NEW YORK | HDSN (418 11th Ave) | FT | 70 & 40 FLOORS

[NYguy]

As far as the Peebles design, we need to see more of it, and from different angles. Actually, we need to see all of the proposals. If I recall correctly, last time around there were 6 or seven bids.

Anyway, this latest design set at 1,380 ft (I'm sure it would change a little), compares almost exactly heightwise to:

Hudson Yards site B: 1,376 ft

Bus Terminal Tower A: 1,346 ft

270 Park Avenue: 1,389 ft


I really want more variety, heightwise. Get me to 1,500 ft, at least, on the west side.




I do like the base from the park side. It needs more work, but I feel it has a little 175 Park action going on...

[Busy Bee]

Looks cheap. Looks like Dubai or Baku or something. It looks like 175 Park in a bad video game.

[Xing Lin]

I really like this KATO design, mostly for the fact that it tapers much more gracefully for its Hudson Yards context than the other proposals. Peebles' first proposal by David Adjaye was a cool design in an unfitting location, and their latest Rem Koolhaas design is just clumsy.

However, this KATO design is just an architects' vision without any developer (and thus financing) attached, and unfortunately probably won't win the RFP.

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KATO is a group of architects, engineers, designers, and researchers which creates projects of significant social impact. In every project, we are concerned with greater questions about how to empower entire regions, rather than only address the immediate needs for one building. We then complete comprehensive research to understand the complexities of the places where we will build. Through this, we discover what our greatest opportunities will be, so our designs can be informed by these parameters. Our projects span a wide range of scales and typologies, from single classroom schools to large urban projects.

In addition to our role as design architect, we have been responsible for delivering the projects currently under construction, including construction documents and administration.

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[MAC123]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

^Me too, and at 1,380' it's still tall enough to be a signature tower.

No it's not. By the time it's built you'll barely notice it from most angle besides the side with Javits. HY Phase 2 will overshadow this site at that height, not to mention the PABT plans down the road and if they ever plan to do anything significant around Penn Station.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I don't really see a coherent or perceptible concept in this new proposal. Where is the bold architectural gesture? It's just sort of a generic tapering supertall, like you asked ai to design a tower. Shitload of minor almost unnoticeable setbacks, a weird cathedral thing in its center, strange window fenestration and balconies gag... The height slaps but the rest of it is forgettable. It looks like a relatively unknown Chinese city's pride and joy.


I can see why people are stroking it over this new one, but in my book the updated Peebles concept is superior design wise.


___

What?????? That other design is literally just a straight glass tower with a weird indent. You would have to physically try to get more basic.

[Mulan]

New York desperately needs affordable housing, but why don't one put this on the agenda? We haven't moved a step forward since September 2023. But it fits very well with the neighborhood of vacant and underutilized Hudson Yards properties. If the current governor is voted out, then hopefully the RFP could be rescinded. And with a proper master plan to redevelop the entire vacant lots, or even a new Javits Center (megatall potential my opinion).

New York needs a new very tall skyscraper with a minimum height of 1700 feet in the next few years.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by MAC123

What?????? That other design is literally just a straight glass tower with a weird indent. You would have to physically try to get more basic.

Ever hear of Less Is More ?

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Ever hear of Less Is More ?

In this case I don't think it is. I actually prefer Central Park Tower over that 418 11th design. That weird indent just throws it all off.

[Xing Lin]

I'm a big fan of simple designs, but that OMA-Peebles design's 'statement piece' is just inelegantly jammed into the design. If Peebles is set on having OMA design the tower, I hope they eventually revise it into something more elegant like their 425 Park proposal:

[Busy Bee]

Different strokes for different folks.

Seems they have a knack for pitching "either you love it or you hate it" proposals. Is there a Cybertruck connection?

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

It looks like a relatively unknown Chinese city's pride and joy.

It kinda looks like the Citimark Center in Shenzhen



Also, is the below Peeble's latest design or a different one? This may be my favorite and also has better height at 1,500+.

___

[Crawford]

That's the latest iteration of the Peebles tower.

It would be nice if the Gov. finally got moving on the roughly billion projects she has just needlessly stalled, waiting endlessly for her decision. Penn Station expansion, MSG, 418 11th, the empty SUNY block that could generate a supertall near Lincoln Center, congestion pricing, casinos, transit to airports, etc. etc. It really sucks. Does she ever decide on anything?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It would be nice if the Gov. finally got moving on the roughly billion projects she has just needlessly stalled, waiting endlessly for her decision. Penn Station expansion, MSG, 418 11th, the empty SUNY block that could generate a supertall near Lincoln Center, congestion pricing, casinos, transit to airports, etc. etc. It really sucks. Does she ever decide on anything?

Yeah, she decides to not decide anything, leaving everything in limbo. I mean, seriously speaking, there is no reason for inaction on this bid. But it’s just as outrageous that the much larger 34th St site hasn’t even been put up for bid yet. So much for her being big on getting affordable housing built. And where are those idiots from the community board who are screaming about the decreased luxury housing over the railyards? They should be making noise over the delay on these 2 sites, dangled as carrots by Cuomo for more housing. Nothing has been done since. But we know that’s because they are perfectly fine with nothing being done. They only lie about needing more housing when it fits their narrative. Shameful.

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That's the latest iteration of the Peebles tower.

It would be nice if the Gov. finally got moving on the roughly billion projects she has just needlessly stalled, waiting endlessly for her decision. Penn Station expansion, MSG, 418 11th, the empty SUNY block that could generate a supertall near Lincoln Center, congestion pricing, casinos, transit to airports, etc. etc. It really sucks. Does she ever decide on anything?

Originally Posted by NYguy

Yeah, she decides to not decide anything, leaving everything in limbo. I mean, seriously speaking, there is no reason for inaction on this bid. But it’s just as outrageous that the much larger 34th St site hasn’t even been put up for bid yet. So much for her being big on getting affordable housing built. And where are those idiots from the community board who are screaming about the decreased luxury housing over the railyards? They should be making noise over the delay on these 2 sites, dangled as carrots by Cuomo for more housing. Nothing has been done since. But we know that’s because they are perfectly fine with nothing being done. They only lie about needing more housing when it fits their narrative. Shameful.

Ugggh, makes my blood boil! When is the fastest we can hopefully get rid of her? A year?

I'm hoping a slew of these decisions are made after the November election this year., but not holding my breath with her.

[bdurk]

I really like this design. I think it looks great. Add a nice lighting scheme at night to the top of it and I'm all in

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by streetscaper

Ugggh, makes my blood boil! When is the fastest we can hopefully get rid of her? A year?

I'm hoping a slew of these decisions are made after the November election this year., but not holding my breath with her.

I honestly have no idea why she can't make a decision. On anything. This development in particular was rebooted because she wanted the affordable housing component. She got it last year. From multiple bids. It makes no sense that a decision hasn't been made. The governor may be put off by the heights of these proposals, because she knows the NIMBYs won't care about the affordable housing if there's a supertall tower connected to it. This is where I think her not being from the city hurts her decision making. You can't appease everybody. Somebody's always going to be disgruntled. That's fine, they'll live with it. Make a decision and move on.

[NYguy]

We have a winner….


https://www.crainsnewyork.com/real-estate/huge-residential-tower-rise-near-javits-center

Huge residential tower to rise near Javits Center


Dec 19, 2024
EDDIE SMALL

A massive residential development with almost 1,400 homes, along with a 455-room hotel and a museum devoted to climate change, is heading to Manhattan's Far West Side, Gov. Kathy Hochul's office announced Thursday afternoon.

A partnership of BXP (formerly known as Boston Properties), BRP Cos., The Moinian Group and Urbane Development will construct the $1.35 billion project at 418 11th Ave. between West 35th and West 36th streets near the Jacob Javits Convention Center, according to the Hochul administration, which put out a request for proposals for the state-owned site in July of last year. The joint venture the state selected is known as the Hudson Boulevard Collective, and the project itself will be called HDSN (pronounced "Hudson").

The project will include 1,349 residential units in a 72-story tower, 404 of which, or 30%, will be permanently affordable. The affordable units will be scattered throughout the building, and area median income levels will range from 60% to 130%, or about $93,000 to $202,000 for a family of four. Sizes will range from studios to three-bedrooms, all of which will have in-unit washers and dryers, along with central heating and cooling.

The project will also include a 28-story hotel with 455 rooms. Amenities such as meeting rooms, a fitness center and a rooftop that overlooks the Hudson River will be designed to support the nearby Javits Center.

HDSN will have a 5-story structure as well, anchored by a 24,000-square-foot Climate Museum that will occupy three floors and focus on climate change and climate solutions. The nonprofit Emma's Torch will also occupy 4,000 square feet for a restaurant and training facility that will provide training and job placement help for refugees, asylum seekers and human trafficking survivors. It will include a Life Time fitness center spanning 60,300 square feet and an outdoor swimming pool as well.

The development team also plans to improve lighting and construct new seating areas in the surrounding neighborhood, among other landscaping efforts.
An Empire State Development subsidiary will sponsor the plan, which will need to go through an environmental review and public comment period before its final approval. It was not immediately clear what costs the state would cover versus what costs the developers would cover.

The project will be the first in the city to take advantage of a zoning reform from the housing deal in this year's state budget that allows developers to build projects with a residential floor area ratio higher than 12, Hochul's office said. This essentially lets developers include more residences in their projects.
Identifying state-owned sites that can be used for housing has been a major priority for Hochul, and the 11th Avenue parcel, known as Site K of the Javits Center, is one of the last remaining parcels the state owns in Manhattan

[NYguy]

A little more…..


https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/advanci...ounces-deal-create-nearly-1400-new-homes

Advancing Housing Opportunities: Governor Hochul Announces Deal to Create Nearly 1,400 New Homes with 404 Permanently Affordable Units on Manhattan's Far West Side
HDSN To Be the First Housing Development in New York City To Exceed 12 Floor Area Ratio in Over 60 Years


Dec 19, 2024

-$1.35 Billion Mixed-Use Project To Be Developed by Minority-Owned Business Partnership ‘Hudson Boulevard Collective’ Following Competitive Selection

-Proposed Development Will Also Feature Permanent Home of Nonprofit Climate Museum and Hotel To Support New York’s Busiest Convention Center at Javits

…..Following an exhaustive competitive procurement process, the proposed development HDSN, pronounced "Hudson", would create 1,349 residential units, including 404 permanently affordable homes, across from the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center. The ongoing construction plan is phased to prioritize the residential component and expedite the delivery of much-needed housing. This project marks a significant step forward in increasing the supply of housing to address New York's housing crisis while creating a vibrant new destination on Manhattan's Far West Side.

"This transformative development embodies our vision for New York's future — creating affordable homes, advancing our climate goals and generating economic opportunity for all New Yorkers. By utilizing the new residential density provisions we secured in last year's budget, HDSN demonstrates how smart policy changes can unlock substantial affordable housing developments," Governor Hochul said. "This project is an example of how thoughtful development can tackle our housing crisis while building vibrant, inclusive communities. New York is once again leading the way in showing what is possible when we think boldly about our cities' future."

As one of the last remaining state-owned parcels in Manhattan, Governor Hochul made housing — and the creation of affordable residential units — a top priority for 418 Eleventh Avenue's future use. Under the Governor’s leadership, Empire State Development reissued a Request for Proposals in July 2023 that reflected both the surrounding community’s interests and advanced the state’s housing and economic development goals. Led by ESD’s professional real estate, legal, and procurement teams, the competitive review process included a comprehensive analysis of each proposal and interviews with all qualified respondents. The construction of housing with an emphasis on maximizing the number of affordable units was the primary consideration for awarding this project. Selection criteria also included each development teams’ experience and financial strength and their proposals’ commitment to building community space and facilities, streetscape improvements, and ability to generate new economic activity to support the Javits Center with high-quality lodging.

The 72-story East Tower of HDSN will deliver one of the largest mixed-income housing developments in the neighborhood. Of its 1,349 residential units, 30 percent — 404 apartments — will be permanently affordable, ensuring long-term housing stability for hundreds of New York families across different income levels. The affordable component includes units for middle-income New Yorkers earning up to 130 percent of Area Median Income (AMI) and workforce housing for those earning an average of 60 percent AMI. The affordable units will be integrated throughout the building, and residents provided equal access to all amenities. The residential unit mix includes studios, one-bedroom, two-bedroom, and three-bedroom units, all featuring in-unit washers and dryers as well as central heating and cooling.

The 28-story West Tower will strengthen New York City's convention and tourism infrastructure with a flagship hotel development. The tower will feature a 455-room full-service hotel, providing accommodations across multiple price points. The hotel component includes amenities designed to support the Javits Center's operations, including ballroom space, meeting rooms, pre-function areas, food and beverage venues, flexible informal meeting spaces, a fitness center, and outdoor amenities including a rooftop overlooking the Hudson River.

The development's five-story podium will establish a nexus of cultural, educational, and community facilities anchored by the permanent home of the Climate Museum, North America's leading museum dedicated to climate change and climate solutions. Occupying 24,000 square feet across three floors, it will feature exhibition spaces, an action center, and educational facilities. The museum will feature ClimateTech programming, hosted in partnership with NYSERDA to support entrepreneurs developing innovative climate solutions through manufacturing planning resources, mentorship programs, and workshop spaces.

The community hub will also advance workforce development and wellness initiatives through two key partnerships. Emma's Torch is slated to operate a 4,000-square-foot restaurant and training facility, providing paid culinary training and job placement services to refugees, asylees, and survivors of human trafficking through its intensive 10-week apprenticeship program. Complementing these facilities, a state-of-the-art 60,300-square-foot Life Time fitness and wellness center will provide comprehensive health and wellness programming across four floors, including an outdoor swimming pool and roof terrace, serving both residents and the broader community. Included in the building will be a 5,000-square-foot portion of the development reserved for future community programming options.

[ChiND]

This looks really nice.

P.S.: Is that supposed to be Moinian’s and BP’s proposed office tower in the rendering? If so, this looks like it’s at least 1,000’.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by ChiND

This looks really nice.

P.S.: Is that supposed to be Moinian’s and BP’s proposed office tower in the rendering? If so, this looks like it’s at least 1,000’.

It's just the angle I think, given the floor count (and accounting for the angle in the rendering) this is probably 8-900 feet at most.

I'm glad something could get built here and the design is alright but this is pretty disappointing scale wise, especially when we thought a ~1500+ footer was possible.