LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

Oof, this is a pretty damning portrait of Metro's leadership and Stephanie Wiggins in particular. If this is all true, Wiggins needs to be fired immediately. It sounds like the former head of security Gina Osborn correctly identified that police and sheriff's deputies just stand around and don't do anything to increase safety, but Wiggins didn't want confrontation and didn't push those departments to do their jobs. What a waste of resources. An in-house Metro police department can't come soon enough. We need security and cops that care about the system and don't think that patrolling platforms, buses and trains is beneath them.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...man-at-station

Tbf, I don't really check on people who are slumped over or laying on the ground. I usually just assume they're sleeping.

That said, I do agree that there should be more law enforcement presence on public transit. Has Metro ever had its own police department?

[LAsam]

^ I thought Keanu may have been in Speed... but alas, he was LAPD.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

From the Los Angeles Times:

Metro rail is set to expand in the South Bay, and not everyone is happy
By Rachel Uranga
Staff Writer
May 23, 2024 9:40 AM PT

I don't know this area too well, but it seems like the Hawthorne alignment would make more sense, since it's more of a commercial corridor, whereas the existing freight ROW is nestled in between SFH neighborhoods. Obviously, it'd be cheaper to use the existing ROW, but I think you'd be sacrificing ridership and practicality. It'd also allow the opportunity for an infill station at some point in between Redondo Beach and South Bay Galleria station. I imagine this line would get more ridership with a South Bay Galleria station at the front of the mall, rather than the Redondo Beach Transit Center Station, located at the backside of a Target. You'd also have more opportunity to upzone and build some TOD using the Galleria parking lots.

Side note, is this pretty common in LA? I noticed this while street viewing around Hawthorne. Parking in the median of the street! How do the drivers even get out and walk over to the sidewalks?

[craigs]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Has Metro ever had its own police department?

Yes, from back when it was called the Southern California Rapid Transit District (RTD) until about 1993 or so.

[SoCalKid]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Tbf, I don't really check on people who are slumped over or laying on the ground. I usually just assume they're sleeping.

That said, I do agree that there should be more law enforcement presence on public transit. Has Metro ever had its own police department?

The dead person is the headline of the article, but not really the bulk of it. The parts I find more troubling are:

- "Osborn was fired in March shortly after reporting to the agency’s inspector general the alleged failure of sheriff’s deputies to patrol the E Line’s Downtown Santa Monica Station on March 15, she said. Her attorney Marc Greenberg says that during her two-year tenure as chief safety officer, she had a “glowing” personnel record and was fired for being a whistleblower."

- "By the time she was ousted, Osborn had become convinced the LAPD, the sheriff and Long Beach police were failing at their jobs, not being proactive enough to keep the buses and trains safe. And when Osborn championed creating an internal police department, she felt stymied by Metro Chief Executive Stephanie Wiggins."

-That day at 1:37 p.m. she texted Sheriff’s Capt. Shawn R. Kehoe to tell him that nobody had been at the station since 10 a.m. Eight days later, he responded in an email, she said. His two deputies were interviewing for internal positions, he said. But she suspected the officers were at a fundraising golf tournament at the Pico Rivera Golf Club for the department’s “Baker to Vegas” running team. The Baker run is an annual relay race held in the desert among law enforcement agencies.
“I don’t think the taxpayers are getting their money’s worth,” she said.

-Cleaning crew were getting sick because ancillary areas were full of human feces, fentanyl, etc. Osborn wanted to hire additional security officers to prevent that, Wiggins refused. Now Wiggins is massively increasing contracts with LAPD/Sheriff's department at a much higher cost, even though those departments have been documented to ignore their duties.

The story paints a picture of Wiggins as someone who cares more about maintaining political and public appearances than actually addressing Metro's issues.

[craigs]

I support the idea of Metro having its own police force again. Officers should be on the trains and buses as well as in the stations and at the stops.

[WrightCONCEPT]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

...But in the politics-driven era, there is pressure to build systems that radiate in all directions. The densest areas of metros are ignored after they get their one line in favor of building doomed lines to thinly-built areas.

When the funding and financing vehicle (pun intended) to is paid by voter approved sales taxes that makes it politically driven.

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by craigs

I support the idea of Metro having its own police force again. Officers should be on the trains and buses as well as in the stations and at the stops.

Did Metro ever have its own police force rather than contracting out to LAPD and LA County Sheriffs? I remember the debate about this when the first Metro rail lines were opening, and the consensus was that the LAPD and County Sheriffs would be more effective. In any case, the LA Times article suggests that that may no longer be the case. It might be time for a shake-up. Maybe a special-purpose transit police force would actually stay more focused on the security problems Metro currently has. Plus the transit cops may carry less baggage than the LAPD and County Sheriffs now have regarding "over-policing," baggage that inhibits their efforts to curb quality of life infractions more energetically.

[FromSD]

[QUOTE=homebucket;10210473]I don't know this area too well, but it seems like the Hawthorne alignment would make more sense, since it's more of a commercial corridor, whereas the existing freight ROW is nestled in between SFH neighborhoods. Obviously, it'd be cheaper to use the existing ROW, but I think you'd be sacrificing ridership and practicality. It'd also allow the opportunity for an infill station at some point in between Redondo Beach and South Bay Galleria station. I imagine this line would get more ridership with a South Bay Galleria station at the front of the mall, rather than the Redondo Beach Transit Center Station, located at the backside of a Target. You'd also have more opportunity to upzone and build some TOD using the Galleria parking lots.


The alignment along Hawthorne would presumably cost much more money because it would have to be elevated. I also read that the local cities want Metro to pay to widen Hawthorne to mitigate the congestion that they fear construction of the line will bring. That would also add substantial cost.

By the time this line gets built, who knows what the South Bay Galleria will look like. Two of its 3 department stores are already gone, and it would not be shocking if the third, Macy's, closed down in the future. There are plans to revamp the shopping center and add much needed housing. Much of that development will probably take place in the huge parking lots close to where the Metro ROW alignment is proposed. Plus the Metro ROW alignment directly serves Redondo Beach's newly built transit center. So the alignment on the Hawthorne Blvd. side of the shopping center isn't necessarily preferable.

As for an infill station between the current terminus of the C line and the Galleria, one was originally proposed but Lawndale, oddly enough, argued against it. So it was dropped from the plan. I guess Lawndale is as NIMBY as anywhere else in the South Bay.

The Metro ROW alignment calls for trenching the line where it passes behind single family houses in North Redondo Beach. This seems to be where much of the neighborhood opposition to the line is focused and the trenching should help alleviate their concerns. You can drive by houses on 182nd Street with lawn signs that say "No rail line on the Metro ROW." That's funny because these houses are right next to Inglewood Ave., one of the worst traffic sewers in the South Bay.

Both the Hawthorne Blvd. and Metro ROW alignments end at the same place in the middle of an industrial park in Torrance. This doesn't make any sense to me. It would have been better to spend a little more and have the line reach Downtown Torrance which has quite a bit of retail and shopping.

I hope the project is able to overcome the growing opposition to the line from politicians in Lawndale, Redondo Beach and Torrance. There is more talk of light rail bringing in "bad elements" and crime. There is significant sentiment in favor of spending the money instead on widening the 405...again. Money from LA Metro sales tax funds is currently being used to add lanes to the 405 between Western and Crenshaw. Some South Bay political leaders want more of this.

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Side note, is this pretty common in LA? I noticed this while street viewing around Hawthorne. Parking in the median of the street! How do the drivers even get out and walk over to the sidewalks?

This is the only place I've ever seen in LA County where there is parking in the median of a street. The parking extends all the way down to Artesia Blvd. The LA Pacific Electric Railway used to run down the middle of Hawthorne Blvd. in that area, which is probably why there was room enough in the median to add parking after the railway went away.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by FromSD

Did Metro ever have its own police force rather than contracting out to LAPD and LA County Sheriffs? I remember the debate about this when the first Metro rail lines were opening, and the consensus was that the LAPD and County Sheriffs would be more effective. In any case, the LA Times article suggests that that may no longer be the case. It might be time for a shake-up. Maybe a special-purpose transit police force would actually stay more focused on the security problems Metro currently has. Plus the transit cops may carry less baggage than the LAPD and County Sheriffs now have regarding "over-policing," baggage that inhibits their efforts to curb quality of life infractions more energetically.

Four posts before yours I posted a link to a site that goes over the history of the RTD/Metro police force and how/why it was folded into the LAPD in 1993. That was just a quick search result--I'm sure there is more information out there.

Originally Posted by FromSD

This is the only place I've ever seen in LA County where there is parking in the median of a street. The parking extends all the way down to Artesia Blvd. The LA Pacific Electric Railway used to run down the middle of Hawthorne Blvd. in that area, which is probably why there was room enough in the median to add parking after the railway went away.

I know of only one other place where there is median parking in LA County--Lancaster Boulevard in downtown Lancaster.

[Illithid Dude]

Assuming that some streets have a central strip of parking because those used to be street car right of ways and the local municipality decided that space would be better used as parking rather than a landscaped median.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Assuming that some streets have a central strip of parking because those used to be street car right of ways and the local municipality decided that space would be better used as parking rather than a landscaped median.

ChatGPT says that Lancaster did have Red Car service, so that would track. There was a 'new urbanist' remodeling of Lancaster Blvd., including the center median parking and tree planting. The transformed downtown blocks are within walking distance of the Lancaster Metrolink station and the area is served by local and regional buses.

Anecdotally, I've been through there briefly and it is by far the nicest "downtown" in northern Los Angeles County. The entire region could use more renovations like this.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by FromSD

Did Metro ever have its own police force rather than contracting out to LAPD and LA County Sheriffs? I remember the debate about this when the first Metro rail lines were opening, and the consensus was that the LAPD and County Sheriffs would be more effective. In any case, the LA Times article suggests that that may no longer be the case. It might be time for a shake-up. Maybe a special-purpose transit police force would actually stay more focused on the security problems Metro currently has. Plus the transit cops may carry less baggage than the LAPD and County Sheriffs now have regarding "over-policing," baggage that inhibits their efforts to curb quality of life infractions more energetically.

Not that I recall. RTD had their own police force but not metro. This means that trains never had metro police. As a civilian, my take is that LAPD and LASD are very good police agencies but not that good with transit. Same for LBPD. Having them focus on what they are built for and having a new force trained for transit will be good for everyone. Jmo

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by craigs

ChatGPT says that Lancaster did have Red Car service, so that would track. There was a 'new urbanist' remodeling of Lancaster Blvd., including the center median parking and tree planting. The transformed downtown blocks are within walking distance of the Lancaster Metrolink station and the area is served by local and regional buses.

Anecdotally, I've been through there briefly and it is by far the nicest "downtown" in northern Los Angeles County. The entire region could use more renovations like this.

The one time I visited Lancaster a few years ago, the wife was considering a teaching job at the adult prison. We drove around downtown and we definitely didn’t expect to have a positive view of it. I actually didn’t think Lancaster was all that bad, but it still wouldn’t be some where I would live. My wife had this lofty notion that she would take the metrolink to work up there but the was still a ways from the station. I suspect the prison may have had a shuttle for employees like some others like San Quinten.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Easy

Not that I recall. RTD had their own police force but not metro. This means that trains never had metro police. As a civilian, my take is that LAPD and LASD are very good police agencies but not that good with transit. Same for LBPD. Having them focus on what they are built for and having a new force trained for transit will be good for everyone. Jmo

LA's light rail trains were patrolled by RTD police for at least three years. Check the link I provided above.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by craigs

LA's light rail trains were patrolled by RTD police for at least three years. Check the link I provided above.

Good info. Thanks for bringing it up again. I missed it.

[SFBruin]

This is probably trivial, but: I feel like the LAX/Crenshaw line should be brown on maps, and the WSAB should be pink.

[jd3189]

Do you guys think it would be a better idea for LA to build streetcars/ light rail again through many of the major boulevards like Sunset, Wilshire, Hollywood, etc.?

The subway portions of the current metro would still be intact, but I think it would be more appropriate to rebuild many of the old streetcar lines on major streets to complement the underground lines. This time, however, the streetcars could have their own dedicated lanes on the middle of the street or next to the sidewalk, whatever is more convenient for pedestrians.

It would replace the existing buses that run through those areas which often get involved in traffic. Plus, I feel that this city was built for the streetcar and car originally and will still take some time to build a comprehensive heavy rail system. In the meantime, the streetcars would easily serve some of the denser nodes I see being established in many of the major streets.

[homebucket]

^ It's definitely not a bad idea. Since a lot of these boulevards used to have streetcars, there's definitely enough width on the streets to support street running, at grade light rail. Signal priority would also be an important measure to implement. It'd really just come down to a matter of cost and funding, which we know is rather limited in the US. Given the number and length of all these major corridors, it might be more cost effective and faster to implement to go with BRT lines, or a mixture of both, where the busiest lines get light rail, and the less busy ones are BRT.