Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by phil235

Well, I did what I could - laid out what I think are good reasons to support the current proposal and suggested that you not resort to insults to make your points. This is your response. Thank you for that - very thoughtful.

Rather than stick around to receive the benefit of your lectures on what is in the public interest, I'm going to go ahead and retreat back to the sweet haven of the ignore button. Good luck with your consensus building.
T

Sadly the ignore button seems increasingly to be the only option. I would just like to commend you on your very well expressed comments in the previous post explaining your support of Lansdowne Live. I agree with them entirely.

[phil235]

Thanks. I find that there is far too much criticism of the plan based on a single issue, and far too little intelligent cost-benefit evaluation of the big picture.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

Sadly the ignore button seems increasingly to be the only option. I would just like to commend you on your very well expressed comments in the previous post explaining your support of Lansdowne Live. I agree with them entirely.

Ditto. Phil, good on ya for trying but jemartin is mentally retarded it seems. I especially like that you mentioned that not exactly a lot of people are out there wanting to develop it. Heck, City Council even stated that it was going to host a design competition before this whole thing got started, but NO ONE came forward with even so much as mild interest. Then, along came Lansdowne Live which has changed for the significantly better since its earliest phase and looks to actually make Lansdowne useful and fun again. Sure, it's not perfect but nothing ever is. The site has stagnated too long.

[AuxTown]

One more step closer!

from www.cfra.com

Council Approves Lansdowne Zoning Changes
Josh Pringle
Wednesday, September 22, 2010

The zoning changes for a redeveloped Lansdowne Park have been approved by the City of Ottawa.

The approved changes will permit the city to proceed with residential and commercial spaces at the Glebe Lot, and allow for taller buildings along Bank Street.

As part of the zoning package approved, Lansdowne Park’s heritage buildings, the Aberdeen Pavilion and the Horticulture Building, will be the focal point of the redeveloped site. The changes also wipe out Sylvia Holden Park.

Councillors rejected a bid from Councillor Clive Doucet to defer the decision until the heritage issues have been addressed.

The Stage 1 Site Plan for the Lansdowne Park project will be released in November.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Aw, so no more Sylvia Holden Park? They should keep that. Hell, they made a deal to keep that.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Aw, so no more Sylvia Holden Park? They should keep that. Hell, they made a deal to keep that.

I thought that was the case as well.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I thought that was the case as well.

It's the terminology that is confusing here. What residents commonly refer to as "Sylvia Holden Park" is actually designated the "Lansdowne Community Park" by the city. That is the part that is a traditional park, with the basketball courts, wading pool, baseball diamonds and children's play area. It is staying as is.

What was rezoned is only the strip of grass along Holmwood Ave between the roadway and the chain-link fence, plus the interlocking brick area at the corner of Bank and Holmwood.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by phil235

It's the terminology that is confusing here. What residents commonly refer to as "Sylvia Holden Park" is actually designated the "Lansdowne Community Park" by the city. That is the part that is a traditional park, with the basketball courts, wading pool, baseball diamonds and children's play area. It is staying as is.

What was rezoned is only the strip of grass along Holmwood Ave between the roadway and the chain-link fence, plus the interlocking brick area at the corner of Bank and Holmwood.

The location you refer to identified as 945 Bank Street is legally known as Sylvia Holden Commemorative Park. There is much dispute as to whether or not it continues down Holmwood. The long stretch on Holmwood has been commonly used for at least 20 years as a play area for the local children with beautiful grass and well established trees.

It will be up to the courts to decide since the matter is now before the Ontario Superior Court.

[c_speed3108]

Last Saturday before attending the University game, I got off the bus a couple stops early and did a neighbourhood walk-about and this park issue was one of things I scoped out.


The area with the baseball diamonds in the back near the canal is definitely a high value park. It is well developed and should be left as is. The were lots of kids and other people using it. I don't think there is too much dispute about this. It's only involvement seems to be the suggestion that it could be joined with the new greenspace rather than a big ugly fence between the two.


The area at the front seemed to me to be of about medium value. It is basically a little sorta gathering area. You could argue it should be kept, moved, or removed. This one seems debatable to me. It is a nice little area, but not exactly a block-buster when it comes to city parks.

The area along Holmwood so far as I could see is little more than an unused strip of land. It is hardly a park. There are drainage craters in Orleans (Fallingbrook area) that are 100 times more park like than this. The new green space at the back of Lansdowne (that appears in basically all proposals: Live, Conservancy, etc...) will be 1000 times better space than this strip of land. Frankly, this strip of land is really not worth fighting for. There was no one using it or anything. Everyone I saw was on the sidewalk. There was better green space beside the fire station really.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

The area along Holmwood so far as I could see is little more than an unused strip of land. It is hardly a park. There are drainage creators in Orleans (Fallingbrook area) that are 100 times more park like than this. The new green space at the back Lansdowne (that appears in basically all proposals (Live, Conservancy, etc...) will be 1000 times better space than this strip of land. Frankly, this strip of land is really not worth fighting for. There was no one using it or anything. Everyone I saw was on the sidewalk. There was better green space beside the fire station really.

The biggest loss on this strip would be the trees, but that alone should not be the deciding factor, as the new additional greenspace, as stated will far outweigh this loss. And jemartin, stop with this BS that this strip has been used for years by children playing bla bla bla. The only use for this strip of grass presently is dogs peeing and pooing on it plus the odd squirrel burying nuts for the winter. Surely dogowners will appreciate the new, bigger greenspace more, as will the squirrels! hahaha

This debate about the strip of green along Holmwood is a farce.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

There are drainage creators in Orleans (Fallingbrook area) that are 100 times more park like than this.

OT but is that what you call these things? Is the Apollo Crater in Fallingbrook an example of a drainage creator?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

Last Saturday before attending the University game, I got off the bus a couple stops early and did a neighbourhood walk-about and this park issue was one of things I scoped out.


The area with the baseball diamonds in the back near the canal is definitely a high value park. It is well developed and should be left as is. The were lots of kids and other people using it. I don't think there is too much dispute about this. It's only involvement seems to be the suggestion that it could be joined with the new greenspace rather than a big ugly fence between the two.


The area at the front seemed to me to be of about medium value. It is basically a little sorta gathering area. You could argue it should be kept, moved, or removed. This one seems debatable to me. It is a nice little area, but not exactly a block-buster when it comes to city parks.

The area along Holmwood so far as I could see is little more than an unused strip of land. It is hardly a park. There are drainage creators in Orleans (Fallingbrook area) that are 100 times more park like than this. The new green space at the back Lansdowne (that appears in basically all proposals (Live, Conservancy, etc...) will be 1000 times better space than this strip of land. Frankly, this strip of land is really not worth fighting for. There was no one using it or anything. Everyone I saw was on the sidewalk. There was better green space beside the fire station really.

I think that is a very accurate assessment. The small interlocked brick area wth benches on Bank is useful as you say. But many areas containing all of the same features are included in the plan, including a number of small courtyards facing Holmwood that would serve exactly the same purpose. In fact, the preliminary site design shows that many of the new squares will be considerably larger, nicer and definitely better protected from the traffic on Bank St. Of course they won't have the aesthetic advantage of being bordered by a parking lot as the current square is. But in any event, the bottom line is that whatever is being lost there will be replaced many times over.

The few people still raising loud objections have a growing credibility deficit in my opinion. They seem to think that they will be able to rally the community against this change based solely on technical arguments with the promise of court intervention, all made at the expense of common sense. I can't see that going well.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OT but is that what you call these things? Is the Apollo Crater in Fallingbrook an example of a drainage creator?

Well it is a great example of absent minded typing and spelling worsened by auto correction!

I meant drainage crator. I am not sure if this is the correct name but everyone calls them crators and they are definitely for drainage (they feed the falls along the Orleans escarpment) ...so

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

Well it is a great example of absent minded typing and spelling worsened by auto correction!

I meant drainage crator. I am not sure if this is the correct name but everyone calls them crators and they are definitely for drainage (they feed the falls along the Orleans escarpment) ...so

OK, thanks! I had never heard either term before (drainage creator or crater). In Gatineau they are called "bassins de rétention".

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by jemartin

It will be up to the courts to decide since the matter is now before the Ontario Superior Court.

Where do you get the money to persue these frivolous lawsuits?

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OK, thanks! I had never heard either term before (drainage creator or crater). In Gatineau they are called "bassins de rétention".

I suspect the technical term is probably stormwater bassins, but I am not a civil engineer so I can't say for sure.

[AuxTown]

This debate about the strip of green along Holmwood is a farce.

The biggest farce is Doucet claiming the loss of this tiny strip of green is the loss of what could have been "Ottawa's Stanley Park". Does he know how big Stanley Park is? Does he get that 95% of the people in Ottawa don't want to see Lansdowne turned into a grassland or forest? And does he realize that it will never be an old growth forest similar to the aforementioned park?

Just for reference, Stanley park is over 1000 acres in size with over 200 km of trails. It contains huge trees, many of which are over 100 years old. The park is bordered by water on 3 of 4 sides. How is this in any way relevant in the current Lansdowne proposal? We're talking about a land area bordered by medium-high density residential neighbourhoods on all sides and fronting on one of Ottawa's dedicated main streets. We already have the Experimental Farm, the Greenbelt, and Gatineau Park....I think we're ok for our nature walks. It's time to get out the insane stamp so we can properly label Doucet and his not-so-merry band of idiots (Friends of Lansdowne).

[reidjr]

[QUOTE=O-Town Hockey;4991308]The biggest farce is Doucet claiming the loss of this tiny strip of green is the loss of what could have been "Ottawa's Stanley Park". Does he know how big Stanley Park is? Does he get that 95% of the people in Ottawa don't want to see Lansdowne turned into a grassland or forest? And does he realize that it will never be an old growth forest similar to the aforementioned park?

Just for reference, Stanley park is over 1000 acres in size with over 200 km of trails. It contains huge trees, many of which are over 100 years old. The park is bordered by water on 3 of 4 sides. How is this in any way relevant in the current Lansdowne proposal? We're talking about a land area bordered by medium-high density residential neighbourhoods on all sides and fronting on one of Ottawa's dedicated main streets. We already have the Experimental Farm, the Greenbelt, and Gatineau Park....I think we're ok for our nature walks. It's time to get out the insane stamp so we can properly label Doucet and his not-so-merry band of idiots (Friends of Lansdowne).

[/QUOTE

One of my main issue is these people aginst landsdown claim the deal was soul sourced and they wanta open compeition.But that really is not true they want a park nothing else so how does that make once ounce of sense.In not so many words some are saying we don't want whats best for the city we want something we want nothing else thats it.My biggest rant is with some of these people say landsdown live would create to much traffic and would cost to much.Yet they flip around and say a park would draw more people.I have even heard some people call into cfra with these grand plans for landsdown turn it in to a oasis no matter the cost.Even today some council i forget who wants to by some land back from a devloper that would from my understanding $22 million just so some trees will be saved.

[jemartin]

The three stages of a winning argument:

1. First they ignore you.

2. Then they laugh at you.

3. Lastly they attack you.

Change is coming folks, and it will balance the needs of all.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by jemartin

The three stages of a winning argument:

1. First they ignore you.

2. Then they laugh at you.

3. Lastly they attack you.

Change is coming folks, and it will balance the needs of all.

Really the majority of citizens want a stadium and arena.