Winnipeg Jets

[jmt18325]

I believe that the number of Suites is the one thing that can be expanded.

[1ajs]

if i remember corectly viking had mentioned there was some room for more box's

[newflyer]

From what I have heard there is room for 2 additional rows of seating and a few more skyboxes, without altering the building very much. The investment would be possible if/when the NHL returns.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Phoenix Coyotes to give away tickets if they win certain home gamesTHE CANADIAN PRESS
Oct 16, 3:11 pm EDT

PHOENIX - Looking to fill seats, the beleaguered Phoenix Coyotes are offering free tickets.


"Our 'join the pack' promotion … serves as a call to action, encouraging people to support the team by purchasing tickets and experiencing Coyotes hockey live," Coyotes president Doug Moss said in a statement.

• Video Link

[Cow-garian]

^ Should have put Jets on

[Jets4Life]

We need TrueViking's input on these questions....

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

We need TrueViking's input on these questions....

Jesus christ, he's already talked this subject to death, everyone needs to get over the fact it cant be expanded.

Originally Posted by trueviking

I work for the local architects of the MTS centre and I know that it was not built with any capability for expansion…..i am certain this was a cost benefit thing…..the ownership group has explored the possibility of adding a row of luxury suites to one side, which would add another 500-600 seats to the capacity…they may do this expansion regardless of the NHL coming or not because there is demand for it even for the Moose.


18500 would be way too big for Winnipeg…..if the NHL requires that many seats to work Winnipeg will never get a team….i do wish that it was at least 16500…but only for the sake of perception….the reality is that it doesn’t matter….anyone who claims 15000 is too small isn’t doing their homework.


Regarding the economics of a 15500 seat arena:

Firstly if you look at the chart above, almost 1/3 of the league is drawing less than 12000 per game so immediately a sold out 15000 seat arena is 20% more profitable as it is.

Secondly, if you consider what seats are lost in the MTS centre, the revenues are not significant at all….the 1500 missing seats are at the 300 level….these would generally be priced at say $20 - $30 each…..this would mean that the lost revenue would be something in the neighbourhood of $35 000 per game…and that is if they are all sold all the time….again, you can see from the chart above that the lost revenue is not significant….certainly not prohibitive…..its the difference between making $800k per game or $835k…..its not much more than a million dollars a season……most revenue comes from lower bowl and suites.

If you use the average ticket price for the league ($52), a 15 500 seat arena would generate $800 000/game which would be in the top half of the league…..certainly enough to be viable…..if you use the average ticket prices in Edmonton (closer to $60), another smaller arena that doesn’t have thousands of low priced seats to water down the average, a 15000 seat arena would generate $930 000 per game, which is more than acceptable.

The MTS centre is definitely a positive…..both hamilton and quebec still have to convince their governments to pony up that cash (far from easy) and it will be at least 3 years before they can use it even if they put shovels in the ground today ….the MTS centre was built before the huge spike in construction costs (doubled in 5 years)…..it would easily be a $250 million dollar building today and I’m not sure that it would get done at that cost….

i suspect that whoever will locate a team in Winnipeg, they will likely crunch the numbers and come to the same conclusion, so in the end the perception that it is too small isn’t really all that important….


As an aside, the MTS centre brought the Thomson family into the mix by a twist of fate…they owned the building (eatons) that used to be on the site….in lieu of money they took shares in both the AHL team and the arena itself…..since then, they have bought out all the other partners except one….this fateful connection might be the answer to our ownership issues as it is rumoured that they are backing this group that is working to bring a team to Winnipeg….so again the MTS centre was a positive….

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by WpG_GuY

Jesus christ, he's already talked this subject to death, everyone needs to get over the fact it cant be expanded.

Ummm, er, chillax?

BTW the post you so charmingly introduced in fact says it CAN be expanded. Just splitting hairs...

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by thurmas

if you guys register to the JETSOWNER.COM campaign chat area there are some great pics in the mts centre section of it regarding a tour of the facility and a discussion on possible mts centre expansion here is a link from a tour on the jetsowner.com forum for some tour pics:
http://returnofthejets.proboards.com...ay&thread=8152

You cannot be serious. Jetsowner.com has as much credibility as Natalie Pollock. having said that, I hope and pray that an NHL team returns to our city. Possibly if the arena had room to install an extra ring of luxury boxes on the upper deck, it can work. However, Ford's numbers just don't add up....

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

You cannot be serious. Jetsowner.com has as much credibility as Natalie Pollock. having said that, I hope and pray that an NHL team returns to our city. Possibly if the arena had room to install an extra ring of luxury boxes on the upper deck, it can work. However, Ford's numbers just don't add up....

And let's throw more millions of government money into this venture but not the CMHR right? Therein lies the hypocrisy.

[Cow-garian]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

Ummm, er, chillax?

BTW the post you so charmingly introduced in fact says it CAN be expanded. Just splitting hairs...

lol awesome, thanks for the info WpG_GuY. It answers what i had thought before. Adding 2000-3000 cheaper seats = $$ ; adding luxury suites = $$$$

Like I said before, here in Calgary they are definitely lowering capacity of the stadium by replacing upper level cheaper seats with luxury suites. Good for business bad for the average fan since its already hard enough to get a ticket at a reasonable price

A good NHL example is Madison Square Gardens in NYC. When they did semi-recent renovations, they replace mid-level seats with more luxury suites completely around the rink.

[Pegger5]

MTS CENTRE BEAMS: These are where the connection is made between the Roof & the Structure. These are NOT Solid Strand Beams as others have pointed out thus; if they actually needed to lift the roof, this is where the seperation is made possible. If these were solid beams from top to bottom, that would rule out any idea of actually Raising The Roof!


A couple of rows outward over the boxes without raising the roof... Also, Boxes can be added above the seats hanging from the roof over the upper deck..







You can see the room above the seats in the upper deck...


MTS CENTRE SUPPORT GIRDERS: These are the Steel girders that would be supporting the Upper Deck Level suites. They run from corner to corner of the MTS Centre. ( They certainly weren't put there to just hold snow on the roof! )



Source: http://returnofthejets.proboards.com...ay&thread=8152

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

You cannot be serious. Jetsowner.com has as much credibility as Natalie Pollock. having said that, I hope and pray that an NHL team returns to our city. Possibly if the arena had room to install an extra ring of luxury boxes on the upper deck, it can work. However, Ford's numbers just don't add up....

Where do you think he got these numbers? Prove him wrong Jet4Life. !!! I know chipman and company have visited owners in Ottawa and Edmonton a few times to look at their numbers.. thus why they (chipman and Co.) want to buy a team) You must know that Ford is close with Chipman. They talk on a regular basis.

To the naysayers,, do you really think David Thomson (richest guy in Canada) and Mark Chipman would actually buy a team without doing their due-dillegence.
Give them credit!... If they buy a team then believe it, If not then obviously it was not going to work. We willl see when the time comes... Till then...believe what you want...

[1ajs]

true pegger time will only tell

as for the beams above the loby if i am not mistaken theres hvac equitment up there

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

And let's throw more millions of government money into this venture but not the CMHR right? Therein lies the hypocrisy.

There is a huge difference. The majority of Winnipeggers now want the NHL to return to the city. It would easily outdraw the CMHR. It would require less public funds as well. How much did the feds allot for the MTS Centre to be built? $14 million, period, I believe. Unlike the CMHR, the MTS Centre was:

1. Built mainly with private funds
2. A huge success
3. Built with a sound business plan that was open to the public to view the details of the project
4. Necessary, as Winnipeg was losing concerts, and events to North Dakota due to the outdated Winnipeg Arena
5. Supported by the majority of Manitobans (with the exception of a few kooks who wanted to Save the Eatons building).


Additionally, if an NHL team was managed efficiently, with the community and corporations giving support for the team, it could even turn a profit.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Pegger5

Where do you think he got these numbers? Prove him wrong Jet4Life. !!! I know chipman and company have visited owners in Ottawa and Edmonton a few times to look at their numbers.. thus why they (chipman and Co.) want to buy a team) You must know that Ford is close with Chipman. They talk on a regular basis.

Talk on a regular basis? Let me guess. You heard that from Ford, not Chipman.

To the naysayers,, do you really think David Thomson (richest guy in Canada) and Mark Chipman would actually buy a team without doing their due-dillegence.
Give them credit!... If they buy a team then believe it, If not then obviously it was not going to work. We willl see when the time comes... Till then...believe what you want...

Can you point out where I did not give Chipman and Thompson credit? I believe a NHL team would work with the right business plan and the right amount of corporate support. It's too bad Pegger5 has the tendancy to put words in peoples mouths, or misquote them completely...

PS... I think I will side with TrueViking when it comes to what renovations are possible with the MTS Centre. Unlike yourself, Viking seems to know what he is talking about. As I have said before, Jetsowner.Com is not the most reliable site on the internet to obtain this kind of information.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Cow-garian

lol awesome, thanks for the info WpG_GuY. It answers what i had thought before. Adding 2000-3000 cheaper seats = $$ ; adding luxury suites = $$$$

Like I said before, here in Calgary they are definitely lowering capacity of the stadium by replacing upper level cheaper seats with luxury suites. Good for business bad for the average fan since its already hard enough to get a ticket at a reasonable price

A good NHL example is Madison Square Gardens in NYC. When they did semi-recent renovations, they replace mid-level seats with more luxury suites completely around the rink.

Great post.

I completely agree. Luxury suites are the way to go now days.

[SKYSTHELIMIT]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

There is a huge difference. The majority of Winnipeggers now want the NHL to return to the city. It would easily outdraw the CMHR. It would require less public funds as well. How much did the feds allot for the MTS Centre to be built? $14 million, period, I believe. Unlike the CMHR, the MTS Centre was:

1. Built mainly with private funds
2. A huge success
3. Built with a sound business plan that was open to the public to view the details of the project
4. Necessary, as Winnipeg was losing concerts, and events to North Dakota due to the outdated Winnipeg Arena
5. Supported by the majority of Manitobans (with the exception of a few kooks who wanted to Save the Eatons building).

Additionally, if an NHL team was managed efficiently, with the community and corporations giving support for the team, it could even turn a profit.

I wouldn't call a bunch of people who wanted to save a building that in one way or another had a connection to generations of Winnipeg families kooks. This building was also historicaly significant to the development of Portage Ave and Winnipeg.

I know you are trying to make a point and am not trying to atack your position but it was a shame to lose this piece of history.

[ILYR]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

There is a huge difference. The majority of Winnipeggers now want the NHL to return to the city. It would easily outdraw the CMHR. It would require less public funds as well. How much did the feds allot for the MTS Centre to be built? $14 million, period, I believe. Unlike the CMHR, the MTS Centre was:

1. Built mainly with private funds
2. A huge success
3. Built with a sound business plan that was open to the public to view the details of the project
4. Necessary, as Winnipeg was losing concerts, and events to North Dakota due to the outdated Winnipeg Arena
5. Supported by the majority of Manitobans (with the exception of a few kooks who wanted to Save the Eatons building).


Additionally, if an NHL team was managed efficiently, with the community and corporations giving support for the team, it could even turn a profit.

First off, I support a new NHL team and the CMHR.

However,
The MTS centre and a NHL team are private entertainment enterprises and should not include public funds. They are for profit.
The CMHR (like all other national, provincial, or local museums) are public institutions, and like other public institutions (such as universities, galleries, libraries, concert halls) require public funds. These are not for profit organizations.

Thus, we should really not be making comparisons about the two.

Additionally, if an NHL team did not turn a profit, I very much doubt that most people in this city would support giving tax dollars to help pay millionaire salaries.

[ILYR]

For all you stats fans out there, here is a plot of NHL attendance (X-axis) versus City Latitude (Y-axis). Apart from a few outliers there is quite a strong correlation. (Attendance so far this year)



1 Montreal 21273 45.55
2 Chicago 20271 41.86
3 Philadelphia 19369 39.95
4 Calgary 19289 51.33
5 Toronto 19252 43.72
6 Detroit 19183 42.33
7 St.Louis 19150 38.63
8 Vancouver 18810 49.25
9 Ottawa 18550 45.42
10 Buffalo 18443 42.90
11 Washington 18277 38.88
12 NYR 18200 40.81
13 Minnesota 18192 44.96
14 SanJose 17562 37.30
15 Dallas 17229 32.76
16 Pittsburgh 17079 40.43
17 Edmonton 16839 53.56
18 Boston 16756 42.36
19 NJ 16114 40.81
20 LA 15798 34.05
21 Colorado 15696 38.73
22 Florida 15655 26.16
23 Carolina 15629 35.21
24 Columbus 15563 39.98
25 Atlanta 15560 33.75
26 Anaheim 15253 33.83
27 TampaBay 14987 27.75
28 Nashville 13572 36.17
29 NYI 12065 40.80
30 Phoenix 10699 33.45