HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & Urban Ottawa


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #681  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2015, 11:53 PM
Mikeed Mikeed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 376
Wow- that Sun news piece eh,

Someone was clearly asked to write a piece to get the public hyped and onside before the 15, of am I just too cynical??
__________________
Long time reader.
Seldom post.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #682  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 12:32 AM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Citizen reporting both proposals will have an arena
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-redevelopment
Both proposals for LeBreton Flats redevelopment include NHL-calibre arena

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 15, 2015 | Last Updated: December 15, 2015 7:21 PM EST


The Ottawa Senators will play in a new downtown arena if the National Capital Commission accepts either of the two development proposals for LeBreton Flats submitted Tuesday.

An arena has always been at the centre of the proposal by Rendez Vous LeBreton, which includes Senators Sports & Entertainment, the company that owns Ottawa’s NHL team.

The only other team to file a detailed development plan by Tuesday’s deadline, DCDLS Group – formerly Devcore Group – had originally proposed multiple cultural institutions around a grande allée as its anchor attraction.

But a source with knowledge of the proposals said the DCDLS Group’s proposal has evolved, and also includes “an NHL-calibre arena” as well as cultural elements.

“It looks like the Sens can move downtown no matter what,” the source said.

The NCC invited four private-sector teams last February to develop detailed proposals for the development of a primary 9.3-hectare parcel of land across from the war museum and, if required, an optional 12.3-hectare parcel to the west.

NCC spokesman Nick Galletti said the other two pre-qualified teams – Claridge Homes and Focus Equities – gave no reasons for not submitting proposals.

Neil Malhotra, vice-president of Claridge Homes, declined to comment Tuesday on his company’s decision not to submit a proposal and officials from Victoria-based Focus Equities didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Only one of the two remaining teams was speaking at all on Tuesday. The Senators were silent, but Jean-Pierre Poulin, who owns Devcore – the Gatineau company that heads the revamped DCDLS Group – said it was “quite a surprise” that only two teams submitted proposals.

“I think it’s going to be very exciting for Ottawa and very exciting for Canada as well,” said Poulin, who admitted to being exhausted. “We’ve worked around the clock for four days. It’s a big project, so we’re tired today.”

Poulin said his team, which had included Montreal developer Broccolini, has acquired some new partners since February, but said confidentiality provisions imposed by the NCC prevented him from saying more for now.

He characterized his team as the underdog in the competition with Senators-led Rendez Vous LeBreton. “It’s like David and Goliath, and I’m the David, I’m the little guy,” he joked.

The Senators’ current arena, Canadian Tire Centre, opened nearly 19 years ago and will be at least 25 years old by the time a new downtown arena could be built. If the team were to remain there, it would require expensive repairs.

A downtown arena appeals to Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk because it would be located on the city’s light rail transit line, eliminating the current crawl to Kanata along the Queensway. As well, its central location would make it easier to draw fans from Gatineau and Ottawa’s east end.

In its 52-page Request for Proposals, made public Tuesday, the NCC says demonstrating a proposal’s financial viability is “paramount” and submissions will be evaluated accordingly. Indeed, such things as the market rationale, ownership, financial capacity and business terms account for just over half of the 140-point evaluation process.

Achieving design excellence is another key objective, the NCC says. It is seeking a “memorable capital landmark” of the “highest quality of architecture and sustainable design.”

If the proposals by the two finalists fall short in those or other areas, it’s not inconceivable that the NCC could accept neither.

Asked for her reaction Tuesday, Catherine McKenna, the minister of the environment and MP for Ottawa Centre, said she hadn’t seen the proposals yet.

Because LeBreton Flats is the last big piece of undeveloped public land in the city core, she said, “we have to really think about what’s going to be put there.

“What I’ve always been very focused on is public consultation. I want to hear from the public and hear what they have to say.”

The NCC will spend the next few weeks reviewing the two submissions to determine if they meet the RFP’s mandatory requirements. If they do, they’ll be presented at a public consultation on Jan. 26 and 27 at the Canadian War Museum.

Until then, neither team can speak publicly about their proposals under the NCC’s confidentiality requirements. They can only speak to their proposals during the January public consultation. The prohibition on disclosure of information will be imposed again at 11:59 p.m. on Jan. 28 and will remain in force until cabinet has selected a winning proposal.

The strict information controls are necessary to maintain the integrity of the process, the NCC’s Galletti said.

“Because we want to ensure that this process is done in the most fair way possible, we want each proponent to have the same amount of opportunity to present their projects to the public,” he said.

“If we don’t do it that way, it’s going to be basically whoever gets the most media attention is going to be able to sell their case early. And we don’t want that to happen,” Galletti said.

“We’re trying to make sure that we’re giving the public the best chance to have a complete picture of everything so they can make as much comment as they can without putting the fairness of the process at risk.”

Also on Tuesday, the NCC released an interim report by P1 Consulting, which was hired by the NCC to act as a “fairness monitor” for the LeBreton process.

“At this point in time, the principles of fairness, openness and consistency have, in our opinion, been maintained,” the report says. “Furthermore, no issues emerged during the process, of which we were aware, that would impair the fairness of this initiative.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-redevelopment
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #683  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 5:49 AM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
Busy Beaver
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwy418 View Post
The Sens mean a lot more to this city than people realize. The direct economic spin-offs are huge.
I'm not denying the economic impact, I'm reacting to the Sun article stating that "the reality is it was after this city got awarded an NHL hockey team that it really landed on the international stage." News flash, very few people follow the NHL outside of North America. Europeans might watch it like the minority here that are into European football; Asians and Africans hardly at all.

If NHL hockey was really that enlightening in the "international stage", why is it that most fans are ignorant of the fact that the Stanley Cup actually originated in Ottawa and bears the name of a Governor General of Canada?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #684  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 7:23 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,200
With LeBreton, the choice shouldn't be between two similar plans

Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 16, 2015 | Last Updated: December 16, 2015 11:33 AM EST


Maybe it’s time to admit that we’re stumped when it comes to figuring out what to put on LeBreton Flats. More than a decade ago, the National Capital Commission’s last big competition to develop the land resulted in one bid and an unremarkable condo development. The most recent effort has produced two bids, but they’re both for the same thing.

The NCC is shooting for “a memorable capital landmark” that has the “highest quality of architecture and sustainable design.” It’s difficult to see how a hockey rink will fulfill those lofty goals. Given that NHL rinks consist of a slab of ice surrounded by a bowl of seats, the opportunities for landmark architecture would seem rather limited.

It’s not difficult to see why finding something appropriate for LeBreton has become such a challenge. Government has been unwilling to make the obvious move and build a new science museum on LeBreton. That leaves us with a hockey rink as something arguably better than more condos.

The problem is that a rink hardly fits the area’s theme of big federal institutions. The rink is purely an Ottawa facility that has no value whatsoever to other Canadians. The NCC likes to talk about the national interest. There is no national interest in helping the Ottawa Senators get a better rink, no matter how popular that might be locally.

Ottawans seem to think that having a rink downtown is definitely the way to go, but what’s the real case for it? It’s not as if this is all about bringing hockey to the capital. We did that. The arguments in favour of the downtown rink are strictly utilitarian. A centrally-located rink would be easier for Orléans residents to access and convenient for the limited population of downtown. Building new would also be cheaper for the Senators than repairing the Canadian Tire Centre, we are told.

On the other hand, the downtown location would be worse for people in the west end and helping Senators’ ownership save capital expense really isn’t the taxpayers’ problem.

Speaking of taxpayers, the main thing to watch for when the public is allowed a brief glimpse of the proponents’ plans next month is how much public money will go into the downtown rink proposals. The answer should be none, but with public land involved, it might be tough to identify just where the subsidy comes in.

NHL owners generally expect government support when they build rinks. Ottawa was the exception. Private sector money built our rink, as it should.

It’s easy to get excited about the idea of new rink downtown, one that we could reach by using rail transit, just like people in big cities do. It’s generous to describe LeBreton as being part of downtown, though. The flats are on the edge of a fairly sterile downtown business district. The real restaurant and bar action, the stuff that should surround an arena, is all over on Elgin or in the Market. It’s pretty optimistic to think a new rink would spawn yet another bar and restaurant district, especially when you consider how many nights of the year the facility is closed and how pricey the rents are likely to be.

The public consultation associated with this plan is a joke. Some level of detail will be revealed to us for two days, then it’s off to cabinet for a decision. Cabinet, where Ottawa is represented by one rookie MP.

This isn’t some kind of secret new missile system. It’s a major facility in our city. People here should have the right to a full and informed discussion. The choice being offered to us is really no choice at all. Do we want Rink A or Rink B? All assuming the Senators are even willing to move if someone else is building the arena.

The real issue for the public should be whether either of these downtown rink plans makes sense, not which similar plan is better.

Randall Denley is an Ottawa commentator, novelist and former Ontario PC candidate.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/col...-similar-plans
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #685  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 8:10 PM
eemy's Avatar
eemy eemy is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,456
There are only so many federal institutions to go around and sometimes there are important local or regional institutions that need a suitable location too. Since the NCC owns pretty much every vacant plot of land in the city, they'll just have to come to terms with the fact that not every single one of them can be nationally significant.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #686  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 8:30 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,789
^Wow, who shit in this guy's cornflakes this morning?

The reality is, or at least I'm hoping that the proposals are not going to be simply "an arena" but an entire "entertainment district" - see what Edmonton is doing with the ICE district or what Toronto has in their Entertainment district (including the Rogers Centre, CN tower, Ripley's believe it or not aquarium etc...). There is lots of potential.

Simply plopping a new Science & Tech museum wouldn't fill the void or gap which is Lebreton Flats; heck, there is already a "national museum" right there, but the area itself is still dead and empty. What are the other options? Leave it blank? Award it to current builder Claridge to finish off in 50 years (because condos alone are definitely "for all Canadians" right?)

I hope the proposals don't simply include an arena, but an architecturally interesting arena, large public spaces and plazas, shopping/restaurant/entertainment, residential, hotel, maybe a Stanley Cup statue?, a new office for the NHL organization making Lebreton Flats the "Sports Hockey Headquarters", some cultural/tourist attractions, etc...
The proposals shouldn't just rest on the arena but have a bunch of things complementing each other. And so what if we have restaurants on Elgin and in the market already? Does that mean we shouldn't open new ones anywhere else? Landsowne has opened and is doing just fine as a new sports/entertainment destination. As the Ottawa population grows, and we add another 5, 10, 15K residents in the area (Lebreton + Bayview + Zibi), all these people will want places to eat and shop and not everyone will want to treck across downtown to the east Market...

Rant over... Excited for Jan XX when the proposals will finally be made public
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #687  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 10:24 PM
phil235's Avatar
phil235 phil235 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
^Wow, who shit in this guy's cornflakes this morning?

The reality is, or at least I'm hoping that the proposals are not going to be simply "an arena" but an entire "entertainment district" - see what Edmonton is doing with the ICE district or what Toronto has in their Entertainment district (including the Rogers Centre, CN tower, Ripley's believe it or not aquarium etc...). There is lots of potential.

Simply plopping a new Science & Tech museum wouldn't fill the void or gap which is Lebreton Flats; heck, there is already a "national museum" right there, but the area itself is still dead and empty. What are the other options? Leave it blank? Award it to current builder Claridge to finish off in 50 years (because condos alone are definitely "for all Canadians" right?)

I hope the proposals don't simply include an arena, but an architecturally interesting arena, large public spaces and plazas, shopping/restaurant/entertainment, residential, hotel, maybe a Stanley Cup statue?, a new office for the NHL organization making Lebreton Flats the "Sports Hockey Headquarters", some cultural/tourist attractions, etc...
The proposals shouldn't just rest on the arena but have a bunch of things complementing each other. And so what if we have restaurants on Elgin and in the market already? Does that mean we shouldn't open new ones anywhere else? Landsowne has opened and is doing just fine as a new sports/entertainment destination. As the Ottawa population grows, and we add another 5, 10, 15K residents in the area (Lebreton + Bayview + Zibi), all these people will want places to eat and shop and not everyone will want to treck across downtown to the east Market...

Rant over... Excited for Jan XX when the proposals will finally be made public
This is classic Denley. Writing a takedown based on partial facts and half truths. Suggesting that a downtown rink will make it easier for Orleans people, but not west enders. It's not exactly a net neutral plan. His comment conveniently leaves out the 600,000 people in the middle of the greenbelt, almost all of whom will be better served by a central location.

He doesn't even know what the proposals are, so how can he be questioning their value. How about waiting to see what is proposed before chiming in? Perhaps there will be an element of national significance in the proposals. After all, that's what the RFP called for.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #688  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 11:24 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,200
Two LeBreton proposals, both with a hockey arena, are 'hugely disappointing'

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 16, 2015 | Last Updated: December 16, 2015 5:57 PM EST


Proposals for redeveloping LeBreton Flats need to show more imagination than building a hockey arena, says the city councillor who represents the ward.

“We asked the (private) sector to come back and give us their best to create vision for the last big piece of public land in downtown Ottawa, the capital of Canada. And you get to choose between two hockey arenas. It’s hugely disappointing,” said Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney.

“We have a blank slate. Let’s do something exciting.”

Four development teams were shortlisted by the NCC last February to present ideas, but only two submitted final proposals: Rendez Vous LeBreton, which includes Senators Sports & Entertainment, and DCDLS Group, formerly Devcore Group. Both proposals offer an NHL-calibre arena as their centrepiece.

Speaking to reporters Wednesday after meeting with area Liberal MPs, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson said he was ” hoping there would be the four bidders. It would give different visions for what LeBreton would look like.”

Ottawa Centre MP Catherine McKenna added that LeBreton is “a key piece of land. As the mayor said, it would be great to see a broad range of options.”

Both Watson and McKenna said they have little information about the two proposals or why the other two bidders, Claridge Homes and Focus Equities, dropped out.

There’s all kinds of reasons why locating an NHL arena downtown would be a good idea, including the proximity of public transit and the rejuvenating effect it would have on the area, said McKenney. But as NCC land, LeBreton belongs to all Canadians, she argued.

“Hockey arenas are exclusive, not inclusive. Aside from breathing, everything costs money,” she said. “A lot of people want a downtown arena (but) I just don’t think this is place for it.”

McKenney suggests public uses could include greenspace or a major cultural institution such as a museum. But she also believes affordable housing should be in the mix. The LeBreton Flats were expropriated in the 1960s to make way for redevelopment including government offices and an entire working class district was displaced by demolition. The redevelopment plan never went ahead because the soil was contaminated. Offering some affordable housing on the site is an obligation, said McKenney.

“It’s the last chance we have to do it right.”

Watson reiterated that there will be no city funding for an arena. “I’ve indicated that we don’t have the capacity and we wouldn’t ’t put tax dollars into a private enterprise.”

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-disappointing
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #689  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 1:48 AM
Nepean Nepean is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
^Wow, who shit in this guy's cornflakes this morning?

The reality is, or at least I'm hoping that the proposals are not going to be simply "an arena" but an entire "entertainment district" - see what Edmonton is doing with the ICE district or what Toronto has in their Entertainment district (including the Rogers Centre, CN tower, Ripley's believe it or not aquarium etc...). There is lots of potential. . . .

SNIP
I am going to play devil's advocate here. While I would love to have the Senators play downtown, and think that a hockey arena in Lebreton would do a lot of good for the city, I also think that Randall Denley makes some good points.

First, it is legitimate to question why public money should be used to cover the capital costs of a private hockey team. Second, the public consultations are a joke. For all practical purposes the public will have almost no input, as the two-day "consultations" seem more like a way to check a box than to get real input. Finally, it is fair to ask whether we could build something better than a hockey arena at Lebreton. I was looking forward to seeing multiple visions for this new development; what we are going to get instead, it seems, are two bids of basically the same thing.

Again, I would be OK with the Sens moving to Lebreton, and I think this would be great for the city. Yet it's also fair to ask if the city could do better than moving our NHL arena downtown.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #690  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 2:08 AM
eemy's Avatar
eemy eemy is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,456
The problem is that the government isn't willing to commit to fund something nationally significant. A new Museum of Science and Technology would have been perfect and would come at precisely the right time. Without funding for projects like that, though, you're left with parks and monuments, which, frankly, Ottawa already has in spades to the point that we're left with options like Victims of Communism, which is laughable and pathetic.

Part of making a capital the entire nation can be proud of is making a city that the nation can be proud of, and there is more to building a city than museums and monuments.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #691  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 12:45 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,200
Senators 'in the catbird seat' in battle of LeBreton Flats arenas

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 16, 2015 | Last Updated: December 16, 2015 7:13 PM EST


The Ottawa Senators are sitting pretty, even if the National Capital Commission ultimately chooses a competing plan for a new downtown arena instead of the NHL team’s proposal, say experts in the business of sports.

“I think the Senators are probably in the catbird seat here,” said Anthony Church, director of the School of Sports Administration at Laurentian University. “I think the arena needs the Sens more than the Sens need a new arena.”

Only two of four private-sector teams submitted development proposals for 9.3 hectares of land on LeBreton Flats – Rendez Vous LeBreton, which includes Senators Sports & Entertainment, and the DCDLS Group, led by Gatineau-based Devore.

Unexpectedly, both proposals include NHL-sized arenas along with supporting residential and commercial development, raising questions about whether the economics would line up if the Senators had to play in a downtown arena they didn’t own.

The team owns its current building, the 19-year-old Canadian Tire Centre, which provides a stream of non-hockey revenues that likely wouldn’t be available to them as tenants.

No problem, say experts approached by the Citizen. The Senators are in a strong position to negotiate favourable terms if the DCDLS Group wins the competition. (The NCC is not obliged to accept either bid.)

“The Senators would definitely have leverage in any negotiation with the eventual owner,” Church said. “They don’t have to worry about a downtown arena being filled by someone else.”

The arena is only viable if it has a major tenant, noted Brent Dowdall, a Conference Board of Canada executive who has studied the economics of professional sports. In Ottawa, that would have to be the Senators, he said. “I can’t fathom anything else.”

Brad Humphreys, an expert in the economics of sports who formerly taught at the University of Alberta, said it’s possible the Senators could make as much money as tenants as they would as owners.

“It depends on what kind of sweetheart lease you can get,” said Humphreys, now an economics professor at West Virginia University. “It’s possible that you can get a very, very lucrative lease arrangement. They’d have a lot of bargaining power with (DCDLS Group) because they need them.”

Having to negotiate with another owner wouldn’t necessarily be a deal-breaker, agreed Dan Mason, a professor of sports management at the University of Alberta.

“Obviously, their preference would be to do themselves,” Mason said. “But it would really depend on the nature of the arrangement between the parties.”

If the Senators were able to strike a contractual relationship with the DCDLS Group that secured their long-term viability as a franchise, they may not need to own the arena or participate in the development of the surrounding lands on LeBreton Flats, he said.

It’s not unheard of for a team to be a tenant in a facility operated by another for-profit company, Humphreys said. “It just introduces complications. Teams want to have input on what these facilities look like in the design process.”

Being a tenant rather than an owner “would mean the team would not have full control over what that arena looks like,” he said. If the Senators are serious about moving downtown, “I would imagine that the team is not very happy about a competing proposal.”

According to Dowdall, related real estate development – something the LeBreton project offers – has become a key element in the financing of new arenas and stadiums.

That sort of development helped pay for the makeover of TD Place at Lansdowne Park, the Winnipeg Blue Bombers’ new stadium and the new home of the Edmonton Oilers, now under construction.

“Ownership of the arena itself is important for a franchise, but ownership, or at least the ability to tap into, the surrounding real estate development is even more crucial,” Dowdall said. “That’s definitely a trend we’re seeing, that it’s about the real estate and the location.”

“In a perfect world,” said Mason, “you’d have a privately financed facility where the private sector would be reaping the benefits associated with the surrounding development. That’s where they would be making the money. So the anchor tenant could almost be like a loss leader.”

Consider the deal struck by the New York Islanders when the NHL team moved this year to the new Barclays Center in Brooklyn, Mason said. The arena is part of a large real estate development known as Pacific Park on 8.9 hectares of land – approximately the same size as the parcel on LeBreton Flats.

Rather than paying rent to play at the Barclays Center, the Islanders are receiving a flat fee – reportedly $50 million a year – from the project’s developer. In return, the Barclays Center gets all the revenue from the sale of tickets and suites, sponsorships, marketing and promotions.

It makes sense for the Senators to move to a new downtown arena, said Humphreys. About 15 years ago, there was a revolution in the way architects designed arenas, including features that are difficult to add to an existing arena. Those new design features make modern arenas “cash cows compared to a 20-year-old arena,” he said.

All other things being equal, Ottawa is better off with the Senators, and the Senators would be better off playing downtown, Mason said.

“If there’s a way to leverage that fact to develop some lands in the downtown that have not been developed, there’s an opportunity for a win-win across the board here.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ts-arena-story
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #692  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 2:07 PM
silvergate's Avatar
silvergate silvergate is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Two LeBreton proposals, both with a hockey arena, are 'hugely disappointing'

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 16, 2015 | Last Updated: December 16, 2015 5:57 PM EST


Proposals for redeveloping LeBreton Flats need to show more imagination than building a hockey arena, says the city councillor who represents the ward.

“We asked the (private) sector to come back and give us their best to create vision for the last big piece of public land in downtown Ottawa, the capital of Canada. And you get to choose between two hockey arenas. It’s hugely disappointing,” said Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney.

“We have a blank slate. Let’s do something exciting.”

Four development teams were shortlisted by the NCC last February to present ideas, but only two submitted final proposals: Rendez Vous LeBreton, which includes Senators Sports & Entertainment, and DCDLS Group, formerly Devcore Group. Both proposals offer an NHL-calibre arena as their centrepiece.

Speaking to reporters Wednesday after meeting with area Liberal MPs, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson said he was ” hoping there would be the four bidders. It would give different visions for what LeBreton would look like.”

Ottawa Centre MP Catherine McKenna added that LeBreton is “a key piece of land. As the mayor said, it would be great to see a broad range of options.”

Both Watson and McKenna said they have little information about the two proposals or why the other two bidders, Claridge Homes and Focus Equities, dropped out.

There’s all kinds of reasons why locating an NHL arena downtown would be a good idea, including the proximity of public transit and the rejuvenating effect it would have on the area, said McKenney. But as NCC land, LeBreton belongs to all Canadians, she argued.

“Hockey arenas are exclusive, not inclusive. Aside from breathing, everything costs money,” she said. “A lot of people want a downtown arena (but) I just don’t think this is place for it.”

McKenney suggests public uses could include greenspace or a major cultural institution such as a museum. But she also believes affordable housing should be in the mix. The LeBreton Flats were expropriated in the 1960s to make way for redevelopment including government offices and an entire working class district was displaced by demolition. The redevelopment plan never went ahead because the soil was contaminated. Offering some affordable housing on the site is an obligation, said McKenney.

“It’s the last chance we have to do it right.”

Watson reiterated that there will be no city funding for an arena. “I’ve indicated that we don’t have the capacity and we wouldn’t ’t put tax dollars into a private enterprise.”

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-disappointing
McKenna was on cbc this morning, her argument was for building the arena on private land at Bayview or on Albert, because we need "public" (inexpensive?) land uses like a concert hall or a museum, and especially a lot of nationally significant Greenspace. She came off as unprepared to defend those comments, citing a hockey rink as to exclusive on price while saying there should be another thing people pay for. And they didn't even talk about living there, If you think a 100$ hockey ticket is bad try paying 300,000$ for a "condo for all Canadians"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #693  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 2:37 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,636
I share the frustration that only two proposals were received (and those two proposals are quite similar) but I think the cold hard truth is that this is what is available without public money. If the Mayor or Minister want something different then they have to dip into the treasury.

There is lots of precedent for this sort of thing, Rideau Centre, World Exchange, Lansdowne.

Clearly the timing at the end of a construction cycle isn't ideal. 10 years ago proposals may have been made including a convention centre, football stadium, large shopping mall, movie theatre, etc., but the Convention Centre is done, Lansdowne is done, the retail sector has undergone massive expansion (and is probably over-capacity), and all of the cultural institutions have undergone recent/ongoing renovations/expansion, so an arena is pretty much what is left.

Personally, I think the arena is better than other ideas put forward so far. It can be used for much more than hockey: political conventions, musical and other cultural performances, public gatherings (keeping funeral, we day) and could support existing festivals such as winterlude, bluesfest, Canada Day, etc.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #694  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 3:06 PM
ortelius ortelius is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 89
It seems she hasn't seen the proposals, maybe she should wait to see them first.
This is only part of LeBreton, there is a lot more land to the west too, let's not forget.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #695  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 4:23 PM
TheGoods TheGoods is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 309
Not sure why the disappointment, we had 4 bidders and knew what each was bringing forward, so what did we basically loose?

The RendezVous Lebreton Group, with which Windmill Developments is a partner, is proposing a new home for the NHL’s Ottawa Senators, as well as residential, commercial and green space.

Claridge is proposing indoor and outdoor concert venues and cultural enterprises, again with green space and residential and commercial development.

Devcore Group is planning multiple cultural institutions “developed around a grande allée,” along with green space and residential and commercial development.

Focus Equities is proposing to house the headquarters of an international institution, accompanied by cultural venues and the ubiquitous green space and residential and commercial development.

We lost Claridge bid that was proposing and indoor and outdoor concert venues with cultural enterprises. Based on Claridge history, I am happy that they are out because they would have proposed something and then replace it with a cheap alternative, so, we should be thankful, no loss here.

As for Focus equities, a HQ (wow, a large office building) of an international institutions with cultural venues. What, another small theater, a museum (not likely since they do not provide enough revenues). Maybe this could have been a small loss but we will never know and I’m guessing, if they did not bid it means that they could develop a plan for something significant to be able to make money.

So, we have the Sens and DCDLS (Devcore) and both have arenas and DCDLS will also have multiple cultural institutions and a grande allée.

It looks like the 2 best bid are left especially if there is no funding from provided by the tax payer, what do you expect that the private industry are going these magnificent cultural site and buildings out of the goodness of their heart. We can’t even get a decent replacement for the Science and Tech museum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #696  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 4:30 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,636
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoods View Post
Not sure why the disappointment, we had 4 bidders and knew what each was bringing forward, so what did we basically loose?
Competition, leverage, ability to incorporate different elements of different proposals, innovation, backup plan in case arena doesn't pan out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #697  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 6:15 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Both proposals for LeBreton Flats redevelopment include NHL-calibre arena

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 15, 2015 | Last Updated: December 15, 2015 7:21 PM EST


...Neil Malhotra, vice-president of Claridge Homes, declined to comment Tuesday on his company’s decision not to submit a proposal...

...Poulin said his team, which had included Montreal developer Broccolini, has acquired some new partners since February, but said confidentiality provisions imposed by the NCC prevented him from saying more for now....
As much as I would hate for this to happen, it's still possible that Claridge is in this thing. Jean-Pierre Poulin, who owns Devcore, noted that they had picked up some new partners. Claridge wouldn't comment.

But then again, I'm speaking just as ignorantly as Catherine McKenney was this morning on CBC radio. We all need to wait until the actual proposals are revealed before comparing them or dissing them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #698  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 6:34 PM
TheGoods TheGoods is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Competition, leverage, ability to incorporate different elements of different proposals, innovation, backup plan in case arena doesn't pan out.
All you need is two for competition especially when it is a sealed bid, I personally think that it will not change the outcome. The other item was Claridge which does the bait and switch, look at the Andaz building or what is currently at Lebreton Flats.

It not like they can peak at someone else bid and say, wow, look at that they are doing, we need to bet them, let's come up with something different.
If the process was open and had different steps with orals before choosing the winning bidder, then yes, I would say that would have an effect.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #699  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 6:36 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,200
Jimbo is disappointed too...

Quote:
Watson says he had hoped for more than two LeBreton bidders

Michael Woods, OBJ
Published on December 16, 2015


A day after only two groups submitted proposals to redevelop LeBreton Flats – both including arenas – Mayor Jim Watson said he was expecting more.

“I was hoping that there would be the four bidders that would give different visions for what LeBreton would look like,” he said after meeting with four local MPs at his office on Wednesday.

“I’m not sure why the other two bidders stepped back. … Hopefully we’ll get more of that information from the NCC.”

Environment Minister Catherine McKenna, the city’s representative at the cabinet table and the MP for Ottawa Centre, which includes LeBreton Flats, said she was due to meet with the NCC on Wednesday to get more details.

“This is a key piece of land, and I think as the mayor said, it would be great to see a broad range of options and consultations around those options,” she said.

“I want to understand how we’re going to move forward on this and what the plans are for public consultation."

Those plans, as they stand, are a two-day open house Jan. 26-27 to showcase the proposals, followed by a period of online feedback.

Watson also ruled out contributing city taxpayer money to a possible arena when asked about the matter.

“No. I’ve indicated that we don’t have the capacity and we would not put tax dollars into a private enterprise,” he said.

Many North American sports facilities in the past couple of decades have been built with the help of public money.

DCDLS Group and Rendez Vous LeBreton Group are the two finalists to redevelop the prime parcel of land just west of downtown. The latter includes the company that owns the Ottawa Senators and would see an arena built on the site.

DCDLS’s bid was originally said to include multiple cultural institutions, but now reportedly also includes an arena.

Two other groups that had been shortlisted last February did not submit proposals.

http://www.obj.ca/Local/City-Hall/20...eton-bidders/1
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #700  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2015, 6:43 PM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
We all need to wait until the actual proposals are revealed before comparing them or dissing them.
spoilsport.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & Urban Ottawa
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:23 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.