Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[northernlights99]

I am pretty sure an announcement about the Big O will be made on a Friday. Bad news announcements are usually made on Fridays so politicians can escape media scrutiny while the news dies over the weekend.

Don't understand what is the point of spending so much money just to increase a stadium size by a few thousand seats, was done for Mcgill, now you want to do the same with Saputo Stadium ?

To do that and Also improve Olympic Stadium is a waste of money.

If they need more seating, you have a 56,000 seat stadium sitting there pending of course massive improvements.

The Whitecaps and Lions had thought of a new stadium in Surrey and opted to stay with BC Place. Why is this situation so different ? Same leagues involved.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Good ol' Northlands Coliseum aka Rexall Place, Skyreach Centre

Such a special building. Truly one of the most iconic arenas in Canadian sports history outshined only by maple leafs stadium and the forum.

Pacific Arena,saddledome,Pepsi colisee, Civic center and Winnipeg arena surely wont have the same legacy "rex" leaves behind. Although, when I'm sitting in rogers place I don't look around and think....Man I miss Rexall, It holds such a special place in my heart as an Oilers fan. One of the loudest most intimate arenas ever built.

Its So odd to me that arenas have lost that personality and specialness to the community. Arenas don't feel like they belong to the team like rexall did the Oilers and fans. A Modern arena like Scotiabank or rogers place, built in the right Location will last 100+ years, but will they share any sentimental value to the fans? Will their be a push to save scotiabank like their was maple leaf gardens? I doubt it.

I often wonder If a team like Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver or for that matter Winnipeg and Edmonton will ever play in a new arena again? These buildings will never crumble, They were build strong and flexible enough to reconfigure and expand, And with arenas costing upwards of a Billion, which canadian cities would even want to build?.

Lets be real the Only reason Ottawa is even pushing for a new arena is location. CTT could easily be rogers place with a 200M renovation. I remember watching an interview with melnyk when he said "these buildings aren't meant to last forever". I just laughed because they really are. Dry steel and concrete is really the recipe for longevity. Really they will just continue to get more structurally sound over time.

Calgary is a different story. Saddledome was built 10 years too early. It just missed the modern era of arena design.

Canada life Center is the Interesting one for me. 130M to Build, 130M to Renovate.....800M to Replace. Theirs no shot Winnipeg is ever gonna see another arena in our life time. We truly may be witnessing the end of Arena construction over the next decade or so. Whos going to construct an arena for 2 billion in 2040 that's not for downtown New York or LA?

[blueandgoldguy]

Well try telling that to people in the US. Oklahoma is replacing their 30 year arena with a new $900 million (or higher) arena. Nashville will be getting a $2 billion domed stadium to replace their perfectly adequate stadium. Texas recently replaced their perfectly fine 25 year old baseball stadium with a $1 billion domed stadium.

Rogers renovations to Rogers Centre will supposedly be good for 10 - 13 years at which point they will try to get funding for a new stadium elsewhere...no doubt trying to leverage the taxpayer for the majority of the funding. Good luck with that Rogers!

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Well try telling that to people in the US. Oklahoma is replacing their 30 year arena with a new $900 million (or higher) arena. Nashville will be getting a $2 billion domed stadium to replace their perfectly adequate stadium. Texas recently replaced their perfectly fine 25 year old baseball stadium with a $1 billion domed stadium.

Rogers renovations to Rogers Centre will supposedly be good for 10 - 13 years at which point they will try to get funding for a new stadium elsewhere...no doubt trying to leverage the taxpayer for the majority of the funding. Good luck with that Rogers!

Domes versus not. Turns out with climate change and tv schedules not tolerating rescheduling as much it is really worth it.

OKC built the smallest of ‘modern’ arenas.

I suspect Vancouver will be exploring for a new arena soonish. My guess would be that it goes on land they’ve envisioned for condos for a long time right nearby but that requires way too much environmental remediation plus city development fees to make viable for residential.

In Toronto I wonder if they start with a new roof over the entire site first if they can phase redevelopment without missing a season. Seattle’s ballpark when walking around it is noticeable that it is 4 or more buildings not a single monolith.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

In Toronto I wonder if they start with a new roof over the entire site first if they can phase redevelopment without missing a season. Seattle’s ballpark when walking around it is noticeable that it is 4 or more buildings not a single monolith.

I think they won't miss a season because they will build a completely new stadium on a new site. The current site is ideal with everything all built up around it but they would have to vacate for a few years to rebuild there. Short of another pandemic that forces them out for a few years, they aren't going to willingly go play in Buffalo for 3 seasons while they demolish and rebuild at the current site.

After they move to their new park, I can see MLSE (which will be entirely under Rogers by then I believe) building a new arena on the Rogers Centre site, and I could see them keeping both arenas operating. Renovate Scotiabank into a Raptors dedicated building (as it was originally designed for anyway), a new WNBA team and concerts, the new arena slightly larger for the Leafs and also for concerts. I don't think there is any doubt Toronto can support 2 large scale arenas and Rogers really will have no reason to cede business to Hamilton, who fancies their soon to be renovated arena as the Scotiabank overflow.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Such a special building. Truly one of the most iconic arenas in Canadian sports history outshined only by maple leafs stadium and the forum.

Pacific Arena,saddledome,Pepsi colisee, Civic center and Winnipeg arena surely wont have the same legacy "rex" leaves behind. Although, when I'm sitting in rogers place I don't look around and think....Man I miss Rexall, It holds such a special place in my heart as an Oilers fan. One of the loudest most intimate arenas ever built.

Its So odd to me that arenas have lost that personality and specialness to the community. Arenas don't feel like they belong to the team like rexall did the Oilers and fans. A Modern arena like Scotiabank or rogers place, built in the right Location will last 100+ years, but will they share any sentimental value to the fans? Will their be a push to save scotiabank like their was maple leaf gardens? I doubt it.

I often wonder If a team like Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver or for that matter Winnipeg and Edmonton will ever play in a new arena again? These buildings will never crumble, They were build strong and flexible enough to reconfigure and expand, And with arenas costing upwards of a Billion, which canadian cities would even want to build?.

Lets be real the Only reason Ottawa is even pushing for a new arena is location. CTT could easily be rogers place with a 200M renovation. I remember watching an interview with melnyk when he said "these buildings aren't meant to last forever". I just laughed because they really are. Dry steel and concrete is really the recipe for longevity. Really they will just continue to get more structurally sound over time.

Calgary is a different story. Saddledome was built 10 years too early. It just missed the modern era of arena design.

Canada life Center is the Interesting one for me. 130M to Build, 130M to Renovate.....800M to Replace. Theirs no shot Winnipeg is ever gonna see another arena in our life time. We truly may be witnessing the end of Arena construction over the next decade or so. Whos going to construct an arena for 2 billion in 2040 that's not for downtown New York or LA?

Rexall was the house that Gretzky built - that's the hook. Our attachment to a house is less of the house itself and more of the people and events who gave it soul.

Once one gets the right location and amenities to make some bucks, the soul might follow. Maybe not, though. Soul is about special moments, and genericized sport product is harder to get such moments from. Does the NHL see another dynasty on par with the Habs of the '70s or Oilers of the '80s? Does 'soulless' Skydome forget Joe Carter?

I'm curious about the multipurpose stadiums that did have teams with dynasties. Do people mourn the loss of them, or does the newfangled stadium make the legacy of the old one fade, even if the team is now mediocre?

Anyway, the formula for a multipurpose arena is pretty set in stone for the time being. After Calgary's questionable-need new build and Ottawa's long-running relocation process, NHL-scale arena building is pretty much a dead duck in this country for at least another generation. Which is fine IMO - the Atlanta/State of Georgia model of 'Need new facility every 20 years' always struck me as wasteful and unfocused frivolity.

[J.OT13]

It doesn't help that nowadays sports are more about flash and making money. Players being paid millions of dollars while underperforming, the advertisement everywhere in arenas and now on jerseys, in particular the gambling ads everywhere you turn, the soul of not just the buildings but the sports themselves has been killed by capitalism.

And yeah, of course, capitalism was always part of it, but I was less offended by advertisement of local businesses and everyday services and products over the B.S. that gets shoved down our throats today.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It doesn't help that nowadays sports are more about flash and making money. Players being paid millions of dollars while underperforming, the advertisement everywhere in arenas and now on jerseys, in particular the gambling ads everywhere you turn, the soul of not just the buildings but the sports themselves has been killed by capitalism.

And yeah, of course, capitalism was always part of it, but I was less offended by advertisement of local businesses and everyday services and products over the B.S. that gets shoved down our throats today.

But there is no law that says you have to buy into it. When I was a kid I was a huge sports fan, I knew and followed everything. I even used to score Expos games at home.

But as the athletes got richer and more entitled my interest dropped exponentially. I used to be the biggest booster of women's sports but they turned me off with the rugby 7s and women's national soccer team and their shenanigans. The only thing I can still stand to watch (although less than I used to) is the CFL because those guys are making realistic wages.

I have to say I did turn on the first PWHL game expecting the usual bullshit but was pleasantly surprised to see a long interview with Billie Jean King being very knowledgeable and just talking about the hockey, the girls and the league without the political BS. And because no one worked at turning me off I got to see a highly skilled game that gave me a much more favourable attitude towards the league.

You have a choice, exercise it.

[blueandgoldguy]

/\ /\ /\ Regarding the end of nhl-scale building, don't tell that to people in Saskatoon. They believe they are the verge of building a new arena downtown with a similar capacity to their current one. Plus a convention centre on top of that. I guess they think it will be easy to secure $500+ million in this economic environment.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

/\ /\ /\ Regarding the end of nhl-scale building, don't tell that to people in Saskatoon. They believe they are the verge of building a new arena downtown with a similar capacity to their current one. Plus a convention centre on top of that. I guess they think it will be easy to secure $500+ million in this economic environment.

Yep, I was going to say that too when I read that comment above. And while probably not quite NHL-size, there has been the occasional rumble out of Kitchener that they need something new and I wouldn't be shocked if they look to London and improve on Bud Gardens with something in the 12-13k range (which with 20/20 hindsight, London should have done).

Brantford is wanting to hang on to Hamilton's OHL team and has started the process for a new arena as well. So far, just a "let's hear what you guys want" type of thing from council to the residents. Won't be a major arena for sure, but I would bet on 6-7k at least. Something that they can partner up with the revamped Hamilton arena to be the secondary host of a World Juniors or something.

[WhipperSnapper]

They say 10 to 15 years for the Rogers renos. It means as much as a prebuilt condo's closing date.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

But there is no law that says you have to buy into it. When I was a kid I was a huge sports fan, I knew and followed everything. I even used to score Expos games at home.

But as the athletes got richer and more entitled my interest dropped exponentially. I used to be the biggest booster of women's sports but they turned me off with the rugby 7s and women's national soccer team and their shenanigans. The only thing I can still stand to watch (although less than I used to) is the CFL because those guys are making realistic wages.

I have to say I did turn on the first PWHL game expecting the usual bullshit but was pleasantly surprised to see a long interview with Billie Jean King being very knowledgeable and just talking about the hockey, the girls and the league without the political BS. And because no one worked at turning me off I got to see a highly skilled game that gave me a much more favourable attitude towards the league.

You have a choice, exercise it.

I've definitely lost interest in the NHL and the Sens. I don't recognize the team. The vibes are not what they used to be.

I'm excited about a move to Downtown, don't get me wrong. But it's more for City building than the team itself.

[northernlights99]

More issues around Olympic Stadium, they said they'd have an announcement about the Stadium's future in January and its month's end now, if they wait beyond this Friday then I think they will just demolish the Stadium, they have had Years to study this issue, first 2017 then 2019, each time the can was kicked further down the street, this additional issue with the esplanade will add considerable cost, not sure why the writer thinks they can just patch up 20,000 holes ?

In addition to repairing the 20-odd thousand holes in the Olympic Stadium roof and the 450-metre concrete ring along the roofline of the Big O, the Montreal Olympic Park Esplanade is also in dire need of repair.

Olympic Park spokesperson Cedric Essiminy said an engineering report found that corrective work is needed on part of the Olympic Park esplanade.

"Although the area in question shows significant damage, this is not due to a lack of strength, but rather to the incorrect positioning of expansion joints dating back to the construction of the parking lots," Essiminy said. "The affected area has been fenced off to prevent overloading."

Fencing around the around 1,500 square-foot pedestrian area, often the site of festivals and other events, at the western end of the esplanade, was installed in 2021.

Though work is needed, Essiminy said there has been no major impact on events on the esplanade and no parking spaces located underneath the area were condemned.

"There was no risk to the safety of users, and we could continue to use these spaces in complete safety," he said. "The only restriction emanating from the GBI report suggests limiting operating overloads on the esplanade in the sector."

Groupe Diamantex was awarded the contract to repair the section and will begin work that is scheduled to be completed in the summer. The work will require 232 parking spaces to be requisitioned.

The Olympic Park says it invests an average of $2.6 million per year to maintain its parking lots.

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/signific...port-1.6747039

[MalcolmTucker]

I wonder how much parking they have to contractually maintain for Saputo and the office tower?

Seems they are setting things up for a full demolition of the stadium, garage and esplanade. A subsidy of near $50 million a year can accomplish a lot.

[northernlights99]

except it will cost an 'estimated' Half a Billion anti-heros to demolish the Stadium (roof and bowl) section by section, and then you have NO Large stadium left (which itself is a problem), so Cabinet is facing a damned if you do, damned if you don't, either way the decision they make won't be popular with many people.

[thewave46]

So the government does nothing for another decade, unless the thing is acutely going to fall over.

It's worked for the past 15 years.

I don't see the rush here.

At worst, the stadium closes.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by northernlights99

except it will cost an 'estimated' Half a Billion anti-heros to demolish the Stadium (roof and bowl) section by section, and then you have NO Large stadium left (which itself is a problem), so Cabinet is facing a damned if you do, damned if you don't, either way the decision they make won't be popular with many people.

Well, they could just leave the stadium alone. In 2,000 years it would be a major tourism attraction, just like the Roman Coliseum.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by northernlights99

except it will cost an 'estimated' Half a Billion anti-heros to demolish the Stadium (roof and bowl) section by section, and then you have NO Large stadium left (which itself is a problem), so Cabinet is facing a damned if you do, damned if you don't, either way the decision they make won't be popular with many people.

What does the bolded part mean? I googled it and got a predictable result, is that all part of the troll?

[J.OT13]

While the Ottawa Senators ownership and National Capital Commission continue to work on negotiating a lease for the empty lands at LeBreton Flats, just west of Downtown between two rapid transit stations (three directions), the Mayor won't stop trying to sabotage the deal by pushing for a Downtown Downtown site, proposing a bunch of Federal properties, ironically, that aren't even for sale and would cost as much as an arena just to demolish.

They've been working on LeBreton for two years now, arena designs are probably well advanced, there's nothing to demolish, some decontamination and possibly far more land for development that would help finance the project.

Many of us think the current Mayor just has something against the NCC, maybe because they close some Parkways for active use over the summer (guy's entire campaign was about fighting the "war on cars"). Seems like a very passive-aggressive person.

https://theathletic.com/5236528/2024...enators-arena/

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

(guy's entire campaign was about fighting the "war on cars")

An easy way to win suburban votes.

As if LeBreton is sooooo far away from "downtown"