SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[mello]

Originally Posted by eburress

"They include the $63 million redevelopment of the sports arena property in Point Loma, not expected until 2037..."


So the soonest we can begin to hope for a basketball team in San Diego is 2037? Awesome.

If San Diego lets an asset like that Sports Arena land just sit there as is till 2037 I will be shocked. I think we will start to see some movement on redeveloping that site and Qualcomm very soon. This city is broke and will realize it will have to start being more pro development in order to help its financial situation.

There is nowhere left to sprawl in this county and whenever a developer proposes something on rugged land like off Deer Springs Rd. in Escondido the NIMBY's come out with guns blazing. I believe the City/County and developers are seeing the writing on the wall and the only way to add those 10,000 housing units we need a year will be with vertical infill.

[eburress]

Originally Posted by mello

If San Diego lets an asset like that Sports Arena land just sit there as is till 2037 I will be shocked. I think we will start to see some movement on redeveloping that site and Qualcomm very soon. This city is broke and will realize it will have to start being more pro development in order to help its financial situation.

There is nowhere left to sprawl in this county and whenever a developer proposes something on rugged land like off Deer Springs Rd. in Escondido the NIMBY's come out with guns blazing. I believe the City/County and developers are seeing the writing on the wall and the only way to add those 10,000 housing units we need a year will be with vertical infill.

That (the need to be much more pro-development) is precisely why I would have expected the city to do something about a new airport at Miramar, but the force is strong with the NIMBYs and this city's government is gutless and inept. If the deadline for doing something with the arena is 2037, expect it to actually happen in 2067...or more likely never.

[mello]

E: I think you are off base here because I have seen it mentioned on a few occasions that the Qualcomm and Sports Arena properties will be leveraged to help get a new stadium built or in the financing of other civic projects. San Diego is sitting on a gold mine with those lands and all of the stuff off of Sea World Drive west of I - 5. The Spanos family are developers of apartment units and this County is in dire need of more rental housing so I'm sure a good deal can get worked out that benefits everyone.

[eburress]

Originally Posted by mello

E: I think you are off base here because I have seen it mentioned on a few occasions that the Qualcomm and Sports Arena properties will be leveraged to help get a new stadium built or in the financing of other civic projects. San Diego is sitting on a gold mine with those lands and all of the stuff off of Sea World Drive west of I - 5. The Spanos family are developers of apartment units and this County is in dire need of more rental housing so I'm sure a good deal can get worked out that benefits everyone.

That land may be a gold mine, but this city has to have the tact, smarts, balls (or whatever) to do something with it...and assuming the city possesses ANY of that, it also has to overcome the might of this city's NIMBYs. E.g., For how many years has all that land near Sea World sat undeveloped? How's this city's new international airport coming along? What about NBC? What about Lane Field? It goes on and on...

[mello]

^^^ Very true, regarding NIMBY's the only thing you listed they haven't tried to block is Lane Field. Pretty much everyone is in favor of that moving forward. At some point San Diego is going to have to find a way to circumvent the voters and NIMBY's and just move forward with things... I don't know how they can exactly do that but it seems like people here just want this city to float away into being a Jacksonville with their kids all living in Albuquerque and San Antonio because "We absolutely can't build anything more in this city... There's no water!!" Lol.

Can you imagine how much worse the wealth disparity is going to become in this County if dense infill developments continue to be blocked and nothing gets built... I mean where are people going to live? With their parents until they die and they inherent the residence?

[eburress]

Originally Posted by mello

^^^ Very true, regarding NIMBY's the only thing you listed they haven't tried to block is Lane Field. Pretty much everyone is in favor of that moving forward. At some point San Diego is going to have to find a way to circumvent the voters and NIMBY's and just move forward with things... I don't know how they can exactly do that but it seems like people here just want this city to float away into being a Jacksonville with their kids all living in Albuquerque and San Antonio because "We absolutely can't build anything more in this city... There's no water!!" Lol.

Can you imagine how much worse the wealth disparity is going to become in this County if dense infill developments continue to be blocked and nothing gets built... I mean where are people going to live? With their parents until they die and they inherent the residence?

hahaha - Temecula!

In other cities, where things do actually get done, the city governments seem to be much stronger and more capable. It also seems like the citizens are concerned with more than just their property values. I would be shocked to hear a San Diegan say "while this [project XYZ] isn't great for MY home's value, it's good/necessary for the city and for the region."

[mello]

Any thoughts on what they are concerned with besides prop values?

[HurricaneHugo]

My brother and I just bought a house in Sherman Heights (across the 5 from East Village) and our property values would soar if the Stadium deal gets done lol.

Get 'er done!

[eburress]

Originally Posted by mello

Any thoughts on what they are concerned with besides prop values?

It seems like that's all the majority of folks here care about.

[mello]

I'm very embarrassed guys, did you see this Minneapolis infill thread? http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=195465

Here is a metro area you can directly compare to SD, yes they have a bigger corporate presence but virtually the same metro area population and look at the quality of their infill projects! They didn't get all of the highrises downtown like we did but their 4 floor to midrise stuff is far superior. Take a look and let me know what you think.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by mello

I'm very embarrassed guys, did you see this Minneapolis infill thread? http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=195465

Here is a metro area you can directly compare to SD, yes they have a bigger corporate presence but virtually the same metro area population and look at the quality of their infill projects! They didn't get all of the highrises downtown like we did but their 4 floor to midrise stuff is far superior. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Portland has about a million less residents than San Diego, but it feels like it's 3 times bigger than San Diego. There's infill developments popping up everywhere from downtown to the communities North, South, East, West and beyond. San Diego just doesn't know what it's doing when it comes to urban planning.

[HurricaneHugo]

I should have minored in Urban Planning. =(

[eburress]

Originally Posted by Derek

Portland has about a million less residents than San Diego, but it feels like it's 3 times bigger than San Diego. There's infill developments popping up everywhere from downtown to the communities North, South, East, West and beyond. San Diego just doesn't know what it's doing when it comes to urban planning.

I'm sure it has something to do with how easy/hard it is to develop projects and the city's economy as well.

[eburress]

Originally Posted by mello

I'm very embarrassed guys, did you see this Minneapolis infill thread? http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=195465

Here is a metro area you can directly compare to SD, yes they have a bigger corporate presence but virtually the same metro area population and look at the quality of their infill projects! They didn't get all of the highrises downtown like we did but their 4 floor to midrise stuff is far superior. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Good find! I haven't been to Minneapolis in a few years and didn't realize how much they've built. It's very impressive, and yes, I really wish the quality of the structures built here in SD was on par with the projects in that thread. Minneapolis is a very cool city, by the way.

[tommaso]

I wish I didn't have to comment, but I am suffering from the cancer it is to hope for a sense of urbanity in San Diego. I believe S.D. has improved 1000% in that department since the year 2000. However, we are light years behind having the necessary population it would take to be urban. How many people live in downtown? How many of these people would have lived there say in the year 1999? Development is the crack child of the economy. So, as the economy recovers from its ulcers, so will the urban hope for San Diego. Will the next boom be as large and significant as the last one, or will we have to wait for a true jobs czar to head this city and diversify the economy here and create wealth broadly for the locals? I won't answer these questions because I have a bad feeling as to the extent my answers may not come to life for some time. I want change and I know we want it too. Only, change is a mindset and only the locals can decide who they want to be as a city. Surely, we would all love to have the mayor's powers and fix downtown. But, the task is firstly affected by the entrenched dictatorial behaviors of the corporate elite of San Diego. Do you think the Coronado, La Jolla set who dictate what happens in the area want to create opportunities for the general population when all they have to do to protect their wealth is to maintain the status quo?

[mello]

Tommaso: Some good points there, what I will tell you is that there are a couple of developers in this county who are really passionate about urban infill and realize that it is the future of this City/County. They know that downtown and the old core hoods of Uptown, North Park, Normal Heights, City Heights, Golden Hill, Barrio Logan, and Sherman Heights could probably accommodate up to 70,000 new housing units if done properly.

The problem with San Diego is where is the job growth going to come from to enable people to afford the rents developers will be asking to make a return on their investment. For example if a shiny new 15 floor building were built in Sherman Heights renting 2 bedrooms at 1300 a pop people would be all over it, but would the developer make a profit at that rental price? Would people be lining up to rent 2 bedrooms at 1800...

[tommaso]

The jobs aren't going to create themselves and the problem is systemic here. What will the Mayor of this city do to force business to come to this city and create sustainable jobs here that would sustain a family of four: mother, father and two children? All of the residents of this county need quality jobs and good jobs will never create themselves. Build this convention center expansion for half a billion, ok. Build a billion dollar football stadium for the Chargers, ok. Build an additional five hotels, ok. Add a few bio-tech jobs to the UTC area, ok. Where will all these unemployed military vets work? Where will all these unemployed skilled to highly skilled laborers work if the politicians just can't or even don't want to find a way to turn the economy around here and diversify the economy?

[SDfan]

I have a question for those of you who may be familiar. What exactly is going to happen to CCDC?

Are their meetings going to cease? Are they going to close their downtown offices? Their storefront? Are they going to morph into a new government entity within the city? What about their website?

I'm just curious and would love and informative answer.

[HurricaneHugo]

State clears San Diego redevelopment projects:

San Diego's plans for $6.5 billion in redevelopment projects have survived the first round of scrutiny by the state, but they still could be questioned later.

The city sent its list of what are called "enforceable obligations" -- bond debts, contracts, developer agreements and loan repayments -- to the state Department of Finance a week ago. The state had three days to signal it had questions, and if it did, it had 10 days to list its concerns.

Department spokesman H.D. Palmer said Tuesday that state auditors and analysts did not find anything to inquire about.

"We haven’t sent any objections yet on the San Diego enforceable obligation payment schedule submitted Jan. 31," Palmer said.

But San Diego isn't free and clear to move forward with building parks, fire stations, affordable housing and even the first phase of what could be a downtown home for the San Diego Chargers.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/feb/07/state-clears-citys-redevelopment-projects/

I feel like I'm watching baby turtles trying to make it to the ocean safely after hatching...

[tyleraf]

It seems Lane Field might be at least partially built! http://www.sddt.com/news/article.cfm?Sou...=Lane+Field+plan+undergoing+some+changes