the NHL back then but still.

Even if CFL players are by-and-large not as good at football as NFL players, it doesn't mean the league is unwatchable and worthy of no attention whatsoever, let alone outright hostility.

I get only wanting to watch the best (I have a hard time watching CHL for the same reason), but I feel differently when you don't have a "best" team in your city. If I live in Vancouver and have the Lions, why would I choose to cheer for Green Bay instead? At least exclusively.

Others before have brought up the example of soccer countries where they'll follow both their domestic league and the European championship. No reason that couldn't happen here. Same way that while MonctonRad has season tickets to the Wildcats, there's a decent chance he has an NHL team he cheers for too.

The only reason I can think of is it's hard to be a sports fan alone. So much of sports is being able to discuss it with others, and go through the ups and downs together. I've tried watching UBC sports before for example, but it's so hard to care when no one else does, and it feels forced. I can imagine there are some lonely potentially-CFL-watching souls like that out there too.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We can and do debate whether that's good or bad, or perhaps with or without consequence, but that's not the discussion we're having right now.

What we're talking about is why Canadians (not just Torontonians BTW) treat success by a club team that has no Canadians on it, similarly to a victory in a bona fide international competition by a representative national team (say, at the FIFA World Cup) made up of players born and raised in the country.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with this either. It's just out of the ordinary and IMO, makes for an interesting (armchair) case study.

It might be interesting to people who aren't aware of how unique Canada's history is, but on this forum it's been beaten to death. I'm not sure why you keep poking at this hobby horse of yours, to be honest. The sparse population of Loyalists retreating to our side in 1776 have been overshadowed culturally by the massive juggernaut to the south of us ever since. It's not rocket science.

The excitement is purely organic, and I don't think the explanation is all that complicated. No Canadian sports team has ever had a chance of success at this high a level before. People in Athens and Kathmandu will be watching. They don't watch Olympic hockey or curling. The epic nature of what is at stake here is palpable. Yes, this speaks to a yearning of Canadians for gravitas, something that we hosers have never had. The Americans drop nuclear bombs on Japan, invent rock-n-roll and walk on the moon, and they're our cousins. They're right next door and speak the same language. It would be bizarre if we weren't comparing ourselves to them. Who in Canada looks wistfully at that special potato dish the Macedonians have that Greeks like to make fun of and thinks, "gee, we should emulate that in our own way so that we can be more distinct from Americans"?

I'll tell you who: top-down-thinking bureaucrats and cultural mavens. Not people on the ground, who are refusing to scratch their chins and turn their noses up at NBA basketball as a foreign intrusion.

Which is not to say that Toronto wouldn't go absolutely bonkers if the Leafs won the Cup, because it absolutely would. But the perception that we've been waiting since 1993 for a championship is real. The Raptors averaged 19,824 spectators over 41 games this season. The Argos averaged 14,210 over 9 games in 2018. The Raptors playoff run is on a different level. Why fight it if you like basketball, or even you don't care about it all that much, but all your friends are getting together to watch the games and it's kinda fun?

Life's too short to care about liking what you're supposed to like when it comes to entertainment.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Berklon

You don't see many Leaf fans bragging about winning a cup in 1967. Most know that it's not that huge of an achievement and most fans were either too young to remember it or weren't even born yet.

On the other hand, Montreal fans are only too happy to tell you how many Cups they have won, O6 era notwithstanding lol

[suburbanite]

Montreal four-peated in the late 70's when there were 18 teams in the league. Parity was obviously still nowhere near what it is today though.

[Djeffery]

CFL takes control of Allouettes.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5341003/c...tes-ownership/

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Berklon

You don't see many Leaf fans bragging about winning a cup in 1967. Most know that it's not that huge of an achievement and most fans were either too young to remember it or weren't even born yet.

Leafs fans don't brag about 1967 because it was a lifetime ago, and it would only underscore the utter lack of success that they've had since. I've never heard anyone talk about a perceived lack of prestige regarding the original 6 era because there were fewer teams. Who says that?

If anything, with the talent less diluted you could argue that the original 6 era was tougher to win. New York, Chicago and Boston hardly won at all, and Detroit only won a few cups.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Leafs fans don't brag about 1967 because it was a lifetime ago, and it would only underscore the utter lack of success that they've had since. I've never heard anyone talk about a perceived lack of prestige regarding the original 6 era because there were fewer teams. Who says that?

People who chastise Leafs fans if they mention being second place in cups as a measure of success. My original comment as well. I like learning about the history of the team and how the game was played back then, but I would certainly place more weight on cups won in the post-salary cap era than those 50 years ago.

If anything, with the talent less diluted you could argue that the original 6 era was tougher to win. New York, Chicago and Boston hardly won at all, and Detroit only won a few cups.Te

Teams had monopolies on recruiting within their geographic areas. It wasn't some hyper-competitive league with balanced super teams. It was basically Montreal, Toronto, and maybe Detroit >>>>>> everyone else.

Not too mention the Blackhawks were owned by the same group as the Red Wings and were basically operated as their farm team. They never even had a chance to field a competitive team for a long time.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Teams had monopolies on recruiting within their geographic areas. It wasn't some hyper-competitive league with balanced super teams. It was basically Montreal, Toronto, and maybe Detroit >>>>>> everyone else.

Exactly.
I'll just quote wikipedia:

It was not a coincidence that two of the dominant teams were based in Canada, and the third was based in a U.S. city which borders Canada. The league had a rule that gave each team exclusive rights to negotiate contracts with promising local players within 50 miles of its home ice. If a player was not within the 50-mile limit, that player was free to field offers from any team.[3] Once a player agreed to an NHL sponsorship-level contract, the NHL club could assign him to its sponsored junior squad – its "sponsorship list".

Since Toronto and Montreal's metropolitan areas contained abundant hockey prospects, this put them at a major recruiting advantage over Boston, New York, and Chicago, which had very few such prospects in their territories. Detroit had Southwestern Ontario as part of its territory; thus it did not have the major advantage of the Canadian teams but was better positioned than the other American ones.

So only 6 teams, of which 3 had an unfair advantage that made a HUGE difference. The O6 era was neat from a historical perspective, but it really doesn't hold much weight when it comes to franchise success.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Berklon

So only 6 teams, of which 3 had an unfair advantage that made a HUGE difference. The O6 era was neat from a historical perspective, but it really doesn't hold much weight when it comes to franchise success.

It's interesting to look at a team like the Rangers. They typically only make a cup final every 20 years or so in the post-war O6, expansion, and salary cap eras:

1950: Lost SCF
1972: Lost SCF
1979: Lost SCF
1994: Won SCF
2014: Lost SCF

It always fascinates me what the NHL/NBA would be like if their NY franchises weren't completely useless 95% of the time.

For a team that's existed for 90 years the Rangers have only won one Cup after WWII. Pretty insane. Chicago was in the same boat until they won three in the last decade, including one Cup final in 50 years. That's the nice thing about St. Louis making the SCF this year - they're a team that's existed for 50+ years and never once got a sniff; that market deserves it. Minnesota is more or less in the same boat at this point.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by JHikka

That's the nice thing about St. Louis making the SCF this year - they're a team that's existed for 50+ years and never once got a sniff; that market deserves it.

They actually made the finals the first three years the NHL expanded in '68, '69 and '70 (swept in all 3 series).
Of course it wasn't as big an accomplishment to make the finals for them as when the NHL expanded the O6 teams were put in their own division - and the 6 expansion teams were put in the other division. They were just the best of the worst teams.

[logan5]

Though the country is buzzing with excitement over the Toronto Raptors’ spot in the NBA Finals, watching the game isn’t as easy as turning on the television for some young Torontonians.

Some said access to live sports has gotten trickier in recent years as the number of millennials who subscribe to cable — or even own TVs — plummets. Instead of watching the Raptors play the Golden State Warriors from the comfort of their homes, fans are flocking to bars and restaurants, or to Jurassic Park outside of the Scotiabank Arena.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...rwhelming.html

Watching sports on TV has never been better, so I can't imagine being a Raptors (or any other pro team) fan, or trying to become one without being able to watch at home on a big screen in HD. With more and more people relying on streaming services maybe it's time to see if teams can offer game package on some of these services. Especially if you are trying to connect with young fans, like the CFL is. I wonder how many young people actually have access to TSN. I bet not nearly enough for the CFL's liking. When the next TV contract is up maybe we will see more options for where CFL content can be viewed.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by logan5

https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...rwhelming.html

Watching sports on TV has never been better, so I can't imagine being a Raptors (or any other pro team) fan, or trying to become one without being able to watch at home on a big screen in HD. With more and more people relying on streaming services maybe it's time to see if teams can offer game package on some of these services. Especially if you are trying to connect with young fans, like the CFL is. I wonder how many young people actually have access to TSN. I bet not nearly enough for the CFL's liking. When the next TV contract is up maybe we will see more options for where CFL content can be viewed.

Both Sportsnet and TSN have mobile subscription plans that allow you to watch content without a TV package. The problem is all these various sports and movie plans that people can subscribe to avoid a TV package end up costing more than just having a TV package.