TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

Wait which one of my proposals? Replacing culverts with bridges and 4-landing the highway there?

Also I’ve always thought “pays plat” means flat country.

There are a few additional headaches though. A notable one will be Montreal Falls. People died there. In winter the road’s too slippery for anyone to pass.
Then there’s Kama Bay. There’s a huge piece of red table rock right next to the highway. I’ve looked at it for a while now. Initially I was thinking about doing a bypass around the 2 pieces of red table rocks and rejoining it east of Gravel River. Now I realized it would require blasting so much more rock that we would be better off just removing that one huge piece of table rock. Even then, that will require some extensive blasting.

Overall, it’ll be nice if MTO keeps the slopes on highway 17 at maximum 5%.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Wait which one of my proposals? Replacing culverts with bridges and 4-landing the highway there?

Yes. That proposal.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Also I’ve always thought “pays plat” means flat country.

There are a few additional headaches though. A notable one will be Montreal Falls. People died there.

People die everywhere.

Just last weekend, three people were killed with two more critically injured on Highway 12 in Port Perry in a single collision.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opp-port-perry-serious-crash-1.4853441

An additional three people were killed in a single collision at Highway 7 in Guelph Line:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/crash-rockwood-fatal-guelph-1.4853898

And those are just the collisions that made the news cycle that I'm aware of.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

In winter the road’s too slippery for anyone to pass.
Then there’s Kama Bay. There’s a huge piece of red table rock right next to the highway. I’ve looked at it for a while now. Initially I was thinking about doing a bypass around the 2 pieces of red table rocks and rejoining it east of Gravel River. Now I realized it would require blasting so much more rock that we would be better off just removing that one huge piece of table rock. Even then, that will require some extensive blasting.

Overall, it’ll be nice if MTO keeps the slopes on highway 17 at maximum 5%.

It's unrealistic to expect Highway 17 to be able to maintain a maximum 5% grade all of the time. The interstate system has grades in excess of 5%.

The MTO commissioned a study maybe a decade ago about realigning and by-passing the highway through Montreal River Hill. If memory serves me they considered realigning about 6 or 7km. The proposed realignment was kiboshed by local area mayors who were concerned about a drop in tourism that relocating that iconic section of highway could bring.
https://www.northernontariobusiness.com/...river-hill-nine-years-for-nothing-364162

[Dengler Avenue]

Just like how the council of Dryden rejected the bypass in 2003...
Is it possible to bring it back on the table though?

[sonysnob]

Anything is possible.

I think the City of Dryden is probably somewhat rightly concerned with the loss of business that could occur if Highway 17 was moved away from the city. Certainly the historic Downtown of Dryden isn't faring all that strongly.

I've always been surprised at the lack of development along Highway 17A near Kenora. For example, the intersection with Highway 658 seems like a great location for a truck stop, but there really aren't any gas stations that are located close to Highway 17A through there.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Anything is possible.

I think the City of Dryden is probably somewhat rightly concerned with the loss of business that could occur if Highway 17 was moved away from the city. Certainly the historic Downtown of Dryden isn't faring all that strongly.

I've always been surprised at the lack of development along Highway 17A near Kenora. For example, the intersection with Highway 658 seems like a great location for a truck stop, but there really aren't any gas stations that are located close to Highway 17A through there.

I was gonna bring that up too. In order to develop all that though, MTO probably needs to convert that intersection into an interchange where 17A runs atop with 4 lanes (so think 17/69 in Sudbury). It will be premature to develop that area right now because left-turn overflow will cause serious issues on 17A.

[Loco101]

Pays Plat = Flat Country

[Dengler Avenue]

C’est ce que je pensais.

But yea, for Kenora Bypass, we probably need to wait till the rest of MB 1 and the beginning 15 km of ON 17 is twinned.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Anything is possible.

I think the City of Dryden is probably somewhat rightly concerned with the loss of business that could occur if Highway 17 was moved away from the city. Certainly the historic Downtown of Dryden isn't faring all that strongly.

I've always been surprised at the lack of development along Highway 17A near Kenora. For example, the intersection with Highway 658 seems like a great location for a truck stop, but there really aren't any gas stations that are located close to Highway 17A through there.

Dryden is definitely more concerned about itself than about highway travellers and transports. I didn't remember Dryden being all that bad because it's a break from remote highway driving. I'm sure that a bypass will eventually be built.

[Dengler Avenue]

If the city’s that concerned, it seems possible to build the freeway in close proximity to the current alignment. It just needs to go along the rail tracks squished between Wabigoon and Thunder Lake. Previously some of us suggested an alignment around the NE side of Thunder Lake.

[sonysnob]

Bypassing Dryden with a freeway would save what? 5 minutes on a 7.5 hour drive between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg? Building the bypass probably isn't that consequential either way. It's probably of greater benefit to local traffic than it is for through traffic anyways.

[Dengler Avenue]

Why is it more beneficial for local traffic? So then drivers don’t have to be stressed about trucks wrecking havoc inside the city?

Ps: If Dryden bypass is a project, the project should also include Vermillion Bay bypass, Oxdrift bypass, Wabigoon bypass and finally Dinorwic bypass. If Sioux Lookout at the end of 72 ever becomes something big, we will even need a new alignment of that highway (edit: around Dinorwic) too. It wasn’t until a few days ago that I realized Highway 17 had been realigned there before.

Total time saved? Yea probably at most 10 minutes.

[sonysnob]

I say that it's probably most beneficial for local traffic because the amount of time saved becomes comparatively more significant for a shorter trip than a longer trip.

A five or even if it's a ten minute savings on 5 or 7.5 hour drive only results in a very small reduction in overall travel time.

A five or ten minute savings on a twenty minute or half an hour trip amounts to a much more significant reduction in time relative to the overall trip length.

[Dengler Avenue]

The biggest problem, though, is that Highway 17 is so weirdly shaped in the outskirt of Dryden that local traffic can only save so little.

Technically, Highway 17 doesn’t even go through the downtown core, but meanders on the city’s outskirt, so one would think that it shouldn’t be that built up, but that’s simply not the case.

[vid]

It used to, then they moved the highway and built shit on it, so they have to move it again, but they won't. Dryden is in extremely poor financial shape, moving the highway would be a massive hit to the town. Losing all those business plus having to maintain that stretch of road would hurt them considerably.

[Dengler Avenue]

That's why I proposed the bypass to follow the current alignment closely, so the businesses along the current 17 remain visible.

Honestly, whose idea was it to build up the bypass? If it was built around the same time as Thunder Bay Expressway, what's with the lack of foresight?

Alternative (more expensive, but I'm suggesting it just to appease Dryden): Tear down everything along Highway 17 and relocate all of them into a huge plaza at the interchange with Highway 601 (which leads to the airport).

[sonysnob]

Well, people need jobs. Dryden is a fairly small region who’s economy isn’t particularly diversified. Probably the businesses that line Hwy 17 make up a not insignificant portion of the local economy.

Dryden is also kind of a sensible stopping point for traffic anyways. Going west from Thunder Bay it’s the first time motorists can stop for a double-double or a Big Mac, and many people might be due to top off the fuel tank anyways.

[Dengler Avenue]

I gotta admit I'd stopped by Dryden to get gas (because I have a petro points card ) and chocolate milk (to go with my otherwise blend bread) before.

I still think it's better to gather all the businesses and relocate them to an interchange with the bypass, preferable the one that leads to the airport.

[vid]

It does essentially function as a rest area, it's the half-way point between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg, and the only decent rest area between the two cities if you're taking the Kenora By-Pass.

There really isn't a strong need for a by-pass. If we're going to spend a bunch of money on improving roads, I'd rather it go to something more useful than relocating Dryden's business districts. I don't think Dryden's airport is all that busy, either. Sioux Lookout is the regional air hub for the region between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay.

[Dengler Avenue]

Perhaps widen 17 (and 17A around Kenora) eastward past 105, and develop the business area around 17A/658 and around 17/105. See how that affects Dryden first.

The terrain isn't too bad eastward from VB anyway (except that hill west of 622). On the other hand, the stretch through Lake of the Woods needs serious improvement, IMO.

[sonysnob]

That hill west of 622 is currently being realigned. There moving about 3 or 4km of highway onto a new alignment where the current highway runs parallel to the Revelle Creek.