Halifax Stadium Discussion

[q12]

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by q12

That seems like a pretty open-ended and not terribly useful question.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

That seems like a pretty open-ended and not terribly useful question.

It's also a strange way to think about a stadium. There are going to be lots of capital projects of that scale that will only appeal to a minority of the population of the metropolitan area (or whoever answers on Twitter).

If 30% like to go to the library, 30% like a stadium, and 40% like to sit at home, is the ideal solution to build nothing? Not when the city can easily afford to satisfy all 3 preferences.

[Colin May]

I note the poster has conveniently omitted another twitter post showing a majority were opposed to public money being spent on a stadium.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

That seems like a pretty open-ended and not terribly useful question.

Yeahhhh. In general I support having a stadium in Halifax, but I'm not very fond of the current proposal for a stadium.

[ILoveHalifax]

I suggest if council is not happy with the current proposal or cannot negotiate to make it work, the city and province should just build a stadium and lease it to a CFL team. The city owns Scotia Bank Metro Center so why not a stadium

The city owns the library, and a bunch of rinks and lots of other infrastructure.

JUST BUILD A STADIUM AND LET'S GET IT DONE

Halifax is about to lose a chance to get a CFL team - how blind can council be to the value of a major sports team and the civic pride it would generate. National coverage across the country for every game and the possibility of hosting GREY CUP - think of the money that generates

[q12]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I note the poster has conveniently omitted another twitter post showing a majority were opposed to public money being spent on a stadium.

You could put a poll up on just about building anything and ask if you support public money being used and you would get the majority saying no.

So much public money is used to build things that barely get any attention, it's pretty f'n sad how people get their knickers in a knot about this stadium like its going bankrupt the country and bring on the apocalypse.

I'd be curious if the Halifax Metro Centre or the Halifax Forum got this much scrutiny when they were proposed...

The city was going to throw $60 million at the Forum built in 1927 which is a rotting pile of garbage.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by q12

You could put a poll up on just about building anything and ask if you support public money being used and you would get the majority saying no.

The standard way to shift polls around is to talk about value or cost.

Do you want a new stadium? Yes.
Do you want to pay for a new stadium? Of course not.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

You could put a poll up on just about building anything and ask if you support public money being used and you would get the majority saying no.

So much public money is used to build things that barely get any attention, it's pretty f'n sad how people get their knickers in a knot about this stadium like its going bankrupt the country and bring on the apocalypse.

I'd be curious if the Halifax Metro Centre or the Halifax Forum got this much scrutiny when they were proposed...

Agree.

The city was going to throw $60 million at the Forum built in 1927 which is a rotting pile of garbage.

Disagree. The Forum should be restored as a historical building that can continue to be used as intended. Apples and Oranges compared to a new stadium.

[q12]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Agree.
Disagree. The Forum should be restored as a historical building that can continue to be used as intended. Apples and Oranges compared to a new stadium.

You basically need to rip out EVERYTHING in the forum to make it worth while. You might as well build a modern building with similar architectural features and re-use maybe some notable pieces of the old forum.

Canada post next door would make a great stadium location if it moved out into an industrial park.

[Keith P.]

I've got an idea, let's sell or privatize the palatial library and use the funds for a stadium! Brilliant!!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I note the poster has conveniently omitted another twitter post showing a majority were opposed to public money being spent on a stadium.

Not really a surprise. The general public want govt to provide them with everything but never make the connection to how to pay for all that. See also: election campaigns.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

You basically need to rip out EVERYTHING in the forum to make it worth while. You might as well build a modern building with similar architectural features and re-use maybe some notable pieces of the old forum.

Not sure that this is the case, actually. Even if it were, any new building would likely be built with lower quality materials that would likely not age well. And... 'faux heritage' has been discussed here quite a bit, with the general consensus that it never comes out looking like much more than a cheap caricature of what it was intending to imitate.

You can replace any old building with a new one, but something is always lost when you remove the old one - i.e. things like history and character.

Again, what the heck does that have to do with a stadium? I want a stadium as much as the next guy, but I don't think it means that everything else should stop until the stadium is built. Sometimes I wish the 'enthusiasm' would come down a notch or two so that pro-stadium people don't start to look like activists - let's just focus on the positive please.

Canada post next door would make a great stadium location if it moved out into and industrial park.

I think it would as well.

[Keith P.]

There is also the Canada Lands parcel of former RCMP property further north just a bit that is currently proposed to be a mega-residential development. Ideal for a stadium given the tremendous access that site would have via Bayers Rd and Windsor St - you get the 102 traffic plus Dartmouth traffic converging right there.

[q12]

They completely gutted the Montreal forum and is no longer used as an arena.

My point is whatever it costs to renovate or whatever they do with the Halifax Forum, it will not be debated as long as this stadium has.

If the city had built a decent outdoor stadium decades ago we might be already talking about it's storied history...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I note the poster has conveniently omitted another twitter post showing a majority were opposed to public money being spent on a stadium.

And you seem to have conveniently forgotten about this poll.

Prospect of CFL Team in Atlantic Canada Excites Residents of Halifax
Insights West February 1st, 2018
Half of the city’s residents are in favour of using public funds to build a multi-purpose stadium for the new franchise.

Halifax, NS – Many residents of Halifax are looking forward to the Canadian Football League (CFL) establishing a team in the city, a new Insights West poll has found.

In the online survey of a representative sample of Halifax residents, 45% say they are “very excited” or “somewhat excited” about the possibility of having a CFL team in Halifax—including 49% of men and 52% of residents aged 18-to-34.

Having a CFL team in Halifax would require the construction of a new multi-purpose stadium. Half of Halifax residents (50%) support using public funds to build this facility, while 44% are opposed.

Women (53%) and residents aged 18-to-34 (56%) are more supportive of financing the stadium’s construction with public funds, while those aged 55 and over are more likely to oppose the idea (51%).



If a CFL team is indeed established in Halifax, half of residents (50%) say they are “very likely” or “somewhat likely” to attend at least one game a year, and over a third (36%) would buy merchandise with the team’s logo.

In addition, two-in-five Halifax residents (40%) are likely to watch the team’s games at home, 23% are likely to watch the team’s games at a bar or pub and 17% are likely to purchase season tickets.

Halifax residents are currently more likely to describe themselves as fans of the National Hockey League (NHL) (56%), Major League Baseball (MLB) (40%) and the National Football League (NFL) (32%) than the CFL (27%). Fewer residents consider themselves fans of the National Basketball Association (NBA) (23%) and Major League Soccer (MLS) (17%).

“At this stage, Halifax residents are not following the CFL at the same level as other North American sports leagues,” says Mario Canseco, Vice President, Public Affairs, at Insights West. “The presence of a CFL team in the city would change the situation dramatically, both in terms of event attendance and merchandise sales.”

About this Release:

Results are based on an online study conducted by Insights West from January 26 to January 30, 2018, among 402 residents of the Halifax Regional Municipality. The data has been statistically weighted according to Canadian census figures for age and gender in the Halifax Regional Municipality. The margin of error—which measures sample variability—is +/- 4.9 percentage points for the entire sample, nineteen times out of twenty. View the detailed data tabulations.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

They completely gutted the Montreal forum and is no longer used as an arena.

My point is whatever it costs to renovate or whatever they do with the Halifax Forum, it will not be debated as long as this stadium has.

If the city had built a decent outdoor stadium decades ago we might be already talking about it's storied history...

If Halifax Forum was refurbished with the type of imaginative thinking that was applied in the renovation of Maple Leaf Gardens, it could be an extraordinary project (I know, HF is not MLG, but the thought process is what I'm referring to - MLG was spectacularly repurposed to fit current needs while retaining the character and history of the building).

I don't disagree with your point, only to say that Halifax Forum should be renovated without huge debate (it's not clear that it will be, though), and the stadium should be a no-brainer - if the city isn't happy with the proposal, NEGOTIATE... it's how things get done. If this doesn't work out, then perhaps reach out to potential private sector partners, perhaps involve the province and the feds into the process - maybe Premier McNeil can cut some budget from his China trip to put towards the stadium... (). I'm just tired of this 'either or' mentality - Halifax needs to aim higher than to get mired down on whether to renovate its historic arena -or- build a stadium, etc. etc. etc.

Nobody would care about a stadium's storied history, as nobody cares about the storied history of anything around here. I think you know that based on how your framed the Forum initially... KP to chime in to confirm momentarily.

[q12]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Nobody would care about a stadium's storied history, as nobody cares about the storied history of anything around here. I think you know that based on how your framed the Forum initially... KP to chime in to confirm momentarily.

Yeah I agree, and I feel that sports professional or otherwise are seen by many in this city as a negative thing not worth investing public money into the facilities they use.

Even with the historic Wanderers Grounds, which has a great sports history, the "Friends of the commons" are whining about how it's no longer available to amateur sports, and should not be used by a pro sports team blah blah blah.

Except the HFX Wanderers are not the only ones using the grounds:

For the first time ever, the NSSL Premiership Finals are being held at the Halifax Wanderers Grounds. The women’s game gets underway at 3pm, followed by the men’s final at 5:30pm.
@CTVAtlantic
Cory McGraw
@McgrawCory

Aug 17, 2019

I wonder if 47% of Halifax loathe the fact that there is currently a stadium sitting on the Wanderers Grounds?

[OldDartmouthMark]

God only knows... I don’t see how anyone with a sliver of awareness could look at the Wanderers Grounds as being anything but a success!

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Not sure that this is the case, actually. Even if it were, any new building would likely be built with lower quality materials that would likely not age well. And... 'faux heritage' has been discussed here quite a bit, with the general consensus that it never comes out looking like much more than a cheap caricature of what it was intending to imitate.

You can replace any old building with a new one, but something is always lost when you remove the old one - i.e. things like history and character.

We had this debate in London 20 years ago with a historic streetscape on the site of the new arena. I think they did pretty good with it. Hard to tell the arena façade is actually a reproduction and not actually part of the original building.